Basic unarmed monk build guide

[jwelch]

I'm on my second "straight" Aasimar life, going to do one more than dump over to Scourge for the permabost to DoubleStrike, which should put mine at around 60% in air stance.

In terms of enhancements, I'm doing 8 points in Aasmiar (gives me 2 more points of Wis + all the healing hands) and divine purpose (Fallen for the temp Doublestrike boost), 31 points in Henshin so I can get to Cauldron of Flame, which is REALLY nice for three reasons:

1) Dodge boost, YAY
2) it can do serious damage, even in reaper runs
3) It can do serious damage through locked doors and gates. So bonus!

and 41 points in Shintao.

I'll do three lives as scourge to get the extra 3% doublestrike and 6% offhand doublestrike. (I run Air stance a lot, this is a handy thing.)

in water stance, at cap as an aasimar, I should have a wisdom of around 74-75 or so, which makes most of my special abilities pretty reliable even in reaper runs, and I have 3 fairly guaranteed "stuns": stunning fist, kukan-do and jade tomb.

what I tend to do on higher reaper runs is snipe around the edges. I find a stray, stun him, then take him out, and move on.

My primary weapon are triple pos LGS wraps for the HP boost and I added the displacement, so I have two rounds of that for two minutes each, plus a pot of perma displacement that lasts for a minute. I've a set of triple pos gloves that I need to add displacement to, which will give me, if needed, 9 minutes of full displacement in a fight. Does. not. Suck.

Obviously, I bias my monk for DC's and Doublestrike, and it works really well across a range of runs. With Aasimar, I've been maxing wis out on character creation, which makes stunning fist highly useful even at level 2, and it should make EIN a thing of joy. Honestly, even on reaper runs where things like EIN are nerfed in terms of instakill, having a "freeze the damned room for six seconds" with an almost instantaneous "cast" time is pretty damned handy in a pitched fight. Six seconds is a lot of time to get things back under control.

[peng]

First is, unless I'm missing something, there is no way to get 15-20 crit range on wraps outside of some weird Pally/Divine Crusader mashup.

Base wraps start at 20/x2, antipode and adamantine knuckles start at 18-20/x2. With imp crit and empty hand mastery that changes to 18-20/x3 base, 16-20/x3 antipode/knuckles. Divine crusader's celestial champion (t5) or dreadnought's pulverizer (t6, works with wraps, despite saying it doesn't) brings us to 17-20/x3 base, 15-20/x3 antipode/knuckles.

[DrawingGuy]

I'm on my second "straight" Aasimar life, going to do one more than dump over to Scourge for the permabost to DoubleStrike, which should put mine at around 60% in air stance.

In terms of enhancements, I'm doing 8 points in Aasmiar (gives me 2 more points of Wis + all the healing hands) and divine purpose (Fallen for the temp Doublestrike boost), 31 points in Henshin so I can get to Cauldron of Flame, which is REALLY nice for three reasons:

1) Dodge boost, YAY
2) it can do serious damage, even in reaper runs
3) It can do serious damage through locked doors and gates. So bonus!

and 41 points in Shintao.

I'll do three lives as scourge to get the extra 3% doublestrike and 6% offhand doublestrike. (I run Air stance a lot, this is a handy thing.)

in water stance, at cap as an aasimar, I should have a wisdom of around 74-75 or so, which makes most of my special abilities pretty reliable even in reaper runs, and I have 3 fairly guaranteed "stuns": stunning fist, kukan-do and jade tomb.

what I tend to do on higher reaper runs is snipe around the edges. I find a stray, stun him, then take him out, and move on.

My primary weapon are triple pos LGS wraps for the HP boost and I added the displacement, so I have two rounds of that for two minutes each, plus a pot of perma displacement that lasts for a minute. I've a set of triple pos gloves that I need to add displacement to, which will give me, if needed, 9 minutes of full displacement in a fight. Does. not. Suck.

Obviously, I bias my monk for DC's and Doublestrike, and it works really well across a range of runs. With Aasimar, I've been maxing wis out on character creation, which makes stunning fist highly useful even at level 2, and it should make EIN a thing of joy. Honestly, even on reaper runs where things like EIN are nerfed in terms of instakill, having a "freeze the damned room for six seconds" with an almost instantaneous "cast" time is pretty damned handy in a pitched fight. Six seconds is a lot of time to get things back under control.

The Cauldron bonuses to Dodge and PRR/MRR only works while wielding a staff (and I tested it to confirm), so as a handwrap user gains no benefit other than the fact that it does damage and can proc through gates/doors like Fireball does. The core also having 10 MP and 3 PRR makes it a very nice core. However the problem is the cost of obtaining it. First is some rather wasteful spending of AP to reach the needed 30 AP - The first 11 AP nets you 30 MP, 9 PRR, animal form (I usually go Tortoise for 20 HP and 4 Concentration), and other useful little things like saves and ki strikes. The next AP gains you 10 more MP, 3 PRR, 2d4 fire damage that scales, 1 WIS, and +3 dodge cap. The last 10 gains you 15 MP, 1 WIS, and a Cauldron move that takes extremely restrictive movement to really use (and I personally consider its DPS to be meh) - 5 of that MP can be snagged with just 2 AP over the 21 spend.

Ultimately that makes an 11 AP spend into Henshin extremely strong and essentially a "must" and should be one of your first spends as you level. After that you have to ask yourself "what does this spend give me compared to elsewhere?" I do this by breaking AP spends into chunks:

11 AP into Ninja Spy gains you DEX to hit and damage, short sword proficiency, extra shuri throws, 1d6 SA damage, dodge, a Ki Strike, 2 dodge cap + 2 reflex saves + 2 Concentration or 1d6 more SA damage, along with a 25% incorporeal clicky that is 15% higher than any other source and requires no item. The first half is only a 6 AP spend and I also consider a "must" for any non STR build (and is still strong for when you need to range and open up offhand options when ranging). The next 2 AP is pretty strong as a Ki Strike translates to either DPS (either directly with Fists of Iron or indirectly with Eagle Claw Attack (fort bypass and AC lowering) or Unbalancing Strike (giving yourself or the tank SA damage)) or Survival with Knock on the Sky (which is a huge deal on big damage raids or Reaper). I suggest getting all the Ki Strikes you can, leaving 3 AP. You can spend 2 AP on 1d6 SA damage, which scales 150% with MP, so is well worth the cost, or on Agility which gives Dodge Cap + Reflex saves + Concentration. In short, though, between Ki Strikes, SA damage, DEX access and ranged utility, and defensive buffs, I consider the spend into Ninja Spy to easily outweigh one of the latter 10 AP spends into Henshin. More AP into Ninja Spy will allow for more SA die, full 3 into Agility, and WIS. But I wouldn't go past a 24 AP spend for an Unarmed build as the cores are not worth it and No Mercy is too expensive for what it is (why it costs twice as much as the Rogue version is beyond me...).

12 AP into Vistani gains you Deflect Arrows, 5% doublestrike, Undead Favored Enemy, Haste Boost, and T3 Mist Stalker for 6 PRR/MRR, and 25% neg absorption. Haste Boost is even stronger on fast attack stances like Unarmed, so it is very nice throughout Heroic levels, and come Epic is still very useful for non LD users and can open up options when in LD. The first 3 AP gains you 3 PRR/MRR and 25% neg absorption so is well worth it. The next 3 AP gains you Undead Favored Enemy and Deflect Arrows feat. The final 6 AP gains you 3 PRR/MRR, Haste Boost, and 5% doublestrike (which also includes offhand). Weapon Versatility to let you use MP for shuri throws is another well spent AP. Going deeper into the tree is really only worth it if you want to open up knives/throwing knives as a weapon choice, but if you do, it is amazing in that regard. Being how strong the defensive boost of 3 AP into Vistani is, I'd suggest it for every non-necro build. The next 3 is a question of a Favored Enemy Undead and Deflect Arrows is worth it for you - I need to play with it more, but if I find myself loving it, I will likely shift AP spends around to always fit 6 AP vs 3 AP into it. The last 5 I think is def worth it pre epics, but is more questionable for those that run exclusively LD.


TL;DR - I think your AP can be better spent than 31 into Henshin as an Unarmed build.

@ peng - Didn't realize that the Wrap update changed those weapons... shoulda looked before opening my mouth. That puts them high on the list for leveling, but they wouldn't hold up at end-game. Still sad they completely deleted the crit profile and multiplier bonus on the new Duality wraps.

[Hamagawi]

Realize that in high level Reaper your DPS is scaled back significantly, so Vorpal procs actually become useful. But even minor damage and the DR bypass is still nice. Ravenloft will use that DR bypass, but without the Vorpal proc or harder Reaper difficulties where your damage scaling makes DR a real issue, it will probably be one of the first to drop in favor of other feats. I will still take it myself, though.

I do think you're underestimating Violence Begets Violence a bit. First is, unless I'm missing something, there is no way to get 15-20 crit range on wraps outside of some weird Pally/Divine Crusader mashup. Second is, if you are tanking, VBV can be trigger quite quickly and be a reliable crit chance increase. Though if your party has proper CC or you are not taking aggro, then the enhancement falls flat rather quickly. So in short, if you take a lot of aggro to trigger VBV often, it is worth it. Otherwise it indeed is a good one to drop.

As for race options, I've always considered Deep Gnome to be one of the top contenders. It is a WIS based race, and the INT bonus helps with KtA making it one of the best for a DC based pure build. In addition it has useful abilities like dodging through enemies, increased dodge cap, and other little useful enhancements like scroll mastery, PRR, and AC. Due to Humans being able to get +3 WIS with action boost use, the DC gap is small for those that use LD, making most of Deep Gnomes advantages defensive only, which is tough to argue the loss of a feat for (especially since it costs AP to gain that). Aasimar and Human are very close in the debate of which is best - it's a feat + skill points + action boost vs self healing. The Human action boost lost a lot of luster with the nerf blocking simultaneous use making it just a weaker boost that you can get extremely cheap. The more racial TRs you have, the stronger Aasimar is as once you can afford Ascendant Bond without pulling too much from your other trees, I feel that it is a clear winner. The Bond bonuses are strong, and Purpose can last up to 4 minutes per rest that DO stack with Action Boosts.

Personally I'm struggling between Protector and Fallen. Protector gives me a HAMP/POS clicky along with 10% HP, +3 to Saves (4 to Will), and 10 PRR - 10% HP is a pretty huge deal when you are tanking, and every little bit of PRR helps. Fallen, however, gives +2 Tactics, 5% doublestrike clicky, 10 MP, and a free vuln stacker. As one that works hard for an effective QP, +2 Tactics matters, plus Vuln Stacking in Reaper matters as TF weapons are a thing of the past meaning most will not be applying it, and swap-maintaining it yourself is a pain... so ultimately can translate to a 20% DPS increase for the party. Both have something I really care about - I, of course, will be playing both to see which I like more.

I'm not very experienced with reaper above 1 skulls but I'd been assuming that all damage including on hit effects got scaled down not just base damage, or is the vorpal damage somehow immune from reaper damage scaling? If so that would definitely boost the power of the feat. Also I was not trying to downplay the value of dr bypass, just that it should be seen as a dr bypass feat rather than a general dps increasing feat.

As far as VBV I see that peng already responded to the subject of how to get a 15-20 crit range though as you mentioned there are no endgame viable weapons with that profile after the duality nerf, as to the enhancement itself it has been some time since I've tried it out and as I recall my experience was that unless I had a large number of monsters hitting me (2-4 was not sufficient) the buff counter never got past 1-2 stacks before being reset by a critical which didn't seem worthwhile. Keep in mind that the buff reaching 2 stacks is not at all the same as having +2 threat range, though the exact math is incredibly complicated and situation dependent, I must admit my assessment of the feats performance is largely based on gut feeling. My conclusion at the time was that any time I could afford to have enough stuff hitting me that VBV was good the content was easy enough that my enhancement loadout wasn't that important anyways. I have improved my characters defenses since then though, I may give it another shot this life and see if I like it any better.

[jwelch]

The Cauldron bonuses to Dodge and PRR/MRR only works while wielding a staff (and I tested it to confirm), so as a handwrap user gains no benefit other than the fact that it does damage and can proc through gates/doors like Fireball does. The core also having 10 MP and 3 PRR makes it a very nice core.

<shrug> It does what I wish it to do.

However the problem is the cost of obtaining it. First is some rather wasteful spending of AP to reach the needed 30 AP - The first 11 AP nets you 30 MP, 9 PRR, animal form (I usually go Tortoise for 20 HP and 4 Concentration), and other useful little things like saves and ki strikes. The next AP gains you 10 more MP, 3 PRR, 2d4 fire damage that scales, 1 WIS, and +3 dodge cap. The last 10 gains you 15 MP, 1 WIS, and a Cauldron move that takes extremely restrictive movement to really use (and I personally consider its DPS to be meh) - 5 of that MP can be snagged with just 2 AP over the 21 spend.

Since Wisdom is my primary stat, the boosts are well worth the effort for my build. I also find much of it to be anything but "wasteful". The four elemental words, when you apply them fast enough, and I can with my setup, are highly useful in combat, as are the +3 to combat DCs. As you said, there's tortoise form, concentration boost FTW, and contemplation, which boosts passive Ki regen by 1, another highly useful feature. Embrace the Void isn't constantly useful, but when I need it, it's a big help, and as I play a wisdom-focused monk, the +2 to WIS I get from the tree is crucial to my needs and play style. The only thing I "dump" AP into here is lighting the candle. it can be useful, but the ki hit is a pain. Focus is one that I like, both personally and for the party boost. So for my use, henshin is a real bonus.

Ultimately that makes an 11 AP spend into Henshin extremely strong and essentially a "must" and should be one of your first spends as you level. After that you have to ask yourself "what does this spend give me compared to elsewhere?" I do this by breaking AP spends into chunks:

I don't even come close to doing it that way. In fact, it's really one of my last builds after Shintao and (now) Aasimar. Works rather well for me.

11 AP into Ninja Spy gains you DEX to hit and damage, short sword proficiency, extra shuri throws, 1d6 SA damage, dodge, a Ki Strike, 2 dodge cap + 2 reflex saves + 2 Concentration or 1d6 more SA damage, along with a 25% incorporeal clicky that is 15% higher than any other source and requires no item. The first half is only a 6 AP spend and I also consider a "must" for any non STR build (and is still strong for when you need to range and open up offhand options when ranging). The next 2 AP is pretty strong as a Ki Strike translates to either DPS (either directly with Fists of Iron or indirectly with Eagle Claw Attack (fort bypass and AC lowering) or Unbalancing Strike (giving yourself or the tank SA damage)) or Survival with Knock on the Sky (which is a huge deal on big damage raids or Reaper). I suggest getting all the Ki Strikes you can, leaving 3 AP. You can spend 2 AP on 1d6 SA damage, which scales 150% with MP, so is well worth the cost, or on Agility which gives Dodge Cap + Reflex saves + Concentration. In short, though, between Ki Strikes, SA damage, DEX access and ranged utility, and defensive buffs, I consider the spend into Ninja Spy to easily outweigh one of the latter 10 AP spends into Henshin. More AP into Ninja Spy will allow for more SA die, full 3 into Agility, and WIS. But I wouldn't go past a 24 AP spend for an Unarmed build as the cores are not worth it and No Mercy is too expensive for what it is (why it costs twice as much as the Rogue version is beyond me...).

Dex & Str are tertiary stats for me after Wis and Con, so using Dex to hit and damage is of little interest to me. I get more use out of my stuns both for my own kill rate and to help the party. None of the Core abilities for Ninja really do it for me, i've ignored the entire tree forever. Doesn't cause me a lick of problems. Agility is nice, but I get the dodge bonus + ki regen out of henshin, so I'll call that a win for henshin. I don't play sneak attacks, in fact, I more like to be a distraction as needed, so none of the sneak attack bits are particularly useful for me. I'm sure you get a lot out of it for your play style, but that tree's always been a bit of a waste for my play style.

12 AP into Vistani gains you Deflect Arrows, 5% doublestrike, Undead Favored Enemy, Haste Boost, and T3 Mist Stalker for 6 PRR/MRR, and 25% neg absorption. Haste Boost is even stronger on fast attack stances like Unarmed, so it is very nice throughout Heroic levels, and come Epic is still very useful for non LD users and can open up options when in LD. The first 3 AP gains you 3 PRR/MRR and 25% neg absorption so is well worth it. The next 3 AP gains you Undead Favored Enemy and Deflect Arrows feat. The final 6 AP gains you 3 PRR/MRR, Haste Boost, and 5% doublestrike (which also includes offhand). Weapon Versatility to let you use MP for shuri throws is another well spent AP. Going deeper into the tree is really only worth it if you want to open up knives/throwing knives as a weapon choice, but if you do, it is amazing in that regard. Being how strong the defensive boost of 3 AP into Vistani is, I'd suggest it for every non-necro build. The next 3 is a question of a Favored Enemy Undead and Deflect Arrows is worth it for you - I need to play with it more, but if I find myself loving it, I will likely shift AP spends around to always fit 6 AP vs 3 AP into it. The last 5 I think is def worth it pre epics, but is more questionable for those that run exclusively LD.

That's all nice, but I like what I get out of Aasimar, in particular the wis. boost (+3 including Racial reincarnations), the additional +2 to wis from the core abilities and healing hands. I don't run in LD, I run exclusively in GMoF, so that's not a factor for me. The favored enemy I get from Scourge, Undead, is specifically useful since Undead aren't stunnable, and it takes zero AP, it's a racial trait. My speed of movement/combat boosts are handled nicely by standard monk feats and gear, and I get a 5% doublestrke boost from Scourge, so again, the usefulness of Vistani is meh. Shuriken for me are only for distance, and I don't actually care how little damage I do with them. It's yet to be a factor, since I do so well up close. But that's how I bias the build. Between dodge, evasion and all the rest, deflect arrows is a nonissue. I've no interest in knives, my handwrap collection is remarkably good at handling my damaging needs, and I don't need to waste an AP to get it.

TL;DR - I think your AP can be better spent than 31 into Henshin as an Unarmed build.

tl;dr You're not me, you don't know really, anything about me or how I play or approach the game, so your advice, while well-intentioned is unintentionally so far off the mark it can't even see the mark. Been cranking this particular monk since the class dropped, it's remarkably well-tuned for my needs, and I do rather well across a range of run levels with it. You have your way of doing things and that works well for you. Booyah.

[DrawingGuy]

<shrug> It does what I wish it to do.

I guess if all you wanted it to do was some DPS... I for one was sad to see I gained no defensive bonuses without staff. And where the other moves are not really worth the cast time and Ki cost in general melee combat, Cauldron is. But it does go back to AP costs for me.

Since Wisdom is my primary stat, the boosts are well worth the effort for my build. I also find much of it to be anything but "wasteful". The four elemental words, when you apply them fast enough, and I can with my setup, are highly useful in combat, as are the +3 to combat DCs. As you said, there's tortoise form, concentration boost FTW, and contemplation, which boosts passive Ki regen by 1, another highly useful feature. Embrace the Void isn't constantly useful, but when I need it, it's a big help, and as I play a wisdom-focused monk, the +2 to WIS I get from the tree is crucial to my needs and play style. The only thing I "dump" AP into here is lighting the candle. it can be useful, but the ki hit is a pain. Focus is one that I like, both personally and for the party boost. So for my use, henshin is a real bonus.

Focus is indeed very nice, but most of the things you've listed could be obtained with a spend of 11 - 23 AP. While I do think at least 2-3 AP is a total waste getting to 31, again a better way to look at it is what you gain for a chunk of AP vs spending that elsewhere. A few notes on what you have:
- Elemental Words are indeed nice, but really only on bosses, and the spamming it takes to maintain the vuln stacking ruins any finisher control you may want to have. Electric for Storm's Harness and Fire to support the most common Warlocks. Haven't crunched numbers yet, but likely swapping to Duality, so will either swap to Acid for the other warlocks I can help or just drop one entirely... but I see the moves as for elemental Vuln and only need to cover what the party needs. Another advantage of including Ninja Spy in your spends is Ki Strikes. Unbalancing Strike gives yourself or the tank SA damage - I will go into detail on the importance of this on my reply to your Ninja Spy comments, but based on those it is obvious you either underestimate the DPS SA damage provides or don't realize how it applies. Knock On The Sky is -20% damage - it was a big deal in raids with hard hitting bosses, and is an even bigger deal with Reaper. Eagle Claw can stack to 15% fort bypass for the whole party (see SA comments) as well as -15 AC which actually doubles to -30 due to the way the formula works... so anyone that was not already hitting on everything but a 1 would see a 5-10% full hit chance helping the whole party again. Fists of Iron is a great DPS move, but I prefer party support and consider all 3 Ki Strikes important... and you can't do that going into your important Aasimar tree and 31/41.
- Mystic Training only applies to Finishing Moves, not combat DCs. This is helpful to Dark Monks but basically useless on Light Monks making every AP into it a "waste".
- I also play a DC build that main stats Wisdom - I pushed 90s, and after my Racial TRs are complete and the power creep of items, I should be able to break 100. I take every point of WIS I can from the trees and min-maxing it takes a spread... but it is also a balance. Much of a tree's utility is more important making it pretty low on the list. Henshin has nothing better to reach 30 with for an unarmed so is a no-brainer, but Shintao I have to decide between the WIS or Conditioning + Ki Shout.

Note that I was NOT saying that Henshin was a useless tree... just that I think the AP can be better spread out for more gain than just into Henshin.

Dex & Str are tertiary stats for me after Wis and Con, so using Dex to hit and damage is of little interest to me. I get more use out of my stuns both for my own kill rate and to help the party. None of the Core abilities for Ninja really do it for me, i've ignored the entire tree forever. Doesn't cause me a lick of problems. Agility is nice, but I get the dodge bonus + ki regen out of henshin, so I'll call that a win for henshin. I don't play sneak attacks, in fact, I more like to be a distraction as needed, so none of the sneak attack bits are particularly useful for me. I'm sure you get a lot out of it for your play style, but that tree's always been a bit of a waste for my play style.

Using DEX saves you from the investment into STR at all. That freed up gear can be used for other useful abilities. It also seriously boosts Shuri damage by applying your DEX to damage as well as extra Shuri throws. There are times you have to range: destroying gems and pillars in certain raids, killing people on ledges that you can't reach, or whenever there are mechanics you need to avoid and you don't want to drop your DPS to 0. Avoiding the need to use STR, though, I consider a big enough deal.

You can get BOTH Agility and Embrace the Void by doing a smaller spend into Henshin.

There is no "playing sneak attacks" - Sneak Attack damage is flat out DPS that triggers as long as you qualify for it. That qualification does not come from attacking from stealth, but many other ways. You can read the Wiki for the full list: http://ddowiki.com/page/Sneak_attack
As a Monk, you'll get SA damage whenever someone else has aggro, whenever you stun a mob (which is your whole shtick with Stunning Fist and Jade attacks + Dire Charge), and whenever you use Unbalancing Strike. It does not take being a Rogue or investing deep into the Ninja Spy for SA damage to be nice. You can get items that can give +24 SA damage and +11 SA damage. As SA damage is 150% Melee Power scaling, that 35 damage turns turns into 35 * 1.5 * 1.5 (saying you have 150 MP, which you can do better than) = 79 damage per hit. That applies to every strike, double strike, and off hand/off hand double strike. That is an amount that matters. Rogue past lives and SA die from Ninja Spy and any better MP values can easily see that number climb past 100. It is also why Scion of Ethereal is the "DPS" Legendary choice as it makes Hide apply to SA for another large damage chunk. It's discussed in this very thread. That said, SA damage is important. You should try to fit on items as it is some of the biggest DPS boost items you can get, and you want Unbalancing Strikes so you can be sure everyone is getting that damage when you can't just stun the target.

That's all nice, but I like what I get out of Aasimar, in particular the wis. boost (+3 including Racial reincarnations), the additional +2 to wis from the core abilities and healing hands. I don't run in LD, I run exclusively in GMoF, so that's not a factor for me. The favored enemy I get from Scourge, Undead, is specifically useful since Undead aren't stunnable, and it takes zero AP, it's a racial trait. My speed of movement/combat boosts are handled nicely by standard monk feats and gear, and I get a 5% doublestrke boost from Scourge, so again, the usefulness of Vistani is meh. Shuriken for me are only for distance, and I don't actually care how little damage I do with them. It's yet to be a factor, since I do so well up close. But that's how I bias the build. Between dodge, evasion and all the rest, deflect arrows is a nonissue. I've no interest in knives, my handwrap collection is remarkably good at handling my damaging needs, and I don't need to waste an AP to get it.

It is indeed all about evaluating the gains of investing AP into one area vs another. The Undead Favored Enemy not being needed is indeed one more reason to not invest into the tree. Not wanting to invest into Knife use is a reason to not invest heavily into the tree. Haste Boost is still very nice, that 5% doublestrike stacks, and Deflect Arrows can be a big deal on high level Reapers... but obviously if that does not outweigh other gains, it's not worth the investment. Though I still hold that the 3 AP spend for 25% neg absorption and 3 PRR/MRR is
cheap and worthwhile.

I don't even come close to doing it that way. In fact, it's really one of my last builds after Shintao and (now) Aasimar. Works rather well for me.

tl;dr You're not me, you don't know really, anything about me or how I play or approach the game, so your advice, while well-intentioned is unintentionally so far off the mark it can't even see the mark. Been cranking this particular monk since the class dropped, it's remarkably well-tuned for my needs, and I do rather well across a range of run levels with it. You have your way of doing things and that works well for you. Booyah.

The points I was making was not to say you were "wrong" or that your build sucked, but rather that I believe there are ways it can be improved, and my walls of text are to explain my reasoning, not to try and argue or disprove you. However that does indeed not matter one iota what I say if you are happy with how your build plays. The game is about fun, and that is all it should ever be about. My own monk was created the instant the servers went live with the class release and has gone through many iterations (many LRs, TRs, feat swaps, etc that are in the triple digits). I've gone 41/31 and countless other AP spreads. I want to and try to help people with their own builds, but I know for a fact that what one build works amazingly for one person can be terrible for another. It's good that you found a way that works for you.

[DrawingGuy]

I'm not very experienced with reaper above 1 skulls but I'd been assuming that all damage including on hit effects got scaled down not just base damage, or is the vorpal damage somehow immune from reaper damage scaling? If so that would definitely boost the power of the feat. Also I was not trying to downplay the value of dr bypass, just that it should be seen as a dr bypass feat rather than a general dps increasing feat.

As far as VBV I see that peng already responded to the subject of how to get a 15-20 crit range though as you mentioned there are no endgame viable weapons with that profile after the duality nerf, as to the enhancement itself it has been some time since I've tried it out and as I recall my experience was that unless I had a large number of monsters hitting me (2-4 was not sufficient) the buff counter never got past 1-2 stacks before being reset by a critical which didn't seem worthwhile. Keep in mind that the buff reaching 2 stacks is not at all the same as having +2 threat range, though the exact math is incredibly complicated and situation dependent, I must admit my assessment of the feats performance is largely based on gut feeling. My conclusion at the time was that any time I could afford to have enough stuff hitting me that VBV was good the content was easy enough that my enhancement loadout wasn't that important anyways. I have improved my characters defenses since then though, I may give it another shot this life and see if I like it any better.

That is a key difference. Pretty much all post-MOTU quests are very high density and I build my toon to be able to take the aggro of the dozen+ mob clusters you can run across. In those situations VBV is great. When you don't take a lot of aggro or that aggro is consistently CCed, it does indeed fall flat. That really becomes the linchpin of whether this is a feat you keep or drop to have your Shintao spend as low as possible. For me it matters, for you it may not. Dropping VBV has the secondary advantage of also being able to drop Instinctive Defense freeing up 3 AP.

[jwelch]

Thank you for your input.

I guess if all you wanted it to do was some DPS... I for one was sad to see I gained no defensive bonuses without staff. And where the other moves are not really worth the cast time and Ki cost in general melee combat, Cauldron is. But it does go back to AP costs for me.




Focus is indeed very nice, but most of the things you've listed could be obtained with a spend of 11 - 23 AP. While I do think at least 2-3 AP is a total waste getting to 31, again a better way to look at it is what you gain for a chunk of AP vs spending that elsewhere. A few notes on what you have:
- Elemental Words are indeed nice, but really only on bosses, and the spamming it takes to maintain the vuln stacking ruins any finisher control you may want to have. Electric for Storm's Harness and Fire to support the most common Warlocks. Haven't crunched numbers yet, but likely swapping to Duality, so will either swap to Acid for the other warlocks I can help or just drop one entirely... but I see the moves as for elemental Vuln and only need to cover what the party needs. Another advantage of including Ninja Spy in your spends is Ki Strikes. Unbalancing Strike gives yourself or the tank SA damage - I will go into detail on the importance of this on my reply to your Ninja Spy comments, but based on those it is obvious you either underestimate the DPS SA damage provides or don't realize how it applies. Knock On The Sky is -20% damage - it was a big deal in raids with hard hitting bosses, and is an even bigger deal with Reaper. Eagle Claw can stack to 15% fort bypass for the whole party (see SA comments) as well as -15 AC which actually doubles to -30 due to the way the formula works... so anyone that was not already hitting on everything but a 1 would see a 5-10% full hit chance helping the whole party again. Fists of Iron is a great DPS move, but I prefer party support and consider all 3 Ki Strikes important... and you can't do that going into your important Aasimar tree and 31/41.
- Mystic Training only applies to Finishing Moves, not combat DCs. This is helpful to Dark Monks but basically useless on Light Monks making every AP into it a "waste".
- I also play a DC build that main stats Wisdom - I pushed 90s, and after my Racial TRs are complete and the power creep of items, I should be able to break 100. I take every point of WIS I can from the trees and min-maxing it takes a spread... but it is also a balance. Much of a tree's utility is more important making it pretty low on the list. Henshin has nothing better to reach 30 with for an unarmed so is a no-brainer, but Shintao I have to decide between the WIS or Conditioning + Ki Shout.

Note that I was NOT saying that Henshin was a useless tree... just that I think the AP can be better spread out for more gain than just into Henshin.




Using DEX saves you from the investment into STR at all. That freed up gear can be used for other useful abilities. It also seriously boosts Shuri damage by applying your DEX to damage as well as extra Shuri throws. There are times you have to range: destroying gems and pillars in certain raids, killing people on ledges that you can't reach, or whenever there are mechanics you need to avoid and you don't want to drop your DPS to 0. Avoiding the need to use STR, though, I consider a big enough deal.

You can get BOTH Agility and Embrace the Void by doing a smaller spend into Henshin.

There is no "playing sneak attacks" - Sneak Attack damage is flat out DPS that triggers as long as you qualify for it. That qualification does not come from attacking from stealth, but many other ways. You can read the Wiki for the full list: http://ddowiki.com/page/Sneak_attack
As a Monk, you'll get SA damage whenever someone else has aggro, whenever you stun a mob (which is your whole shtick with Stunning Fist and Jade attacks + Dire Charge), and whenever you use Unbalancing Strike. It does not take being a Rogue or investing deep into the Ninja Spy for SA damage to be nice. You can get items that can give +24 SA damage and +11 SA damage. As SA damage is 150% Melee Power scaling, that 35 damage turns turns into 35 * 1.5 * 1.5 (saying you have 150 MP, which you can do better than) = 79 damage per hit. That applies to every strike, double strike, and off hand/off hand double strike. That is an amount that matters. Rogue past lives and SA die from Ninja Spy and any better MP values can easily see that number climb past 100. It is also why Scion of Ethereal is the "DPS" Legendary choice as it makes Hide apply to SA for another large damage chunk. It's discussed in this very thread. That said, SA damage is important. You should try to fit on items as it is some of the biggest DPS boost items you can get, and you want Unbalancing Strikes so you can be sure everyone is getting that damage when you can't just stun the target.




It is indeed all about evaluating the gains of investing AP into one area vs another. The Undead Favored Enemy not being needed is indeed one more reason to not invest into the tree. Not wanting to invest into Knife use is a reason to not invest heavily into the tree. Haste Boost is still very nice, that 5% doublestrike stacks, and Deflect Arrows can be a big deal on high level Reapers... but obviously if that does not outweigh other gains, it's not worth the investment. Though I still hold that the 3 AP spend for 25% neg absorption and 3 PRR/MRR is
cheap and worthwhile.






The points I was making was not to say you were "wrong" or that your build sucked, but rather that I believe there are ways it can be improved, and my walls of text are to explain my reasoning, not to try and argue or disprove you. However that does indeed not matter one iota what I say if you are happy with how your build plays. The game is about fun, and that is all it should ever be about. My own monk was created the instant the servers went live with the class release and has gone through many iterations (many LRs, TRs, feat swaps, etc that are in the triple digits). I've gone 41/31 and countless other AP spreads. I want to and try to help people with their own builds, but I know for a fact that what one build works amazingly for one person can be terrible for another. It's good that you found a way that works for you.

[BloodWynn]

Howdy, first of all, thanks for sharing your build. I'm having a blast playing it thru a 2nd life atm, and it really feels like the type of monk I enjoy playing. One question however is regarding the Master's Blitz. I have read postings stating the Dodge one is worthless due to already nearly being at cap, and others saying the 30 PRR is like wearing pajamas (which I'm already sporting!).

Pure Human Unarmed Shintao

Legendary Dreadnought

1. Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
2. Constitution
3. Critical Damage III, Haste Boost III
4. (none)
5. Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
6. Master's Blitz, Pulverizer

So I guess I'm confused on which would work out better for this build?

Thanks again!

[Gargoyle69]

Howdy, first of all, thanks for sharing your build. I'm having a blast playing it thru a 2nd life atm, and it really feels like the type of monk I enjoy playing. One question however is regarding the Master's Blitz. I have read postings stating the Dodge one is worthless due to already nearly being at cap, and others saying the 30 PRR is like wearing pajamas (which I'm already sporting!).

So I guess I'm confused on which would work out better for this build?

Thanks again!

Short answer: The PRR version, always.

Longer answer: The people who told you the dodge does not break the dodge cap are correct, and at later levels you will find many more ways to raise dodge than dodge cap, so will find you will be capped on dodge fairly easily and any further dodge that does not bypass the cap is entirely useless to you. More PRR however is always valuable as it does not suffer diminishing returns and the less damage you take the harder content you can do. Even if you are not dodge capped, unless you are going for a max avoidance 10-skull reaper tank build, smoother more predictable incoming damage is generally preferred to spikier less predictable damage. If they one day fix the dodge version to ignore the dodge cap, then it will be a different story.

[DrawingGuy]

I don't think they'll ever have Master's Blitz ignore dodge cap like was originally planned. With the dodge cap increase options provided to Rogue and Monk + the addition of dodge cap through Grim Barricade and Filigrees, it is possible to make 70 permanent dodge builds. Add it 30 from Blitz, and you'll have 100% dodge permanently. Any efforts it would take to bypass them would utterly bypass normal builds making dodge a pretty useless stat... especially if they consider the fact that the same 100% dodge build would have access to Improved Uncanny Dodge which is a 50% dodge clicky they would simply use to counter any crown that would not just ignore more than 50% dodge. I don't want 0 damage Toughness Feat tanks be the only way to be a tank in high reapers.

All that really boils down to Gargoyle being right - the PRR version is the only good option for Master's Blitz. Especially with the power creep of items, a single dodge item is likely all you need to cap your dodge, and being a few % short is not worth giving up 30 PRR for.

[Krushyn]

Are the builds in the orginal post still good? about to try my 4th life and was thinking of trying out a light monk. Anything that should be adjusted for a character with a + 6 supreme tome?

[Hobgoblin]

Are the builds in the orginal post still good? about to try my 4th life and was thinking of trying out a light monk. Anything that should be adjusted for a character with a + 6 supreme tome?

its still good


i use it on a "first life" human

hes decent

[Hobgoblin]

so followed this build faithfully for about 6 epic lives.

my only question that i can see changing is vorpal strikes

i can keep it. it works fine in the build.

but is there something better?

blinding speed would increase my saves and permahaste is always nice

epic reflexs is nice.

i could boost will or fort saves ... but seems unneccessary

i could go with a dex or wis increase, but not neccessary

finally, if i think of a feat to get rid of i could go with epic toughness.

thoughts?

[peng]

so followed this build faithfully for about 6 epic lives.

my only question that i can see changing is vorpal strikes

i can keep it. it works fine in the build.

but is there something better?

blinding speed would increase my saves and permahaste is always nice

epic reflexs is nice.

i could boost will or fort saves ... but seems unneccessary

i could go with a dex or wis increase, but not neccessary

finally, if i think of a feat to get rid of i could go with epic toughness.

thoughts?

Last time I checked, vorpal strikes was bugged with handwraps. It adds slashing bypass, but no vorpal proc. It does work properly when fighting truly unarmed. Not sure we encounter enough zombies to make it worth it.

For now, I think vorpal strikes is not worth it.

If you can fit striding (quiver of alacrity) and crafted melee alacrity (15% at level 20) , there's no need for blinding speed, unless you swap to shuriken a lot. The rest of those seem like good choices. Past life monk, deflect arrows, or if you like having a shuri option, 10k stars and/or shuriken expertise are good too.

Not sure which version of the build you're using, but if you couldn't fit precision or epic damage reduction before, now you can. Or if you're human, you could lose the extra feat by using another race. Aasimar for the extra wis, DCs, and healing hands is pretty awesome, or grind racial past lives.