Where have the Alts gone? Also problems for new players.

[Gramh_the_Bard]

That the devs should ignore the meta because players can choose to ignore the meta is probably the dumbest thing I have ever seen on these forums.

That's probably the dumbest misinterpretation of a statement I've ever seen on these forums.

[Avantasian]

That's probably the dumbest misinterpretation of a statement I've ever seen on these forums.

So what did you mean?

[slarden]

Making players focus on one character is not making the game harder.

I just use myself as an example. I have 6 really really sold alts and 6 that only have a few lifes each. If I could share all my xp and cap reaper my #12 alt becomes more powerful in reaper than someone's main that was working on heroic completionist but not running reaper.

It seems wrong that my #12 alt I pull out a few times a year for testing is more powerful than someone's main they've been working hard on all year. It seems out of balance big time to me.

It completely distorts progression.

[Gramh_the_Bard]

I meant that players who are concerned with the meta should follow the meta and not worry about Alts, and those who enjoy Alts shouldn't concern themselves with the meta. It's an excersize in futility to bring everybody into the meta or you ruin the game.

[Wonedream]

Alts don't need past lives to be competitive. Alts do not need Reaper Xp to be competitive. With those two truths in mind, what is stopping you from playing Alts but yourselves?

How your mind works not mine. Some are like you, others like me. It would help to realize not everyone is like you.

For me, alts need to be able to handle what the game has to offer in terms of challenge to be competitive. If the game offers R10, alts need to be able to handle that or they are at a competitive disadvantage over toons that can. In order to get that, PLs and all become a huge asset, but take long long time to get. Life is limited, and its already many years to get just main caught up, so no, alts are not competitive enough to play for people like me that think like I think.

If you dont mind casual, sure, people like you can run em on casual or on low reaper content and call that competitive.

[Gramh_the_Bard]

How your mind works not mine. Some are like you, others like me. It would help to realize not everyone is like you.

For me, alts need to be able to handle what the game has to offer in terms of challenge to be competitive. If the game offers R10, alts need to be able to handle that or they are at a competitive disadvantage over toons that can. In order to get that, PLs and all become a huge asset, but take long long time to get. Life is limited, and its already many years to get just main caught up, so no, alts are not competitive enough to play for people like me that think like I think.

If you dont mind casual, sure, people like you can run em on casual or on low reaper content and call that competitive.

A person who can run r10 can do it with a completionist toon or a first lifer with the same gear. You may feel more comfortable with more past lives because you play bad and anything you can get as an edge will help you theoretically compensate your play style but until you get better you'll still be only as good as you would be on a first life toon.

[Avantasian]

I just use myself as an example. I have 6 really really sold alts and 6 that only have a few lifes each. If I could share all my xp and cap reaper my #12 alt becomes more powerful in reaper than someone's main that was working on heroic completionist but not running reaper.

It seems wrong that my #12 alt I pull out a few times a year for testing is more powerful than someone's main they've been working hard on all year. It seems out of balance big time to me.

It completely distorts progression.

Doesn't seem wrong to me. If the other player had played reaper as much as you they would have been more powerful than you in that situation.

But to the point I was making, it would not have been harder for the other player than for you to get the same reaper experience.

[Wonedream]

A person who can run r10 can do it with a completionist toon or a first lifer with the same gear. You may feel more comfortable with more past lives because you play bad and anything you can get as an edge will help you theoretically compensate your play style but until you get better you'll still be only as good as you would be on a first life toon.

Listening to you go on about how you are so good is boring.

Ill take you on any day and tavern PvP if you think your so good! And Ill probably win! I play harder then you know, because you don't know you assume. Which is how you are able to boast all the time and add BS like mini-thor Im so great nonsense to your tag. I think you have a little sword... and dont know how to swing it! I think this the more you talk about how great your are... compensating for a little ego maybe???

And no, here you are talking more trash, anyone who does R10 will know you are talking trash, this is not true what you say, gear is not enough on R10, or make a video and prove me wrong. If you can't then do not expect to change my mind one bit ever, I already did R10 and know what it is about. Prove it if you can.

If its all about skill which is a big part but so is PLs... then make a first life, level it to 20, one life only and meet me with a one life toon at some tavern to figure out if your skills are so superior to mine. I will beat the **** out of your toon SOOO hard you will stop playing for a week or two!

My total of 100+ alt knowledge will be readily available... along with my skills and pvp focused build, and I will easily prove you wrong.

No using your PLs since it is contrary to your claim to do so. I haven't any confidence in you, it will be fun turning you into a soul stone in some PvP tavern.

[Avantasian]

I meant that players who are concerned with the meta should follow the meta and not worry about Alts, and those who enjoy Alts shouldn't concern themselves with the meta. It's an excersize in futility to bring everybody into the meta or you ruin the game.

So i didn't misinterpet you at all. You are saying that the devs should not care about the meta because players can choose to ignore the meta.

What I am saying that players can get increased variety and thus prolonged and/or increased satisfaction with the game by playing alts, to pit that against the meta, which is basically defined as that which players are concerned about, creates a situation where no one wins. What is the point of doing that?

[Wonedream]

So i didn't misinterpet you at all. You are saying that the devs should not care about the meta because players can choose to ignore the meta.

What I am saying that players can get increased variety and thus prolonged and/or increased satisfaction with the game by playing alts, to pit that against the meta, which is basically defined as that which players are concerned about, creates a situation where no one wins. What is the point of doing that?

Copy that Rodger!

+++

[Gramh_the_Bard]

So i didn't misinterpet you at all. You are saying that the devs should not care about the meta because players can choose to ignore the meta.

What I am saying that players can get increased variety and thus prolonged and/or increased satisfaction with the game by playing alts, to pit that against the meta, which is basically defined as that which players are concerned about, creates a situation where no one wins. What is the point of doing that?

I never said anything about Devs. Devs create the rules from which the meta arises, yes, but they can't make the meta go away. Alts by their very existence lie outside of the meta. Trying to force Alts to be part of the meta ruins the progression system that is an RPG.

[Gramh_the_Bard]

Listening to you go on about how you are so good is boring.

Ill take you on any day and tavern PvP if you think your so good! And Ill probably win! I play harder then you know, because you don't know you assume. Which is how you are able to boast all the time and add BS like mini-thor Im so great nonsense to your tag. I think you have a little sword... and dont know how to swing it! I think this the more you talk about how great your are... compensating for a little ego maybe???

And no, here you are talking more trash, anyone who does R10 will know you are talking trash, this is not true what you say, gear is not enough on R10, or make a video and prove me wrong. If you can't then do not expect to change my mind one bit ever, I already did R10 and know what it is about. Prove it if you can.

If its all about skill which is a big part but so is PLs... then make a first life, level it to 20, one life only and meet me with a one life toon at some tavern to figure out if your skills are so superior to mine. I will beat the **** out of your toon SOOO hard you will stop playing for a week or two!

My total of 100+ alt knowledge will be readily available... along with my skills and pvp focused build, and I will easily prove you wrong.

No using your PLs since it is contrary to your claim to do so. I haven't any confidence in you, it will be fun turning you into a soul stone in some PvP tavern.

Threatening me with PVP shows just how misguided you are about the game.

[nokowi]

Let's comment on how players say they choose to play reaper, with a focus on those that are reward focused.

1. R1-R5 farm whatever is non challenging on their main.
2. R6-R10 and complain about the length of the quest (RXP/min is not "balanced") rather than how to make the quest more exciting.

DDO players overwhelmingly play for efficiency by the time they get to reaper capability.

A key argument by those that want shared RXP (reward based forumites) is that it will allow them to play their alts. (More accurately they will refuse to play alts if their demand is not made) .

One simple question, when RXP is shared, what will the easiest route to get RXP be?

1. Playing an alt
2. Playing a main

Would a reward based player take the easy path (more powerful main) or take the slower path (lower reaper setting on an alt)?


I'm going to say the vast majority of reaper players will do EXACTLY what they already do with reaper, which is take the easy route for faster rewards rather than the more challenging route.

I think dev's would be absolutely insane to listen to these shared RXP requests.

They won't do what those asking for easier rewards claim they would do, as efficiency says to stay on your main anyway.

If you care about developing your alts, you can currently play and develop your alts. With the shared RXP implementation, efficiency says you are better off staying on your main to develop your alts. That would be a terrible design choice.

[nokowi]

I have already proven that you do not understand the motivations people have for this. More personal attacks won't make you less wrong.

What will happen when it goes live is more important than anyone's motivations.

I could care less about your motivation, but the idea for shared RXP is really bad.

I've given specifics, and there is no interest in discussing specifics. That's because the idea is not very good.

The hope would be to generate enough forum support without discussing the real impacts on the game (revealing why it is a bad idea), but we already saw that effort failed in a shared RXP poll.

All we have is false statements about how devs can easily fix power discrepancies, how important shared RXP is to new players, and how players that demand all rewards are going to choose to get shared RXP at a slower pace on their alts instead of playing their main.

All of these ideas are really really weak.

[nokowi]

It's not difficult for him or anyone to understand it's a request to make things easier. It's why more people voted against this idea in the poll than voted for it. Turbine has a long history of caving to people asking for things to be easier so the odds are high they will respond to at least some of your requests and then people can complain in a few years (or less) how things are too easy again.

I can say specifically that the motivation and general support for shared RXP is making rewards easier.

I can't say specifically what any one player's beliefs will be.

It is certainly possible someone wants to play their alts, refuses to do so in the current game, and can't conceptualize what would happen if shared RXP went live.


I find it unlikely that anyone not willing to discuss how to make alts better really cares about making alts better.

I find it unlikely that someone that says they will do this but never actually discusses improving alts with anything other than shared RXP is truly that interested in improving alts.

I can say all these things without making any assumptions about any particular player.

They fall under the idea that actions speak louder than words.

[Gremmlynn]

Grouping was killed by self healing, hirelings, power creep and Monty Haul

It, as well as all those things, have a lot to do with the way DDO content is set up. The game has a tendency of getting in the way of grouping by not being very "come and go as you please" in nature, among other things.

[Avantasian]

Let's comment on how players say they choose to play reaper, with a focus on those that are reward focused.

1. R1-R5 farm whatever is non challenging on their main.
2. R6-R10 and complain about the length of the quest (RXP/min is not "balanced") rather than how to make the quest more exciting.

DDO players overwhelmingly play for efficiency by the time they get to reaper capability.

A key argument by those that want shared RXP (reward based forumites) is that it will allow them to play their alts. (More accurately they will refuse to play alts if their demand is not made) .

One simple question, when RXP is shared, what will the easiest route to get RXP be?

1. Playing an alt
2. Playing a main

Would a reward based player take the easy path (more powerful main) or take the slower path (lower reaper setting on an alt)?


I'm going to say the vast majority of reaper players will do EXACTLY what they already do with reaper, which is take the easy route for faster rewards rather than the more challenging route.

I think dev's would be absolutely insane to listen to these shared RXP requests.

They won't do what those asking for easier rewards claim they would do, as efficiency says to stay on your main anyway.

If you care about developing your alts, you can currently play and develop your alts. With the shared RXP implementation, efficiency says you are better off staying on your main to develop your alts. That would be a terrible design choice.

Your post is completely wrong. Here is why: RXP + PL > Slightly faster RXP.

[Wizza]

Your post is completely wrong. Here is why: RXP + PL > Slightly faster RXP.

Besides, but a "reward player" (?) might like getting slower rewards even with an Alt if he had the chance. I know I would, and probably I'm not alone.

But hey..they know better, they know everything

[Rys]

A key argument by those that want shared RXP (reward based forumites) is that it will allow them to play their alts. (More accurately they will refuse to play alts if their demand is not made) .

One simple question, when RXP is shared, what will the easiest route to get RXP be?

1. Playing an alt
2. Playing a main

Would a reward based player take the easy path (more powerful main) or take the slower path (lower reaper setting on an alt)?

Wanna hear a secret? R10 is easier on my alt than on my main. Boom.

[AbyssalMage]

Wanna hear a secret? R10 is easier on my alt than on my main. Boom.

May I ponder that your main is melee based and your alt is ranged/caster based?