Fix Fear Reapers

[Niminae]

- The Thrill of the Hunt: Fear Reaper spawned in a cage. Impossible to reach, impossible to DPS down using AoE spells, impossible to deal 40% of boss' HP to open the cages in a timely manner.

My bolds for emphasis. If you can't deal enough DPS in a timely manner, that is the exact definition of "perhaps you should be playing on a lower difficulty level."

But this is the only case of those you provided where having a more capable character would allow you to work around the issue.

The bottom line seems to be: Does it suck that this happens occasionally? Yes. Are the devs aware that this happens occasionally? Yes. Your choices seem to be to play those quests you have identified on a lower difficulty level, or to not play them at all, or to deal with the cases where you run into this situation. Your in game choices, that is.

Out of game it looks like you're doing all you can also: You're making the community aware of the issue and perhaps keeping the issue on the devs radar. But history shows that issues like this one, which have a distinct 'work around' that a player can implement via their in game choices, have rarely been on the top of the devs list for spending time fixing them. Love, hate, or do not care about that reality as you see fit, but it does seem to be the case.

[Faltout]

Given that you have no idea what you are talking about, you'd think you wouldn't talk about it or against the fix. Or I would expect you to read Rys' reply, at least.

Broken Fear Reapers already found in:

- Memoirs.

Identified by the devs, solution was to close the quest. We wanted to keep it open. Anything more said, like "fix it another way" is pointless since they told us "We can't/won't fix it in another way"

- Lesson in Deception: Fear Reaper spawning behind a door that can be unlocked only from the other side (close to end fight), impossible to reach in a timely manner or in any other way.

1) Use one person to initially aggro the reaper.
2) Go past the reaper.
3) Party heal each other, except the person that had reaper aggro.
4) Let person die.
5) Wait for dot to disappear.
6) Raise.
7) Continue
You'll ask: How should we know when to let one person to initially aggro the reaper.
The answer is: Reaper is a difficulty that the dungeon master is actively trying to kill you using unfair mechanisms that would not make sense from a quest perspective. As such, the player must use equally unfair mechanisms to overcome those difficulties. Equally unfair mechanisms include: cakes, jibber's blade, prior quest knowledge, understanding of how the aggro works in the code. Thus, letting the party wipe and then using a jibber's blade or knowing that a reaper might spawn in an unfortunate location before reaching that location is fair play in this unfair field.

You've asked: Maybe I'm supposed to die to get through a bugged mob there you say
The answer is: YES. Players have been using this tactic in many quests. Xorian Cipher pops to mind to get past traps if you don't have a trapper. Soloing abbot comes to mind... You must expect death in reaper. And sometimes, not from legitimate sources like a monster one-shotting you. This problem would not exist on elite difficulty. Play that if you want a "fair" experience without the need to use metagaming.

- The Thrill of the Hunt: Fear Reaper spawned in a cage. Impossible to reach, impossible to DPS down using AoE spells, impossible to deal 40% of boss' HP to open the cages in a timely manner.

Same tactic as Lesson in Deception. Let party member die and go past the reaper.

- The Tracker's Trap: Fear Reaper spawned BENEATH the floor, where the spike traps [b]can[b] be. If there is no trap, the Reaper gets stuck there and it's impossible to reach.

That seems like a bug. If there are no monsters intended to spawn there, the reaper shouldn't either. In the same category as tor blue dragon fight where tons of reapers spawn.

- Ghost of a Chance: Fear Reaper spawned behind a barrier. Cannot get to it before clearing 2 rooms.

Too bad. Clear them faster. Which apparently is what you did, since you finished the quest.
However, take note that there is a different way to enter the room the reaper was in. Go underwater through the passage of spiders and open the way. Then you'd be behind the reaper without the reaper initially aggroing.

[Wizza]

My bolds for emphasis. If you can't deal enough DPS in a timely manner, that is the exact definition of "perhaps you should be playing on a lower difficulty level."

But this is the only case of those you provided where having a more capable character would allow you to work around the issue.

The bottom line seems to be: Does it suck that this happens occasionally? Yes. Are the devs aware that this happens occasionally? Yes. Your choices seem to be to play those quests you have identified on a lower difficulty level, or to not play them at all, or to deal with the cases where you run into this situation. Your in game choices, that is.

Out of game it looks like you're doing all you can also: You're making the community aware of the issue and perhaps keeping the issue on the devs radar. But history shows that issues like this one, which have a distinct 'work around' that a player can implement via their in game choices, have rarely been on the top of the devs list for spending time fixing them. Love, hate, or do not care about that reality as you see fit, but it does seem to be the case.

Thanks for pointing out my choices, which were kinda obvious. I can either choose to not run quests, or to have a non-enjoyable exprience. I don't think either of those are great choices.

History shows that Turbine doesn't fix bugs, yes. I think that is a problem.

[Eryhn]

jeez, this thread. to all those people saying bugs is the new challenge and not even buying such excuse from SSG after they come up with it but proactively creating it for them in the first place I can only say: Congratulations, you deserve the state of the game that we have, and worse. as for the "worse", to quote, you help "creating it" - thanks much for nothing.

smh

[Sam-u-r-eye]

jeez, this thread. to all those people saying bugs is the new challenge and not even buying such excuse from SSG after they come up with it but proactively creating it for them in the first place I can only say: Congratulations, you deserve the state of the game that we have, and worse. as for the "worse", to quote, you help "creating it" - thanks much for nothing.

smh

I hear ya.

If it is a low priority bug then I'd rather have content.
When content is low quality I complain until the next pack comes out.
If enough people complain it gets looked at---if not---or if SSG/Turbine has been lazy---then it stays that way...
I'm actually okay with that.

Good example being talked about here: red alert from dogs in Thrill of the Hunt.
An encounter shouldn't feature red alert as the challenge. There are developer quotes stating they don't intend that. So what should we do?

Complain early and often.
I complained about fear reapers on Lammania and they were nerfed heavily---in the way I wanted?
No, but I know the team does its best, at least most of the time.
I complained on Lammania about them agro'ing through doors.
The criticism just wasn't made repeatedly or loud enough.

I would rather have quality of the next system though---itz allllaboutdaaaashineessssss

[zehnvhex]

Well, we already know that reaper is an abandoned system. They fixed the icons and that's been it for balance updates or fixes. They didn't build reaper with any kind of modularity in mind either. The Indian guy that got fired after Infinite Crisis bombed that they got on the cheap to program reaper mode for them doesn't play DDO. So he would have no idea that fear reapers could be a problem and didn't put a way to turn ~just~ fear reapers off on quests where they are an issue.

I'm sure QA is busy posting questions to spiceworks on how to fix it hoping someone will give them the answer but until they come through for us, all we can do is learn how to...and I quote, "Git gud." I mean I can't really fault Sam for being an SSG apologist in this. We've spent the last 11 years working around and beating dungeons despite (and sometimes because of) the bugs in the game.

Personally, I take the Fear Reapers spawning behind walls/locked doors/etc...as punishment for all those years of abusing safe spots in Shroud.

[meleehater]

They can't fix what they don't understand.

[slarden]

I certainly understand where some of the sarcasm is coming from, but this is actually a legitimate issue that should be addressed. It can usually be worked around, but clearly buggy behavior.

[Wizza]

Well, we already know that reaper is an abandoned system. They fixed the icons and that's been it for balance updates or fixes.

It is. Developers are afk till next patch on forums, but you will see them active on the other non-official channels, which is lul.

That being said, this bug should still be addressed.

[Knobull]

You'd have rollback to pre-U19 code to fix this. All mobs agro through walls now.

[Wizza]

You'd have rollback to pre-U19 code to fix this. All mobs agro through walls now.

Yes, that is a bug that should be fixed.

[Eryhn]

You'd have rollback to pre-U19 code to fix this. All mobs agro through walls now.

i might remember wrong but i think that was a part of the AI changes at the time and as such is WAI. which doesnt change the fact that I consider it BS :P

[Rys]

Anyone has experience with fear reapers in Inferno?

[ForwardWu]

The DDO community is getting so crazy that considering BUG as challenge......no wonder why the game is dying.......

[meleehater]

The DDO community is getting so crazy that considering BUG as challenge......no wonder why the game is dying.......

This, someone will suggest to cut off your arm for extra challenge next.

[Wizza]

The DDO community is getting so crazy that considering BUG as challenge......no wonder why the game is dying.......

Yes.

Also agreeing with me that it is, indeed, a bug, at the same time. And trying to compare it to traps.

Erhyn said it best:

Congratulations, you deserve the state of the game that we have, and worse. as for the "worse", to quote, you help "creating it" - thanks much for nothing.

smh

But hey..don't fix bugs because they have to create content!!!111!!1!11!111

Small edit: another Fear Reaper + broken aggro mechanic combo: End of the Road. Fear Reaper aggroing from unknown places lol

[DaggomaticDwarf]

Anyone has experience with fear reapers in Inferno?

But we were lucky, it was at the end so we healed through it, killed boss and got the "F" out. I had 20ish dots before recall.

[Eryhn]

Anyone has experience with fear reapers in Inferno?

yes. they do spawn on a side you left, behind you and cause confusion (off an ely killed near portal before shifting sides, happened once a while ago). you DO have enough time to go back and find them, probably (well on heroic r2 it was ok to take a minute to grasp whats goin on and then go find it )

[Wizza]

But we were lucky, it was at the end so we healed through it, killed boss and got the "F" out. I had 20ish dots before recall.

yes. they do spawn on a side you left, behind you and cause confusion (off an ely killed near portal before shifting sides, happened once a while ago). you DO have enough time to go back and find them, probably (well on heroic r2 it was ok to take a minute to grasp whats goin on and then go find it )

Ew. Seems like another case of Fear Reapers being challenging!

/s

[Chai]

Personally, I take the Fear Reapers spawning behind walls/locked doors/etc...as punishment for all those years of abusing safe spots in Shroud.

This is kind of hilarious actually. I remember all of the arguments in previous eras justifying "safe spots" and even calling it smart use of tactics, even in circumstances where it was just as cheesy as fear reapers ability to stack DOTs on the entire party while behind walls. An example would be people vehemently defending perching and crit fishing with firewalls as the best method to farm epic scrolls in that meta.