Fix Holy Sword AGAIN

[Captain_Wizbang]

Edited 6/22

Bring back the +2 crit range, + 5 Holy Burst


OR leave as is and INCLUDE shield for vanguard and shield spec'ed builds w/ the holy burst

[Khurse]

Been away for ages- they nerfed Holy Sword?

[Steve_Howe]

#MakeHolySwordGreatAgain?

[Saekee]

was this mentioned on the livestream? Something related to domains? Speculations!

[Selvera]

I never had a paladin high enough to have holy sword back pre-nerf but... wiki says this: Post-Update 28 Patch 1, Holy Sword no longer affects shields, orbs, or Rune Arms, but does affect off-handed weapons.

I don't really see the problem with letting holy sword affect these; most of them aren't even used to hit things with anyways.

But it seems strange that this is coming up now; when Update 28 was what? 2 years ago?

Anyways yes, you could argue it's related to domains; as the proposed very rough draft of what domains might somewhat look like did include one domain getting the spell holysword at level 14.

[Captain_Wizbang]

#MakeHolySwordGreatAgain?

Thank you, I dont have a tweet account

[Captain_Wizbang]

was this mentioned on the livestream? Something related to domains? Speculations!

The thread with the proposed changes to cleric got me motivated to post the thread.

[Mr_Helmet]

Paladins are a little weak compared to the other martial classes, giving them that +1 Crit range would be fine.

[valkrei]

It needs to be a lower level spell, you basically need to be level 15 pal go get it and zeal. Would be even better if it was just an ability you turned on. SLA.

[goodspeed]

I remember back aways it gave an extra w for damage dice but that's it. Still works on everything and gives +1 to range and crit. Hell until they beat manyshot down and dropkicked 10k stars with the wisdom to goofy doubleshot change based on monk level 15 pally was where it was at for dmg with a bow.

You only went for the 12 monk if you wanted the versatility and runspeed. Or you could go fighter as a nice boost to. Not anymore. You need those goofy monk levels.

[Vish]

I think holy sword is in a good place
I got a 15 pally mc
I use Hs and zeal
Had a SOS with 14-20 x4
And I've seen it persist throughout debuffs
So it seems to be intrinsic to the paladin

I think a cleric domain with holy sword is fine
What, in warpriest?
Excellent place for it to be
Since they are close to paladins
And divines

[Captain_Wizbang]

Bring back the +2 crit range, + 5 Holy Burst



OR leave as is and INCLUDE shield and + 5 Holy Burst

[Knight_of_Order]

#paladinlivematters

[valkrei]

I think holy sword is in a good place
I got a 15 pally mc
I use Hs and zeal
Had a SOS with 14-20 x4
And I've seen it persist throughout debuffs
So it seems to be intrinsic to the paladin

I think a cleric domain with holy sword is fine
What, in warpriest?
Excellent place for it to be
Since they are close to paladins
And divines

The only problem I have is that I want zeal and Holy sword but both are level 15 spells. To high level spell slot for what they are and what really stinks is I need Deathward and I cant have all 3. without more than 15 levels of Paladin.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Will any of the domains affect this spell? Affect it in a way to increase it's usefulness for a feat and point starved class?

As characters approach end-game, this spell needs a bump.

Hence my desire to see the holy burst and light damage added.

[DrawingGuy]

The only problem I have is that I want zeal and Holy sword but both are level 15 spells. To high level spell slot for what they are and what really stinks is I need Deathward and I cant have all 3. without more than 15 levels of Paladin.

I don't see that as a problem... You can have up to 4 level 4 spells as a pure Paladin, which of course covers Zeal, Holy Sword, Death Ward, and then whatever other spell you want. Taking less Pally levels, you deserve less Pally abilities. And Holy Sword and Zeal are plenty powerful enough to deserve their level 4 designation.

As for the power of Holy Sword, it is in a good place. The "+5 Holy Burst" was nothing it ever had in the current incarnation - that was the pre-U23 version of it just being a little sword summon spell. Nor did it give +2 to the threat range. What it used to be was +1[W], +2 enhancement, +1 crit range, +1 crit multiplier. They nerfed it by only dropping the +1W and one less enhancement, but it is still plenty powerful.

Now the application to Shields... it was deemed that Holy Sword made S&B/Vanguard builds too strong, and I'd have to concur. For one, it put too big of an advantage to a Pally Vanguard over a Fighter Vanguard as it put them a huge leap ahead in DPS (and was a no-contest as that was pre-Fighter pass days). Secondly it put what should have been a trade-off of losing some DPS for defensive bonuses in the realm of a top DPS build. I was getting constant 4-5 digit damage numbers back when it applied to shields. Now that the Fighter Pass has happened and Warlock Enlightened Spirits exist, I feel there is room for this to apply to shields again. Though they're nerfing ES bursts, and it might still be too strong and would invalidate Fighter Vanguards again, so of course would need some testing/number crunching before serious consideration.

[Full_Bleed]

Would be even better if it was just an ability you turned on. SLA.

They should just make it a toggle (like the Archer Imbues). Too much of the Paladin's power is gated behind this spell and having to watch Divine Might's 2 min countdown. BOTH make no sense. Other classes that get stats to damage/attack don't have to keep clicking the ability every two minutes and neither of these is so over-powered that they couldn't make them more passive (and make the class more fun to play).

[valkrei]

I don't see that as a problem... You can have up to 4 level 4 spells as a pure Paladin, which of course covers Zeal, Holy Sword, Death Ward, and then whatever other spell you want. Taking less Pally levels, you deserve less Pally abilities. And Holy Sword and Zeal are plenty powerful enough to deserve their level 4 designation.

As for the power of Holy Sword, it is in a good place. The "+5 Holy Burst" was nothing it ever had in the current incarnation - that was the pre-U23 version of it just being a little sword summon spell. Nor did it give +2 to the threat range. What it used to be was +1[W], +2 enhancement, +1 crit range, +1 crit multiplier. They nerfed it by only dropping the +1W and one less enhancement, but it is still plenty powerful.

Now the application to Shields... it was deemed that Holy Sword made S&B/Vanguard builds too strong, and I'd have to concur. For one, it put too big of an advantage to a Pally Vanguard over a Fighter Vanguard as it put them a huge leap ahead in DPS (and was a no-contest as that was pre-Fighter pass days). Secondly it put what should have been a trade-off of losing some DPS for defensive bonuses in the realm of a top DPS build. I was getting constant 4-5 digit damage numbers back when it applied to shields. Now that the Fighter Pass has happened and Warlock Enlightened Spirits exist, I feel there is room for this to apply to shields again. Though they're nerfing ES bursts, and it might still be too strong and would invalidate Fighter Vanguards again, so of course would need some testing/number crunching before serious consideration.

Holy sword got a huge nerf, which is the point of this post. So I disagree with you. And to strong? comon not like they were warlocks or anything.

[valkrei]

They should just make it a toggle (like the Archer Imbues). Too much of the Paladin's power is gated behind this spell and having to watch Divine Might's 2 min countdown. BOTH make no sense. Other classes that get stats to damage/attack don't have to keep clicking the ability every two minutes and neither of these is so over-powered that they couldn't make them more passive (and make the class more fun to play).

I agree. SLA is the way to go.

[Jetrule]

At least let Holy Sword provide good dr bypass. Its HOLY Sword after all. And if it applies to shields which it should then put something in fighter vanguard tree cores 12 and 18 that balances it.