PDK vs Human for Pure Paladin?

[Khurse]

Hey all, just looking at the wiki and started thinking, does Human actually offer anything over PDK for a pure Paladin?

Looks like the PDK offers CHR to damage, as well as a free Bastard Sword prof, (I'd prefer DA, but if it' a free feat who cares) on top of th same number of bonus skillpoints, and the same human bonus feat.
Don't really care about the +1 Heart I'd need to burn, just wondering if I'm missing something that Human offers, or (for a Bastard Sword user) if PDK is strictly better.
(aside from the terrible character model PDK use of course)

[FranOhmsford]

Don't really care about the +1 Heart I'd need to burn,

Really?

Why waste a +1 Heart on a Pure PDK Paladin?

18 Pally / 2 Fighter gains you 2 extra Feats {3 if you're S+B} and access to T1+2 Kensai {which is to me a pretty weak Splash Tree unless you have at least 3 Fighter Levels for T3 Crit Mastery I'll admit}.

16 Pally / 4 Fighter gains you another Feat and access to T4 Kensai.

15 Pally / 4 Fighter / 1 FavSoul gets you a bunch more SP

Etc.


If you want to go Pure Pally then Human beats PDK simply because you don't have to waste a Heart.

Save that Heart for a build that deserves it.


Oh and what's wrong with Pure Bladeforged Pally?

[Arctigis]

Hey all, just looking at the wiki and started thinking, does Human actually offer anything over PDK for a pure Paladin?

Looks like the PDK offers CHR to damage, as well as a free Bastard Sword prof, (I'd prefer DA, but if it' a free feat who cares) on top of th same number of bonus skillpoints, and the same human bonus feat.
Don't really care about the +1 Heart I'd need to burn, just wondering if I'm missing something that Human offers, or (for a Bastard Sword user) if PDK is strictly better.
(aside from the terrible character model PDK use of course)

PDK Pal can go THF with a Maul and take the Silvanus line. A L6 feat gives you +2 threat range on Mauls.

[FranOhmsford]

PDK Pal can go THF with a Maul and take the Silvanus line. A L6 feat gives you +2 threat range on Mauls.

Still no reason to go Pure over 2 Fighter splash though

[Wipey]

PDK looks incredibly stupid. Main reason for me at least.
Vanguard sucks, either twf khops ( or Deathnips/Balizarde or Coronation/Mornh ) or thf falchion ( or SoS/ESoS) .

[Arctigis]

Still no reason to go Pure over 2 Fighter splash though

I didn't say it was. Human can't go the Silvanus route though - hence a reason for going PDK.
Agree with Wipey though, they look so terrible that I don't think I could play one for long.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

2 Fighter...{which is to me a pretty weak Splash Tree unless you have at least 3 Fighter Levels for T3 Crit Mastery I'll admit}.

thank you fran. made my night.

[FranOhmsford]

thank you fran. made my night.

Misquoting me?

You know I was talking about the Kensai Tree NOT Fighter as a whole right?

Tier 1 and 2 Kensai = Pretty much nothing!

TBF Stalwart has a similar problem in that you need to be Lvl 3 to take Stalwart Defense and the Tier 1+2 stuff in the tree is basically stuff that's no use to you without taking Stalwart Defense and switching said stance on.

I'm NOT denigrating the 2 Fighter Splash because 3 Feats {2 if you don't care about Tower Shield Prof} is still HUGE!
BUT if you're going to use the TREES you really want at least 3 Fighter Levels!

[Crysae]

PDK's Charisma to damage is a bad idea on Paladins imo, unless you're going full tactics and want to run with KTA. Otherwise you lose out on Divine Might. The main reason to go PDK over human is if you're THF and would like to use the extra stacking 2 to maul threat range. People will tell you there aren't good named mauls, but everyone uses thunderforged and greensteel at end game anyway, so who really cares? While leveling a Fury of the Flame or a Drow Maul are pretty decent options. If you're going TWF with Khopeshes or Vanguard, then it doesnt really matter too much which you go.

If you go Vanguard I would NOT splash, the capstone is really good.

If you're mainly in KoTC, splashing comes down to how valuable the capstone is to you. 2 levels of fighter nets you 2 feats and low hanging haste boost. Pure nets you 4 charisma, 10 melee power, 2 to hit, and an extra 2d6 light damage. Your weapons also count as good for DR purposes, but if you're running in Divine Crusader this becomes less important anyway.

Personally I like pure, paladins are low on feats but you also don't really need that many. Your weapon line (TWF/THF), Imp Crit, Power Attack and Cleave if you want access to Lay Waste, Precision and Khopesh prof if you're TWF, Shield Mastery line and Tower Shield prof if you're Vanguard (you can skip tower shield prof and scroll master's touch but I really hate doing that so if you want to save a feat slot you're welcome to do that).

[Ralmeth]

Hey all, just looking at the wiki and started thinking, does Human actually offer anything over PDK for a pure Paladin?

Yes. Humans actually look decent, while PDKs look horrid. I've tried to roll up a PDK and just cannot get beyond this. If there was an option to make your PDK look human, I would TR into one for a life to check it out. Running with mauls would be pretty cool. As for spending your enhancements, there are so many good ones in the class trees that you don't miss out by not spending too many in a racial tree, so I wouldn't consider this a disadvantage for going human. If anything, I think spending a bunch of points in the PDK tree means you're going to miss out elsewhere. It's worth considering how you're going to spend all of your points at level 20.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Misquoting me?

You know I was talking about the Kensai Tree NOT Fighter as a whole right?

Tier 1 and 2 Kensai = Pretty much nothing!

TBF Stalwart has a similar problem in that you need to be Lvl 3 to take Stalwart Defense and the Tier 1+2 stuff in the tree is basically stuff that's no use to you without taking Stalwart Defense and switching said stance on.

I'm NOT denigrating the 2 Fighter Splash because 3 Feats {2 if you don't care about Tower Shield Prof} is still HUGE!
BUT if you're going to use the TREES you really want at least 3 Fighter Levels!

fran, it doesnt matter what i thought you were saying or whether i was right or wrong about that.

the fact that you would even suggest that spending a whole class level on any class simply for potential access to +3 seeker is worth it is just hilarious. other benefits or concerns are irrelevant. that is what you said and that is what is funny.

dont take it personally.

[FranOhmsford]

fran, it doesnt matter what i thought you were saying or whether i was right or wrong about that.

the fact that you would even suggest that spending a whole class level on any class simply for potential access to +3 seeker is worth it is just hilarious. other benefits or concerns are irrelevant. that is what you said and that is what is funny.

dont take it personally.

Well tbf I'd do 3 Fighter Levels for Stalwart Defense and/or to get to 4 Fighter Levels but I figured Crit Mastery was the only thing worth having i.e. not just an AP Sink in Kensai's first 3 tiers so OK Kensai's just a bad splash tree overall unless you're going all the way to t5.

Note I'm not saying Fighter's a bad splash, I'm saying Kensai has little worth having on a low splash.


P.S. it's not just +3 seeker either - You need to spend 10 points to get to that and it's an accumulation of benefits none of which are much cop on their own {well ok I'll give you Haste Boost.}.

[Ralmeth]

Just to throw my 2 copper pieces in on build ideas. The OP said he wanted pure, and IMHO the best pure Paladin is Vanguard/Defender, but if I was going to TR into PDK (if there was an option to make your character look human), I would take advantage of that first level of Fighter and go 14 Paladin / 6 Fighter, with a focus on THF DPS using mauls primarily, with Kensai as your primary tree, but a bunch of points into the Knight and Defender trees for more DPS, heal amp, defenses and run speed. I'm currently running this split and it's amazingly good, primarily because of how good tier 5 and the 3rd core of Kensai is. It's definitely a viable option, though some time is needed to plan out a leveling plan, in order to get the best order for your feats, skills, etc.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Human.




And IF you want to add lvls of ftr, go w/ a 12/8 or 14/6. Lvl 6 ftr gets the DC's a nice buff.