Defensive Roll and Reflex Saves.

[wolfy42]

Hello, I have a rogue multiclass (10 rogue/6 pally/4 monk), and he's rocking along at level 22.

I'm curious if anyone has tested defensive roll at 100+ reflex saves, does it always go off at that point? Also does it reduce ALL damage (Spells/melee attacks/traps etc), or just melee attacks.

I "think" I can get my reflex saves up to 100 eventually (or very close), but i'm not sure if there is a cap on how often the defensive roll applies (say 50% of the time) etc.

Unyielding sentinal is my stance, I have monks natural resist energy bonus and am a dragonborn for more fire. UY gives me 35 resists in all elements as well.

I have around an 80 PRR/MRR which reduces damage already by 40% or so (41.5 or something).

I can run with DR 10/epic, but that drops my max hp significantly so I usually don't (Also drops my healing amp).

Curious how that all works out (I also have a very high dodge % (which is almost 90% if I turn on uncanny dodge), spinning staff wall is no longer worth the time to activate it, but I still have it for the 5% increase to dodge).

Kinda matters how everything is applied. Does the DR from PRR/MRR stack with defensive roll (can't imagine it would), or is it applied one after the other (after DR or resists first).

So if an attack normally was going to do 100 damage, and I had 10 DR....it would drop to 90, then my PRR would drop that 40%, to 54 damage, then if I am under 50% health, my defensive roll would reduce that to 1/2.....meaning I'd take 27 damage total?

Obviously the DR/Resists have to go into effect before the PRR/MRR and defensive roll (or it would be too powerful). There are also elemental absoptions to consider as well etc, but I'm mostly curious about just normal attacks.

I won't take trap damage with this setup, so it really doesn't matter if defensive roll works on traps. Does matter if it works on spells (both direct attack, and even DoT spells for that matter).

[peng]

You could test with a dual-boxed caster in PvP. Try spells that always hit for the same amount of damage, like ruin, harm, or prismatic (sp)ray (depending on the color). For weapon damage, I recommend a base shuriken (1d2) with no [w] boosts so that there are only 2 possible values.

Don't forget that you need to be under 20% hp (up to 50% with acrobat improved defensive roll)

Hmm... Now I kinda want to do some testing. Don't have a rogue with near 100 reflex, but I'll see what I can do.

Edit: Who needs sleep when you can test stuff on ddo?

Magic missile does the same damage at full health and below 50% (improved def roll)

My rogue had 43 prr (30.07% reduction) and 51 reflex, and my attacker dealt (before prr) 1d2+7.

Actual damage dealt:
At full health, 5 and 6 (looks like prr rounds down: 8*0.6993=5.5944, 9*0.6993=6.2937)
Under 50%, 2 about half the time (51 reflex), 5 or 6 the rest of the time. I believe that defensive roll reduces damage (rounded down so both 8 and 9 become 4), then prr takes effect (4*0.6993=2.7972)

As to your question about a cap on def roll chance, I happened to roll a 51 success, 54 fail. I'm gonna go ahead and assume there's no 50% cap. I don't think there's a higher cap, but who knows?

[wolfy42]

You could test with a dual-boxed caster in PvP. Try spells that always hit for the same amount of damage, like ruin, harm, or prismatic (sp)ray (depending on the color). For weapon damage, I recommend a base shuriken (1d2) with no [w] boosts so that there are only 2 possible values.

Don't forget that you need to be under 20% hp (up to 50% with acrobat improved defensive roll)

Hmm... Now I kinda want to do some testing. Don't have a rogue with near 100 reflex, but I'll see what I can do.

Edit: Who needs sleep when you can test stuff on ddo?

Magic missile does the same damage at full health and below 50% (improved def roll)

My rogue had 43 prr (30.07% reduction) and 51 reflex, and my attacker dealt (before prr) 1d2+7.

Actual damage dealt:
At full health, 5 and 6 (looks like prr rounds down: 8*0.6993=5.5944, 9*0.6993=6.2937)
Under 50%, 2 about half the time (51 reflex), 5 or 6 the rest of the time. I believe that defensive roll reduces damage (rounded down so both 8 and 9 become 4), then prr takes effect (4*0.6993=2.7972)

As to your question about a cap on def roll chance, I happened to roll a 51 success, 54 fail. I'm gonna go ahead and assume there's no 50% cap. I don't think there's a higher cap, but who knows?

Awesome!! Thank you for testing that. Sad that it doesn't seem to affect spell damage though, but there is usually ways to mitigate that anyway to some degree.

I have other defenses that are in effect as well, such as the 10 temp hp each time I get hit from my stance, and the 4-6 hp I regen per hit with my staff (from fists of light and my quite high healing amp).

Those currently combine to keep me at nearly full health when fighting most enemies on EH, so my defensive roll (for now) isn't even being a factor yet. In theory though, those would be twice as effective (at least for melee/ranged non magical attacks), once I get under 50% health (And 100 reflex saves of course).

Still, not sure if it's worth investing so many feats etc into getting 100 reflex saves if it's only going to work on non-spells. More offense might be a better option (perfect two handed fighting and the 9% glancing blow damage feat for 19% more glancing blow damage would be quite nice for instance.

I'd still take the epic reflexes feat for sure (no fail on a 1, with (going to be very high reflex saves anyway) evasion = no trap damage pretty much ever hehe.

Still take the twists for no fails on fort/will as well.

But probably won't take bastion of defense for the +2 to all saves, or as many +6 reflex save twists.