Dragonborn Breath - No level in DC?

[GeoffWatson]

The DC formula for the Dragonborns' breath weapon doesn't include character level, so the DC is too low in high level quests.

Please add Character Level (or half) to the DC.

[Enoach]

Dragonborn's Dragon Breath

Damage
Cone that deals 1d6 + 3 [red fire/white cold/black acid/blue electric] damage per caster level (reflex save for half).
Gets full Metamagic feats
Scales with 50% of spell power.

Saves/DC
No SR
Counts as Evocation spell

DC 10 + CHA mod + Evocation bonuses + Breath Weapon bonuses.


I will agree that if you put very little into it you are not going to get much out of it. Especially as a Reflex Save...

I think if you play this out with an investment in mind with gear, feats for evocation and twists for DCs you won't necessarily put this at the highest DC possible, but even adding character level will not make a minimal dedication worth. Dragon Breath is one of those enhancements that will be more beneficial to builds that capitalize on Charisma (Sorcerer, Warlock and to some extent Paladin) and even more with Caster Types that utilize Spell Focus.

Adding character level could add as much as 30 DC, placing the DCs of nearly zero investment between (Assumes starting 10 cha, no gear for DCs and at least +8 cha item) 40 to 50ish DC, and Full investments of over 100 DC (Assumes a Caster type focused on Evocation with enhancements and past lives).

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I think Character Level would add too much. I think a better approach would be to adjust the Dragonborn Enhancements by adding +1 Breath Weapon for Each Core.

With the +1 Breath DC for each Core and +3 From the Current Power In Breath it would make the Dragon Breath equal to the potential DC of a Level 8 Evocation Spell.

[Pororoca]

Dragonbreath is a very niche ability that can really only be utilized by someone determined to make it work,
and this is a good thing. As it stands now it sits on the precipice of more game busting power creep, and the overall
synergy with warlock is concerning for what's left of fun.

I think SSG knows most warlocks are lazy creatures by default and thus introduced breath DC's in lieu of the tried and true
character level DC's, scattering the power around like the Dragonballs. It puts everyone who wants to use Dragonbreath in
the awkward position of hunting down garbage loot and having buyer's remorse in their enhancement trees at the same time.
Most people will save themselves the trouble, warlocks assuredly will. Nothing puts more fear into the heart of a warlock than
having to make an effort.

[Chai]

There are +3 breath weapon DC and +3 evocation DC in dragon born tree.

10 start
3 evocation in dragonborn tree
3 breathweapon in dragonborn tree
25 cha mod (cha of 60) not the max cha by far
9 loot gen goggles with 6 evocation and 3 insightful evocation
1 spell focus evocation
5 twists from dragonic + magister for evocation DC.
3 sorc lives
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59 - this is before class AP bought evocation DC is considered, or other feats, and mobs at level 30 will save on a 2. To push this and have synergy, you need to be a cha class, find the loot that has quality DCs, invest more feats, invest your legendary feat, etc. Furthermore, it already functions as if all mobs save and dont have evasion, even before a save is rolled, as it scales with 50% spell power.

TL;DR? As a pure melee, or any other "non-full-investment" class / build, if you use it, no investment required. Mobs save on a 2 anyhow....

[SirValentine]

Counts as Evocation spell

DC 10 + CHA mod + Evocation bonuses + Breath Weapon bonuses.

I'm going to half-agree with the OP here.

Is is a spell, or a breath weapon? If it's a breath weapon, it should not count as an Evo spell and should not get Evo bonuses.

If it's an Evo spell, that's fine, but then it shouldn't get special Breath Weapon bonuses.

Figure out which of those 2 it really is, remove bonuses for the other, and then, also add half character level.

Simply adding half-character level while also letting it double-dip on those other bonuses would put it out of line with other abilities.

[Steve_Howe]

So, been thinking about how to make DB's breath weapon work. Looks like Sorc in either Earth or Air Savant is the only practical way.

Air (Electric) Savant

10 Base
35 Charisma Mod (80 CHA...not absolute best, but pretty good)
7 Dragon Eyes (new goggles from The Newcomers)
3 Power in Breath (DB racial tree)
3 Spell Focus feats
6 Evocation (Equipment Bonus)
3 True Power (+ to Evocation) DB racial tree
5 Epic Destiny twists
2 Greater Evocation augment (Enhancement bonus)
3 Insightful Spell Focus III (Robe or Leathers of the Celestial Sage)
4 Scion of Air (Legendary Feat)
2 Embolden (Epic feat)
3 Sorc lives
2 Quality Spell Focus II (Epic Increased Potential Orb)
1 Evocation Focus (Air Savant Tier 5)
--
89

For an Earth Savant, the DC would be an 88 (No Evocation Focus from the Air Savant tree).

Of course, you'd also have all the good metamagic feats including Empower, Maximize, Intensify, Embolden, an Quicken.

I'm struggling with the Electric vs. Acid choice, though. If I choose Electric, the breath weapon and many of my spells would be almost worthless in the new raid. Acid would certainly work in the new raid but wouldn't be all that great against the Evil Outsider content and the DC would be one lower.

Decisions, decisions.

[GeoffWatson]

I'm struggling with the Electric vs. Acid choice, though. If I choose Electric, the breath weapon and many of my spells would be almost worthless in the new raid. Acid would certainly work in the new raid but wouldn't be all that great against the Evil Outsider content and the DC would be one lower.

Decisions, decisions.

Demons are immune to Electricity, so Acid would be better for them - depends on which Evil Outsiders you're after.