Fix Fear Reapers

[Sam-u-r-eye]

This is kind of hilarious actually. I remember all of the arguments in previous eras justifying "safe spots" and even calling it smart use of tactics, even in circumstances where it was just as cheesy as fear reapers ability to stack DOTs on the entire party while behind walls. An example would be people vehemently defending perching and crit fishing with firewalls as the best method to farm epic scrolls in that meta.

+1

[Satyriasys]

Come on baby, don't fear the reaper

[Gratch]

Anyone has experience with fear reapers in Inferno?

I spent last racial life solo'ing all the quests I ran on R1-R3 (depending on annoyance of quest). I ran Inferno on elite after 2 failed fear reaper issues. Bounced back and forth trying to find them. Either they were in a flame wall or in an area ahead. The current aggro mechanism and that quest don't work well together. I'd go into a room (solo'ing - no one else grabbing aggro), clear all the mobs and something would trigger DA up to red alert... with no monsters around me. Once I'd pop onto the otherside I'd have a host of 20+ mobs come running around the corner. Very weird. But somehow while fighting on one side, aggro got upped on the other side. Will file a bug.

Only other fear reaper incident that ended the quest was one behind the door that I couldn't AoE in Threnal. Brought Coyle to his door... fear reaper just beyond the door killed Coyle once enough dots stacked.

Have had a number of close calls but can usually find them or AoE or die near a shrine or ... Though not sure how well this would work on a melee or even ranged life... fear reaper spawned up above with gnolls in Chains of Flame (twice) but not near the precipice... needed aoe spells to hit them.

[Qezuzu]

Fear reapers are bugged. They're not supposed to spawn in inaccessible areas. They are not supposed to spawn in areas that the party will not be able to access for a long time (e.g. what happens very often in reaper Chains of Flame.)

Reaper is supposed to provide challenge, not completely unwinnable game states, which is what Fear reapers are currently capable of doing in some quests.

They also should not wipe an entire party without available counterplay. The existence of Jibbers and Reborn in Light shouldn't change this.

Please, please, please stop defending bugs. Especially bugs the devs have, at the very least, expressed interest in fixing:

First, Reaper mode isn't really intended to be fair. We are trying to kill you.

Fear Reapers specifically challenge the knowledge and ability of a party to stay together and control their agro. And yes, the side effect of damaging parked characters is intentional. If the problem with Fear Reapers for you is that someone across the map is getting damaged, or that someone has unintentionally drawn the ire of one because they forged ahead when they shouldn't have then the pain the players feel from that is part of the design.

Don't get me wrong - we want to fix situations where Fear Reapers can spawn places that a group cannot get to at all. Knowing, however, all the ins and outs of how creatures can detect characters and where dungeons can potentially spawn Reapers to destroy you is part of the challenge. If your difficulty is that people across the map are being punished by decisions of other party members who are forging ahead without knowing the content, or how and where a Fear Reaper might detect a party prematurely, then that is part of the design.

Sev~

[Baelorn]

Yes.., they want to put fear reapers in places that the party cannot reach in the time frame that it'd take to get there. Which means, wipe. If its unwinnable, why bother putting them there in the first place. Sounds to me like the dev's got fed up with the player base asking for things to get fixed. And decided to put that in, so the playerbase could grief some more, while the dev's laugh with their revenge. On that note, i'm glad my vip ends in 12 more days. I'm not resubbing. Not spending another $0.10 aka dime, on this game. Even though i've got 21 heroic tr's done. Going back to premium, and staying that way. If i need ddo store pts. I'll make a iconic, and favor farm / delete / remake.

Their history towards fixing long standing game bugs, is non-existant. They don't bother. That's why the known bugs thread was deleted, how long ago?

It was a sad reminder of their failures. Constantly growing. I recall it being 37 pages long before i stopped reading it. How big did it get, does anyone recall?

The simple solution to this issue, they probably could not figure out is. Keep the fear reapers stacking dot. Have them teleport to the player/hireling they were aggro'd by, but only if line of sight is broken. Like every other "Reaper" currently in the game.

It has a blue aoe centered around it, with a small range. You want to make it fearsome, well how about either giving it a +2 stacks of dot per second, added to the players debuff while in its aoe.. OR: Give its melee attack the fear spell. With like a 1.5-2 sec debuff. Giving it time to chase the player, and reapply another fear, while the stacking dungeon wide dot grows a little bigger. One or the other, but not both. As the player would need some HOPE of winning the fight, rather than being spam feared till dead.

Stop with the lame excuse of this is a reaper difficulty. Its meant to be hard and challenging. Get used to it.

To me it means: If their going to be that lazy about addressing a issue, and pointing the finger at something else instead. Its probably time for me to go find a new game. They can't fix what they break, so they'd rather say something else like: this is the way its meant to be. Yeah,. its meant to be a no win scenario in some cases. The player just has to die. Spam trips. Spam stuns. Swarms upon swarms of mobs. In some cases, from no dungeon alert to yellow or red dungeon alert.

Well if that's the message they're pushing at us, then perhaps everyone should stop feeding them $ until they fix whats actually wrong with the game. The longstanding bugs which have been here for more than a decade. Before they continue on with adding more content and breaking more stuff. There's going to be a point when players will say, either you start fixing the issues within the game, before the game dies off due to lack of players and you'll suddenly find yourself without a job as a developer / coder. Or let it continue this way, and keep watching the playerbase shrink until its just the developers and then you get fired.

Before i came back to this game, i had checked the server activity for each one, to see if the game was still up and running. And there are less than 900 active accounts on the cannith server atm. Per Month. The place i did this at, reported the peak time between 3pm and 5pm EST. For the whole month it showed just over 800 different IP addresses connecting to the cannith server. The rest of the servers were under 400 different ip address connections per month. With some barely breaking 200. Over a 3 month period.

So I hate to break it to ya SSG, but across all your servers, you have less than 3400 different players worldwide who are connecting to this game on a monthly basis. Not daily, and not weekly. That's not alot of income on a monthly basis. And unless you start fixing the issues within the game, so that word will spread by the longstanding players who are still here. People will not return to this game. The expansion you plan on launching later this year, won't do you any good. You need improvements now. Not detrimental comments made by people who represent you. Listen to the playerbase. Fix the problems.

[Vanhooger]

I have asked this in another thread just after reaper came out but had no answer whatsoever, maybe you lucky enough to get one

[Wizza]

Fear reapers are bugged. They're not supposed to spawn in inaccessible areas. They are not supposed to spawn in areas that the party will not be able to access for a long time (e.g. what happens very often in reaper Chains of Flame.)

Reaper is supposed to provide challenge, not completely unwinnable game states, which is what Fear reapers are currently capable of doing in some quests.

They also should not wipe an entire party without available counterplay. The existence of Jibbers and Reborn in Light shouldn't change this.

Please, please, please stop defending bugs. Especially bugs the devs have, at the very least, expressed interest in fixing:

Great quote there, thank you for posting it.

I have asked this in another thread just after reaper came out but had no answer whatsoever, maybe you lucky enough to get one

Considering the excuses that the community makes for SSG itself, and considering that the Developers are more on the non-official Discord group than the forum itself, I doubt we will get anything meaningful. But hey..gotta try! Makes for a good laugh when people are telling me that I should lower the difficulty and that Fear Reapers + broken aggro are WAI.

[slarden]

Considering the excuses that the community makes for SSG itself, and considering that the Developers are more on the non-official Discord group than the forum itself, I doubt we will get anything meaningful. But hey..gotta try! Makes for a good laugh when people are telling me that I should lower the difficulty and that Fear Reapers + broken aggro are WAI.

I agree with you on both reaper spawn pots and aggro. I don't believe people are making excuses - I think people believe the game is still too easy and that this adds challenge. The aggro issue is especially bad as it removes playstyles from the game.

I am guessing the aggro issue is something that can be fixed globally but the reaper spawn spots would have to be addressed quest by quest. I hope they at least fix aggro and the quests impacted most by spawn issues. A simple thing they can do is post an official topic forum asking people to list where they notice the spawning issue so they can fix the worst x quests.

[Wizza]

I agree with you on both reaper spawn pots and aggro. I don't believe people are making excuses - I think people believe the game is still too easy and that this adds challenge. The aggro issue is especially bad as it removes playstyles from the game.

I am guessing the aggro issue is something that can be fixed globally but the reaper spawn spots would have to be addressed quest by quest. I hope they at least fix aggro and the quests impacted most by spawn issues. A simple thing they can do is post an official topic forum asking people to list where they notice the spawning issue so they can fix the worst x quests.

If people have to use "Reaper is not supposed to be fair", that is just a poor response/excuse. Either way, I agree and this should be fixed.

[Severlin]

While Reaper mode isn't supposed to be fair, that isn't an excuse for broken mechanics.

First, let me say that many cases listed above we have no issue with, even though they are harsh. If you drop down a hole, for example, and a Fear Reaper spawns behind you then you didn't carefully clear the way before you proceeded, and you get what you get. If a fear reaper spawns behind a door, and the party moved ahead and caused it to activate, then they have to quickly clear the area to get to the fear reaper before the damage kills them all. Part of Reaper is knowing the dungeons well enough and moving carefully enough to avoid those pitfalls.

That doesn't mean that there are not issues, however. If players report instances where a fear reaper can spawn in areas the players can never get to we do want to address those. We can also look at how fear reaper activate, to cut down on these types of incidents.

Sev~

[Wizza]

While Reaper mode isn't supposed to be fair, that isn't an excuse for broken mechanics.

First, let me say that many cases listed above we have no issue with, even though they are harsh. If you drop down a hole, for example, and a Fear Reaper spawns behind you then you didn't carefully clear the way before you proceeded, and you get what you get. If a fear reaper spawns behind a door, and the party moved ahead and caused it to activate, then they have to quickly clear the area to get to the fear reaper before the damage kills them all. Part of Reaper is knowing the dungeons well enough and moving carefully enough to avoid those pitfalls.

That doesn't mean that there are not issues, however. If players report instances where a fear reaper can spawn in areas the players can never get to we do want to address those. We can also look at how fear reaper activate, to cut down on these types of incidents.

Sev~

Which exactly are your "many cases listed above" that you think are WAI, exactly? I will list them here again, for clarity:

- Trackers trap: Fear Reaper spawned inside a Pit Trap. The trap was not activate. Unreachable.
- Thrill of the Hunt: Fear Reaper inside a cage. Cage only opens when boss is at 60% hp. Again, impossible to do that much damage before dying 50 times.
- End of the Road: Fear Reaper aggroed from unknown place. Literally. Couldn't find it. He was so far away that we could even get out of his range, and that's a gigantic range we are talking about.
- Lesson in Deception: Fear Reaper aggroed from the Locked room where chest is, except we were on the other side of the wall. Hence, impossible to reach.
- Memoirs: Fear Reapers aggroing from everywhere. Just a mess.
- Ghost of a Chance: Fear Reaper spawned behind the barrier. Have to clear 2 rooms before getting there.

Are you saying that a Fear Reaper spawning inside the pit trap, when there is no pit trap, you have no issues with that? Or that you have no issue when mobs, including a Fear Reaper, aggro from behind a door that cannot be accessed until you basically complete the other half of the dungeon is not an issue?

These are not a matter of "the group is moving too fast". It's a matter of Fear Reaper spawning as soon as you enter in the dungeon, so, thanks to your new broken aggro mechanic, they get aggroed in places that players have not accessed at yet.

Are you saying it's ok when a Fear Reaper aggros when we can't even see it? Because all these examples fall into the "players cannot get there" area that you just said it's not wai. Which one is it? Are they WAI or not? I really can't understand.

We can also look at how fear reaper activate, to cut down on these types of incidents.

Sev~

I think it would be much better fixing the broken aggro mechanic, since mobs aggroing behind secret door, walls and etc. is pretty broken. But if you can change Fear Reapers and how they activate, I'm listening. Any change would be better than what they are now.

[Ebondevil]

I've seen some Reapers (not sure which ones) teleport to the players location, why not let fear reapers do so as well, would be a simple solution to the problem of them spawning in impossible to reach areas.

Stopping mobs from aggroing through walls would be a much better solution for multiple reasons though.

[Rys]

While Reaper mode isn't supposed to be fair, that isn't an excuse for broken mechanics.

First, let me say that many cases listed above we have no issue with, even though they are harsh. If you drop down a hole, for example, and a Fear Reaper spawns behind you then you didn't carefully clear the way before you proceeded, and you get what you get. If a fear reaper spawns behind a door, and the party moved ahead and caused it to activate, then they have to quickly clear the area to get to the fear reaper before the damage kills them all. Part of Reaper is knowing the dungeons well enough and moving carefully enough to avoid those pitfalls.

That doesn't mean that there are not issues, however. If players report instances where a fear reaper can spawn in areas the players can never get to we do want to address those. We can also look at how fear reaper activate, to cut down on these types of incidents.

Sev~

In other words, we are not touching anything concerning the reaper or the aggro (maybe player favorable mechanics *cough cough*).

I didn't think I will ever say this but I kinda wish Turbine would keep the game. At least you had deadlines. Now there are same bugs as before and no deadlines.

[PuppiesAndRainbows]

If you drop down a hole, for example, and a Fear Reaper spawns behind you then you didn't carefully clear the way before you proceeded, and you get what you get.

Sev~

In The Sacred Helm
Get to the top of the very long ladder.
Fear of Death starts stacking.
Fear Reaper nowhere in sight.
No Reapers at the top of the ladder.

Fear Reaper was in the tunnel at the bottom of the ladder.
Right by the traps which had been disarmed.

Reaper wasn't blocked.
Killed it.

A Fear Reaper can spawn in an area that has been carefully cleared.

[Scrapco]

If you drop down a hole, for example, and a Fear Reaper spawns behind you then you didn't carefully clear the way before you proceeded, and you get what you get.

This is incorrect with how the game currently works.

[airbornerangers]

spider puzzle room in stk, puzzle done, breakables done, spiders dead, drop down, reaper spawns, THATS ON THE GROUP?
WOW,
might be time to acknowledge that aint rain hitting my face!!!!!

[CSQ]

While Reaper mode isn't supposed to be fair, that isn't an excuse for broken mechanics.

First, let me say that many cases listed above we have no issue with, even though they are harsh. If you drop down a hole, for example, and a Fear Reaper spawns behind you then you didn't carefully clear the way before you proceeded, and you get what you get. If a fear reaper spawns behind a door, and the party moved ahead and caused it to activate, then they have to quickly clear the area to get to the fear reaper before the damage kills them all. Part of Reaper is knowing the dungeons well enough and moving carefully enough to avoid those pitfalls.

That doesn't mean that there are not issues, however. If players report instances where a fear reaper can spawn in areas the players can never get to we do want to address those. We can also look at how fear reaper activate, to cut down on these types of incidents.

Sev~

All due respect, but the fear reaper + door combo is broken and OP. Because of the timing of the damage tick and the time it takes to open most doors, there have been times when a fear reaper has spawned on the other side of a door I wanted to open (I remember at least once in one of the Delara quests and once in the Sorrowdusk chain, though I don't remember which quests in particular) and basically made it next to impossible to open the door because of damage ticks (even trying for the timing, I think there was some latency or something that made it almost impossible to get the timing right) and I took about seven ticks of damage while just trying to open the stupid door. There is no way this should be WAI. I understand if your party does something stupid and leaves a fear reaper behind, then that's fine. But when it stacks with other things it becomes very frustrating, and frustrating is typically a consequence of bad design. Even if fear reapers don't get a LOS check for their aura hitting targets, it should at least have a LOS check for when it begins, because seeing a fear reaper clip its bony hands through a door is a sign that the next fifteen seconds are going to be stupid.

And no. This isn't "difficulty". Reaper *IS* intended to be hard, and that's fine. This is stupid. There's no other way to say it. Difficulty should mean players can find solutions, like not having an idiot zerg, not having to pray that latency doesn't ruin their ability to use the door and get them killed for no reason what-so-ever. That's a broken mechanic.

Edit: Side tangent, but it's amusing/frustrating that my high level HP bag characters get interrupted trying to open a door while taking single digit damage. Perhaps interruptions while interacting with the environment could be reassessed to be a percentage of HP instead of just "You got hit by a kobold in the other room sneezing, now you have to start over"? I can only think of one quest that uses this as a mechanic (though perhaps I'm forgetting a few) and it's an optional, so it would fix half of my gripe anyway without having much impact on gameplay. Perhaps it would allow more cheese for some quests, but hey, people do that plenty now anyway.

[Qezuzu]

While Reaper mode isn't supposed to be fair, that isn't an excuse for broken mechanics.

It'd help if you define in what ways you believe Fear Reapers are currently broken.

-spawning in locations that are impossible for a player to access
-spawning in locations that have already been cleared of mobs
-spawning in places that a party cannot access for a long period of time

Which of these is not WAI?

[Sanader]

Please fix DDO I miss playing it.
It's just hard to get back to it with all the bugs around. I always get demotivated when I stumble across a ladder bug It's been 10 years now without ladder bug fix?
Fixing bugs makes DDO more enjoyable than introducing new content (expecially considering the new content will be buggy to).

So please, remove the fear reapers. There is no chance anyone is capable off fixing problem that big. We still have LADDER bug. We still have LFM bug (you know, each time we log in we have to open player list with O, click search and after that LFM is okay). We still don't see icons for iconic heroes. I mean icons. The little picture in LFM list. Insert picture. Consumables or spells going on cooldown without anything happening. There is a cannith crafting bug to. Let's not forget quest bugs (storm reaver in heroic GH, end fight in dream of jeets, bugged spawn points in butchers path...)

And you plan on fixing fear reapers? Whos mechanic is based on already broken aggro system? How does one fix fear reaver aggro if aggro mechanic is broken? How does one even fix aggro system if ladder bug wasn't fix in 10 years? Or a LFM picture bug? Or am I allowed to make an external script that will press O and click search each time I log in without getting banned (awfull solution but better than turbines/SSG - non in more than a year).


Such a shame that bugs ruin this nice game Unbelivable.

I make similar rants once in a while on how the focus should be on fixing bugs at the moment, but noooooo. Let's introduce new broken stuff that will use old broken stuff. It will surely bring back old players. Oh look! We introduced fear reavers! And the are broken! And community isn't happy! Who the hell could predict that?!

Maybe SSG could implement bug-o-meter that measures number of bugs per hour of gameplay. 30bugs/hour sounds okay.


Well, hi and cya in few months again I guess.

[Drwaz99]

While Reaper mode isn't supposed to be fair, that isn't an excuse for broken mechanics.

First, let me say that many cases listed above we have no issue with, even though they are harsh. If you drop down a hole, for example, and a Fear Reaper spawns behind you then you didn't carefully clear the way before you proceeded, and you get what you get. If a fear reaper spawns behind a door, and the party moved ahead and caused it to activate, then they have to quickly clear the area to get to the fear reaper before the damage kills them all. Part of Reaper is knowing the dungeons well enough and moving carefully enough to avoid those pitfalls.

That doesn't mean that there are not issues, however. If players report instances where a fear reaper can spawn in areas the players can never get to we do want to address those. We can also look at how fear reaper activate, to cut down on these types of incidents.

Sev~

This screams two things to me:

1. You didn't read the thread because you would have seen the listed examples. Or you did read the thread, saw the examples, and just don't know the game well enough to recognize it. That's scary.

2. You don't know how to fix many cases of this (or it's too cost prohibitive) and it's just easier to declare it "WAI". Honestly that's just lazy. Another abandoned system.

I seriously had a lot of hope with your departure from Turbine. But the issues that were present then are seemingly only compounded now. Customer Service and game quality. They're all just getting worse as time goes on.