Upcoming Systems Changes for U36

[Maelodic]

So I guess epic starts at level 26 now?

If you're going to nerf to the ground things that are too powerful in heroics, you really need to start with epic past life feats. And Cannith crafting. And green steel crafting. I've been in plenty of groups where toons with non-warlock classes zipped through the content without any trouble, there was NO reason for the warlock nerfing. Meanwhile, the warlocks are still pretty weak in epics, now VERY weak before 26 and only a bit better after. Update 36 will make me want to play DDO a lot less, time to start looking for a new game.

So you take the most popular class and nerf it heavily? What game has that ever been good for???

I want to say that it's only the most popular class because it's easy to past life grind on it.

[Lynnabel]

Wow don't know how I missed this first time reading: No mention of cleric/fvs tree changes, cleric domains, turn undead changes or a divine pass at all - is this intentional? Has this been shifted to another update or later U36 patch?

Divine Pass was always not U36. U36 is Arti stuff, QoL stuff, and balance/aggro/stealth etc for systems. Ravenloft is not U36 or the divine pass, it's something else as well. All is proceeding as planned!

[Morroiel]

Divine Pass was always not U36. U36 is Arti stuff, QoL stuff, and balance/aggro/stealth etc for systems. Ravenloft is not U36 or the divine pass, it's something else as well. All is proceeding as planned!

Ah I see sorry, faulty memory could have sworn a dev mentioned it was slotted for U36. Accidentally got my hopes up to play a fvs soon-ish.

[Hutoth]

Hello!

Hello!

Internal and live data gathering has led to the conclusion that Warlock DPS is unquestionably too high in Heroic.

this space intentionally left blank

Drow and Deep Gnome's Spell Resistance now stacks with all other sources of Spell Resistance.

Great! Although maybe too great.

The majority of item-based sources of Spell Resistance have had their values reduced by about 1/3.

Less great. Maybe too less great.

Ward against Weird is now 5/30/60.

Is that meant to be 15/30/60?

changes are being made to Aggro and Stealth.

Needs more work.

Theory: Solid B
Prac: TBC

Thanks Steel!

[ComicRelief]

*snip*
Area of Effect Spells
With U36, most Area of Effect spells cast by enemies (such as Ice Storm and Web) now have visible indicators of their boundaries on the ground. This should make more clear where enemy effects begin and end, and improve players' ability to analyze the battlefield.

Personally, I don't think this is needed (even if they do have something like this over in LotRO). That said, I'm not necessarily opposed to it, either.

[ComicRelief]

Divine Pass was always not U36. U36 is Arti stuff, QoL stuff, and balance/aggro/stealth etc for systems. Ravenloft is not U36 or the divine pass, it's something else as well. All is proceeding as planned!

*Tsk* *Tsk* You forgot to add an evil laugh...BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Theolin]

I would like to congratulate you all on making ES warlocks completely useless in epics, way to go, thanks.

You basically removed 1/3 of the damage a ES could do with the "warlock" part of their build, and they were far from the top dps out there.

As to where I am coming from: I have probably one of the most powerful ES warlocks on the server I play on & I know what builds completely ROLF stomp me in terms of power. I know it looks like they are very powerful when built correctly & if you know how to mix it them with the correct stuff from epic destinies.(big hint here I get 50%-60% of my damage from Destiny abilities not warlock abilities)

I can tell you this I will now not be playing warlocks any more(I don't like the other trees for play-style) as you took them from doable for high level EEs to such a time sync that there are many many better builds to play. You have moved them from tier 2 DPS to tier 3 .... congrats ......

[Gratch]

Personally, I don't think this is needed (even if they do have something like this over in LotRO). That said, I'm not necessarily opposed to it, either.

I'd make AOE pull-me-out-of-the-game-outlines be an optional setting. Enabled by default for newbs. Though guess maybe it depends on how close it melds to the spell fx coloring/look or if it's vibrant neon purple outlining (with blue-hair, rocket boots, and GIANT eyes).

[Paisheng]

No mention of monks SR also stacking? Monk's ki and mind discipline don't take effect til level 13, but at such any race then could receive further stacking by taking 13 levels of monk. Isn't their long training of mental focus equivalent to racial resistance? I hope you include them in the U36 update for having stacking SR!

[Mr_Helmet]

Nerfs are a good start, but monks need some nerfing as well.

And fix wolves, they've been broken forever.

[zehnvhex]

+1 to what others have said about warlock. Kudos for finally dealing with the OP nature of them in heroics, minus several million cool points for not buffing them at end game as compensation.

Buck up boys, looks like 6 arti/6 fighter gonna be the new heroic ezmoad hotness.

[Gargoyle69]

This was obviously some of the super-secret, mega-exciting stuff that Lynnabel was saying she couldn't talk about :-)

Arcane Archer

Great to see this fix. Shame for my shuricannon's, but good to see the gap being closed as it should be.

Warlocks

I think this is well done. Delaying some of the damage until epics would help address the issue in heroic levels without bringing their damage down in epics. Also, toning down the damage from ES is a good move IMHO, as the defensiveness from ES should be a meaningful choice that contrasts with the higher damage from the other trees, this change enhances that choice.

Spell Resistance

This looks great for Gnomes & Drow, but what about monks ? Will their SR act in the same way ? I certainly hope so ..... Otherwise monk SR will be not in a good place whereas the others will be.

Aggro & Stealth

I'm so excited to hear you say this, that's is FANTASTIC news. Now I think we just need a few more things and I think stealth will return to a good place: 1) a look at how mobs communicate aggro information / location to their allies. Mobs with tremorsense and reapers shouldn't be able to automatically communicate your exact location, it should place mobs into search mode, and 2) you should still be able to reset aggro with invis & stealth if you break line of sight and if the mobs cannot see through those things, returning them to search mode.

Area of Effect Spells

This is a great QoL fix, thank you.

I'm assuming the answer will be no for now (but hey, you gotta ask .... ) but any chance of getting this same thing added to melee mobs cleaves so that melee players can have a chance to move out of it ?

Great work Steel, I'm impressed, excited and relieved about these changes.

[Arctigis]

Hello!
Warlocks
With U36, the following changes are being made to Warlocks:

• Warlocks now receive Eldritch Blast base dice feats at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 (for a total of 6d6 at level 20) instead of their previous progression. Characters will be automatically adjusted to match this new progression.
• The Epic Eldritch Blast feat now grants 3d6 to Eldritch Blast.
• The Epic Arcane Eldritch Blast Destiny feat now grants 4d6 to Eldritch Blast.
• In Enlightened Spirit, Eldritch Burst's additional Light damage is now 1d6.
• In Enlightened Spirit, Spirit Blast's additional Light damage is now 4d6.
• In Enlightened Spirit, Spiritual Retribution's Light damage on all Eldritch Blasts and Weapon Attacks is now 1d4/2d4/3d4.

Internal and live data gathering has led to the conclusion that Warlock DPS is unquestionably too high in Heroic. It isn't simply a matter of their damage output relative to other classes (which is also too high), it's a matter of their power relative to content and other factors involved in overall game balance. Tuning other classes up to their level isn't an option; Warlock damage in Heroic needs to come down.

The above change alters the levels at which Warlocks add 1d6 to their base Eldritch Blast. On Live currently, when they reach level 20 they have 9d6; this change alters that to 6d6. To balance that against Epics, the two available Eldritch Blast feats have been increased to 3d6 and 4d6 (a net gain of +3d6, the same value that was removed from Heroics). As a result, by the time a Warlock reaches level 26, they can have exactly as many dice as they can get now.

The Enlightened Spirit changes bring the extra damage granted by these abilities closer in line with abilities in other classes. Having playtested with the changes, these abilities remain very potent.

BS; you've just listened to the whiners. Again. You realise these changes affect epic levels too -
where ES Warlock DPS is average at best?

You honestly think a 300% reduction in Eldritch Burst light damage (3d6 -> 1d6) and a 250% reduction in Spirit
Blast light damage (10d6 -> 4d6) is even remotely reasonable? It's a huge nerf to a bursting Warlock.

Well, congrats to all those who already got their racial past lives done and I hope the crabs are super happy
in their bucket. For everyone else, I apologise, this always happens when I return to play this game. I've
now cancelled both my subs and will quit again - things should hopefully get better. Yes, you could have
my stuff if it wasn't all BTC and BTA and I could stomach logging on to give it to you.

I would say see you in 18 months or so but somehow I don't think that will be an option.

[Qezuzu]

Aggro & Stealth
With U36, the following changes are being made to Aggro and Stealth:

• Monsters will take the distance of their targets into account now. Closer targets are more likely to be targeted (assuming they have not yet taken much damage) compared to Live.
• If a monster kills or loses their primary target, they’ll now aggro correctly on who has the most hate next (as opposed to the closest target, as they often do now on Live).
• Monsters with the “see stealthed” property will now display an angry red eye icon to anyone observing them in stealth. Note: The see through stealth property, aka “tremor sense” is not True Sight or See Invisible. Those abilities don’t actually don’t affect sight checks against players just using the stealth skill. For example, Spiders and Slimes typically have the See Through Stealth property, per 3.5 edition rules. Red- and Purple-name bosses also tend to get this ability.

These changes were the result of listening closely to player feedback and examination of monster AI in regards to stealth gameplay.

It's nice to see that this is on your radar. A couple questions:

"If a monster kills or loses their primary target, they’ll now aggro correctly on who has the most hate next (as opposed to the closest target, as they often do now on Live)"

Can you clarify "loses their primary target?" Because there's two different ways a monster can lose a player: they lose the player's location, or they forget about the player.

A big gripe of mine with the current system is that mobs will not forget about a sneaking player that they "found" through shared aggro, even with other players around them.

This is what I've been using as an example. At 0:07 the mobs are alerted to my presence, but immediately "lose" me because they didn't succeed on their own spot check. When I attempt to assassinate them a full 17 seconds later, they were still searching for me despite multiple other players being around them, and also damaging them slightly. I know for a fact that they would have kept going for the full 30 seconds it takes for them to stop searching.

Is this what you're changing? Because "lose their primary target" could also mean "when the mob has finished doing its 30-second search behavior, then it will move to whoever has the most hate next." If it's the former situation you're fixing, serious props because that is IMO one of the biggest issues affecting stealth.

Next question: will you ever entertain the idea of adjusting Reapers in how they handle sneaking players? Right now I think they are way too punishing and prevent a player from doing anything useful with sneak. Randomly placed "see stealthed" mobs are just really, really tough to deal with. I made a thread yesterday outlining my issues with them and the ways stealth can be used in a group. This could be removing their see-stealthed ability, disallowing them to share their aggro, reducing their cone of vision, giving them auto-succed on listen but not spot, etc. etc., but right now they're the absolute bane of anyone who wants to play as a sneaky rogue/other class. And not bane as in "oh this guy is pretty tough," bane as in they completely invalidate how I and others wanted to player in reaper.

This is especially important now that mobs will properly account for distance when choosing targets. Right now sneaking's only purpose was Assassinate and avoiding aggro from mobs that strangely make a beeline for whoever is in the back of the party. Now sneaking really only has one purpose, at least in reaper. I have to ask: how do you see players using the sneak skill?

[Morroiel]

It's nice to see that this is on your radar. A couple questions:

"If a monster kills or loses their primary target, they’ll now aggro correctly on who has the most hate next (as opposed to the closest target, as they often do now on Live)"

Can you clarify "loses their primary target?" Because there's two different ways a monster can lose a player: they lose the player's location, or they forget about the player.

A big gripe of mine with the current system is that mobs will not forget about a sneaking player that they "found" through shared aggro, even with other players around them.

This is what I've been using as an example. At 0:07 the mobs are alerted to my presence, but immediately "lose" me because they didn't succeed on their own spot check. When I attempt to assassinate them a full 17 seconds later, they were still searching for me despite multiple other players being around them, and also damaging them slightly. I know for a fact that they would have kept going for the full 30 seconds it takes for them to stop searching.

Is this what you're changing? Because "lose their primary target" could also mean "when the mob has finished doing its 30-second search behavior, then it will move to whoever has the most hate next." If it's the former situation you're fixing, serious props because that is IMO one of the biggest issues affecting stealth.

Next question: will you ever entertain the idea of adjusting Reapers in how they handle sneaking players? Right now I think they are way too punishing and prevent a player from doing anything useful with sneak. Randomly placed "see stealthed" mobs are just really, really tough to deal with. I made a thread yesterday outlining my issues with them and the ways stealth can be used in a group. This could be removing their see-stealthed ability, disallowing them to share their aggro, reducing their cone of vision, giving them auto-succed on listen but not spot, etc. etc., but right now they're the absolute bane of anyone who wants to play as a sneaky rogue/other class. And not bane as in "oh this guy is pretty tough," bane as in they completely invalidate how I and others wanted to player in reaper.

This is especially important now that mobs will properly account for distance when choosing targets. Right now sneaking's only purpose was Assassinate and avoiding aggro from mobs that strangely make a beeline for whoever is in the back of the party. Now sneaking really only has one purpose, at least in reaper. I have to ask: how do you see players using the sneak skill?

One thing that I'd really like to see is shadow form in shadowdancer bypass tremor sense. This would be a small buff to shadowdancer, allowing for people to focus on stealth / assassinate playstyle if they want. (I'd also like wraith form to work similarly but I'd settle just for shadow form).

[Gargoyle69]

One thing that I'd really like to see is shadow form in shadowdancer bypass tremor sense. This would be a small buff to shadowdancer, allowing for people to focus on stealth / assassinate playstyle if they want. (I'd also like wraith form to work similarly but I'd settle just for shadow form).

+1 for this suggestion.

Really, you're floating, how can you be detected by Tremorsense?

Would make it a great choice for anyone wanting to focus on stealth play. Would give people more reason to play in Shadowdancer too.

TBH I agree it should work in wraith form too. I would love to see that change.

[blerkington]

+1 for this suggestion.

Really, you're floating, how can you be detected by Tremorsense?

Would make it a great choice for anyone wanting to focus on stealth play. Would give people more reason to play in Shadowdancer too.

If this were added, I'd prefer to see it in the final core ability of shadowdancer. But I think it's too strong and would prefer to see tremorsense reworked instead.

It's very good to see some work being done on stealth/aggro, so well done there. I'd have to see how it plays before giving it a thumbs up or down.

Thanks.

[Morroiel]

If this were added, I'd prefer to see it in the final core ability of shadowdancer. But in truth, I think it's too strong to be added anywhere.

Thanks.

What difference does it make if its a T6 or autogrant final core in shadowdancer? One thing to keep in mind is it thematically fits shadow form, since you are floating and wouldn't provide any stimulus for tremor sense to work.

Why do you view the ability to bypass tremor sense as too strong? (especially when balanced with the fact that you can't be in LD)

[Six_Gun]

It's almost as if you guys at SSG are intentionally trying to drive players away from your game. I guess having only a couple hundred people left playing on each server is just too many.

Well, I hope all the whiners and complainers really enjoy playing solo.

[elvesunited]

However, you essentially reduced Eldritch Burst and Spirit blast damage by ~60% across the board.

Spirit Burst and spirit blast damage does at level 26th ( given both feats ):

Eldritch Blast: 13d6
Pact Damage: 10d4
burst/blast light: 1d6 ( down 66% ) or 4d6 ( down 60% )
spritiual retribution: 3d4 ( down 29% )
celestrial spirit: 3d6

Spirit Burst Average damage before: 22d6 + 10d4 ( 103 Avg )
Spirit Burst Average damage after: 17d6 + 13d4 ( 92 Avg )

Spirit Blast Average damage before: 29d6 + 10d4 ( 126 Avg )
Spirit Blast Average damage after: 20d6 + 13d4 ( 102 Avg )

So Spirit Burst down 9% and Spirit Blast down 19%
It's a nerf but it isn't nerf death to Enlightened Spirit warlocks
They will survive. I'm not going to reincarnate mine into something else.

In upper Epics, especially in higher skull reaper, evoker Warlocks were already underpowered and there was little reason to run an Enlightened Spirit build.

All melee types suffer and die in high skull reaper. Enlightened spirits may only be quasi melee but they still have to stand way too close to enemies that do way too much damage in a single strike through high PRR. That's just the way the reaper crumbles.