warlocks are imbalanced

[Lallajulia]

i clearly imagine this was discussed already. but now it is my time. watched game, classes, known players, good(some stellar players on gland) and not so good and class as a whole is even in worse situation as it was before.
from my prespective of view, i can not even recall any game where one class would be so overpowered.
why? everyone knows why, players by taking powers, devs hiding eyes from problem.

to my sense, problem is worse than it was when we had similar thing with monks.

rationally, i have zero good choices if i want tr races. only best choice is variation of warlock.

i told before what you need to do, to balace it.

1. make all and every lock power be dependant of spell points. and. every and any walrock power under all caster weaknesess, spell level, cost, etc.
2. no hyper hp. it may be still viable ability, but it have to have downsides. my suggestion is negative levels. what would affect spell ability. every and each time warlock takes hitpoints from nowhere, it loses its sp, it loses level.
3. reduce so op warlock tree aoe hit. reduce it seriously in terms of cooldown AND spell power + spell level. make monsters to able save from it heavily. make it as spell as it should be.

there is zero excuses for warlocks be as it is. situation what we have now is worst class disbalance i can remember, save monkshuri/muri some years ago.

ty for time reading. not going into heavy discussions, not want, do not have time for this. we all love our game, i wish possibilities. choices. this is major flaw is see so far.

[Six_Gun]

You obviously play only Heroic content. Warlocks are fine as is when Epic level play is considered.

No class should be balanced with Heroic levels as the baseline.

[Memnir]

[Talon_Moonshadow]

You obviously play only Heroic content. Warlocks are fine as is when Epic level play is considered.

No class should be balanced with Heroic levels as the baseline.

Eberron, Forgotten Realms, we also have Grewhawk.

Yet you have apparently found another fantasy world in DDO.......

[silinteresting]

i have zero good choices if i want tr races.

now this is funny, thankyou for the laugh over my morning coffee.

your friend sil

[KoobTheProud]

Warlocks are intentionally unbalanced. They're the class designed to be somewhat on par with very OP multi-TR builds.

It just is what it is. Turbine and SSG need something to appeal to new players who don't want to spend 3 years getting up to speed.

[jalont]

You obviously play only Heroic content. Warlocks are fine as is when Epic level play is considered.

No class should be balanced with Heroic levels as the baseline.

I always wonder if people who say this are just attempting to keep their easy button from getting nerfed or if they truly have no understanding of DDO at all. If I had enough disposable income, my DDO endgame would be transferring from server to server every time I read this post and grouping with the person that wrote it to ask why my warlock build is so much better than whatever it is they think is on par with it.

[Enoach]

i clearly imagine this was discussed already. but now it is my time. watched game, classes, known players, good(some stellar players on gland) and not so good and class as a whole is even in worse situation as it was before.
from my prespective of view, i can not even recall any game where one class would be so overpowered.
why? everyone knows why, players by taking powers, devs hiding eyes from problem.

to my sense, problem is worse than it was when we had similar thing with monks.

rationally, i have zero good choices if i want tr races. only best choice is variation of warlock.

Warlock being a class not a race actually makes many races good for TR purposes

i told before what you need to do, to balace it.

1. make all and every lock power be dependant of spell points. and. every and any walrock power under all caster weaknesess, spell level, cost, etc.

I don't agree that making these abilities that currently don't have a spell point cost require one. Now I'm not against reviewing the spell power percentage. Additionally, I'm not sure you understand that only part of the Eldritch blast has no saves, the Pact damage has a Reflex/Fortitude/Will save depending on Pact choice.

2. no hyper hp. it may be still viable ability, but it have to have downsides. my suggestion is negative levels. what would affect spell ability. every and each time warlock takes hitpoints from nowhere, it loses its sp, it loses level.

Abilities like Shining Through cost 8 Spell points and can only be used once every 30 seconds. The Aura Temporary Hit Points proc once every 5 seconds and if the Aura is on they are unable to use their Eldritch range abilities.

3. reduce so op warlock tree aoe hit. reduce it seriously in terms of cooldown AND spell power + spell level. make monsters to able save from it heavily. make it as spell as it should be.

It would be interesting to add a DC to these abilities as it would effect the heavy Constitution builds. But then it would also push more towards the other trees with powerful DC abilities and chain abilities.

For me I don't think the 5 second cooldown is as much the problem with these as it is the range. The range is what makes this ability powerful as it is farther reaching then the cleave being 360 and about 3x melee weapon range.

However a good fix for melee would be to bring in Pole type weapons.

there is zero excuses for warlocks be as it is. situation what we have now is worst class disbalance i can remember, save monkshuri/muri some years ago.

Balance is generally achieved over time. I think before Devs embark on "nerfing" a class they need to finish the passes on other classes. This was how the monk type builds were balanced.

ty for time reading. not going into heavy discussions, not want, do not have time for this. we all love our game, i wish possibilities. choices. this is major flaw is see so far.

[Vish]

Cowboys riding warlocks is all I see

High hp, high Umd and free dps
Too op for heroic

I suggest 1sp per blast
And maybe d4 hp
Umd is their saving grace
Wiz and sorc don't even get Umd
No reason not to play anything else
In heroic

[Sweyn]

BLUF: There are too many people playing Warlocks

In an ideal world, every class would be balanced and roughly the same number of each class would be online at any time. At this current moment on Khyber the number of each class logged on is:

Artificer: 10 (4.26%)
Barbarian: 10 (4.26%)
Bard: 9 (3.83%)
Cleric 15 (6.38%)
Druid: 8 (3.40%)
Favored Soul: 2 (0.85%)
Fighter: 13 (5.53%)
Monk: 19 (8.09%)
Paladin: 20 (8.51%)
Ranger: 22 (9.36%)
Rogue: 32 (13.6%)
Sorcerer: 5 (2.13%)
Warlock: 49 (20.9%)
Wizard: 21 (8.94%)
-----------------------
Total: 235 (100%)

As you can see the warlock has an un-proportional player base when comparing it to the other classes. I am not going to speculate whether that is because they are OP or because they are simply more fun; however, the point I am trying to make is that DDO is heavily weighted towards Warlock while other classes barely get played at all. There are 14 total classes (so if you do the math in an "ideal world" roughly 7.14% of the people should be playing any particular class at any particular time) yet one out of every five people play a Warlock at any given time. In other words, there are 3x as many people playing Warlocks as there should be. This is a problem.

I'm not calling for a nerf, I'm calling for a balancing of classes (whether it comes from how fun they are to play or how powerful they are) to entice groups to have more diversity. I'm tired of running a raid with 7 Warlocks or running Reaper quests with 4 Warlocks. Quite frankly it's ridiculous.






And yes.... I have nothing better to do this Saturday morning.

[Six_Gun]

I always wonder if people who say this are just attempting to keep their easy button from getting nerfed or if they truly have no understanding of DDO at all. If I had enough disposable income, my DDO endgame would be transferring from server to server every time I read this post and grouping with the person that wrote it to ask why my warlock build is so much better than whatever it is they think is on par with it.

My DC caster would make you tuck tail and scurry back to your little bubble. I enjoy making kill count obsessed Warlocks cry.

[Six_Gun]

BLUF: There are too many people playing Warlocks

In an ideal world, every class would be balanced and roughly the same number of each class would be online at any time. At this current moment on Khyber the number of each class logged on is:

Artificer: 10 (4.26%)
Barbarian: 10 (4.26%)
Bard: 9 (3.83%)
Cleric 15 (6.38%)
Druid: 8 (3.40%)
Favored Soul: 2 (0.85%)
Fighter: 13 (5.53%)
Monk: 19 (8.09%)
Paladin: 20 (8.51%)
Ranger: 22 (9.36%)
Rogue: 32 (13.6%)
Sorcerer: 5 (2.13%)
Warlock: 49 (20.9%)
Wizard: 21 (8.94%)
-----------------------
Total: 235 (100%)

As you can see the warlock has an un-proportional player base when comparing it to the other classes. I am not going to speculate whether that is because they are OP or because they are simply more fun; however, the point I am trying to make is that DDO is heavily weighted towards Warlock while other classes barely get played at all. There are 14 total classes (so if you do the math in an "ideal world" roughly 7.14% of the people should be playing any particular class at any particular time) yet two out of every 5 people play a Warlock at any given time. In other words, there are 3x as many people playing Warlocks as there should be. This is a problem.

I'm not calling for a nerf, I'm calling for a balancing of classes (whether it comes from how fun they are to play or how powerful they are) to entice groups to have more diversity. I'm tired of running a raid with 7 Warlocks or running Reaper quests with 4 Warlocks. Quite frankly it's ridiculous.






And yes.... I have nothing better to do this Saturday morning.

Try counting just those players at level 30.

[Phoenicis]

8<rationally, i have zero good choices if i want tr races. only best choice is variation of warlock.>8

Not a true statement.

Any class that lets you go thru heroic with little to no problem is viable.

Rogue mechanics (actually faster cause +30% exp for traps and another 10% in some quests for secret doors rocks)
Almost any AA build.
Many barb builds are capable of self healing and powering thru Heroic at blinding speed.

Personally, I prefer a rogue/something else multiclass cause I DESPISE getting caught by traps.

Are warlocks strong? Yup, possibly to the point of being OP.

But there ARE viable options, nothing is forcing you to play a warlock.

One of my personal issues is I'm terrible at high clicky builds. I prefer builds that let me select a target and obliterate it, then move on with a minimum of button presses. I'm terrible at button presses I'll reach for one button and hit the one next to it instead. All the time. Warlock, Rogue mechanic, AA builds, Ranged Arti, all function well with a minimum of button presses.

And when you consider the clicky builds that I suck at but are equally viable, well, warlock is far from your ONLY option.

[psykopeta]

imbalanced compared to other casters? well, most haven't seen their class pass yet, so in certain aspects (not dc nor nuking) yes they are

are warlocks so OP that players are soloing or 2 manning r10? nope, they are not

they are an easy button for new players, right, easy to build/gear maybe, but the thing is... if preset paths were viable, an using current top builds (every class has several, pure and multiclassed, using harper and not) new players wouldn't be "forced" to play warlocks (they do most times cause they don't know ddo and old players keep telling them "roll a warlock", sad thing that comes most times from a non warlock toon)

that's my opinion as one of the few ubercompletionists in thelanis (not that many players are doing RTR on reaper with warlocks in there, for example i prefer bards, arti, rogue, wizard for that purpose)

that reminds me the old "how many warlocks do u need to complete LE shroud? 1 hurler at most, more means losing dps

[jalont]

are warlocks so OP that players are soloing or 2 manning r10? nope, they are not

We're not?

Soloing, no, not yet. (Give me time). 2 manning? Absolutely.

[Hcinrich_Hain]

Taking things away is generally a rather bad approach.
Better yet improve the weaker classes.

This game has next to no PVP so I happily accept a strong
Warlock taking the lead.
I'd be even happier though if we could see eye to eye.

[Qhualor]

rogue is the most played class right now. warlock usually comes in the top 3 or 4. that's an unofficial observation of years of studying the lfm watching one class climbing the top of the heap pushing off another class and watching it happen with pretty much every class over and over again.

new players playing warlocks? sure, but certainly not designed for them or designed to bypass 3 years of experience and feel like they have "caught up" to a vet lol. you still need to know how to build a good character, know the quests and know how to play. ask yourself, "how long did it take for you to learn how to play your first successful character? how many different attempts did it take before you settled on a build you really liked? how did you know when you first logged into the game that warlock was the new player friendly class to play that is also deemed OP by the forums?" most warlocks I come across are vets or players that have been playing for at least a year. I cant remember the last time I saw a warlock with no wings around their name.

earlier today I ran with a group doing an at level EE ES1 chain with a warlock in the group. he had the second highest kill count, but the highest deaths in every quest. my Tempest ranger had the highest kill counts and no deaths. kill counts dont mean squat, especially since my ranger can kill steal with Merciful Strike. deaths however do mean something. obviously some power with this guys warlock, but doesn't know how to manage agro and self healing. this is the kind of thing I see a lot with warlocks. they can have a lot of kills, but a lot of deaths or they can have abysmal damage output and provide very little to the group, but they got the warlock icon at least. the point, you still need to know how to build and play.

[Powerhungry]

I was in a group with good players (known names on the server)- they were on the racial TR hamster wheel on reaper 3-4 and was asked - why are you a wizard? - the other 5 were warlocks
If the best players are using warlocks through heroics because it's the easy button balance should be looked at.

[jalont]

rogue is the most played class right now. warlock usually comes in the top 3 or 4. that's an unofficial observation of years of studying the lfm watching one class climbing the top of the heap pushing off another class and watching it happen with pretty much every class over and over again.

new players playing warlocks? sure, but certainly not designed for them or designed to bypass 3 years of experience and feel like they have "caught up" to a vet lol. you still need to know how to build a good character, know the quests and know how to play. ask yourself, "how long did it take for you to learn how to play your first successful character? how many different attempts did it take before you settled on a build you really liked? how did you know when you first logged into the game that warlock was the new player friendly class to play that is also deemed OP by the forums?" most warlocks I come across are vets or players that have been playing for at least a year. I cant remember the last time I saw a warlock with no wings around their name.

earlier today I ran with a group doing an at level EE ES1 chain with a warlock in the group. he had the second highest kill count, but the highest deaths in every quest. my Tempest ranger had the highest kill counts and no deaths. kill counts dont mean squat, especially since my ranger can kill steal with Merciful Strike. deaths however do mean something. obviously some power with this guys warlock, but doesn't know how to manage agro and self healing. this is the kind of thing I see a lot with warlocks. they can have a lot of kills, but a lot of deaths or they can have abysmal damage output and provide very little to the group, but they got the warlock icon at least. the point, you still need to know how to build and play.

In ES1 EE, if you were playing with a properly played warlock, you wouldn't have gotten more than 5 kills in the entire chain, and the warlock would never have died.

[Phoenicis]

In ES1 EE, if you were playing with a properly played warlock, you wouldn't have gotten more than 5 kills in the entire chain, and the warlock would never have died.

here, lemme quote the relevant part again

properly played warlock

A properly played warlock. As mentioned (by someone else) elsewhere, player knowledge is a HUGE factor in how a character does.

A new player cannot pick up and play a warlock (even an experienced gamer, though their learning curve will be shorter) in anywhere close to the capability of a well played/built/geared vet.

If a new player reads the forums, they may think, 'wow, warlock is so op, I can do anything' roll one, wander into HE (assuming VIP) and get whacked.

It takes knowledge to build a warlock to anywhere near their potential, and if you don't have that knowledge they are only marginally better (if that) than any other class.