Where have the Alts gone? Also problems for new players.

[Uska]

I do want an easy button to play with people though.

That seems to be hard nowadays, play with people (at your level range). Sell me easy button please?

Grouping was killed by self healing, hirelings, power creep and Monty Haul

[nokowi]

Which group of "fanatics" are you referring to. The 59 people that voted AGAINST account-wide xp or the 48 that voted for it:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/poll.php?...do=showresults

You make it sound like there is this vast majority of people that want account wide xp, but there is no indication from forum discussion or the poll this is true. It's a topic with split opinions so there is no point in the devs wasting time on it.

+1

The problem with the forums is really those that are unable to process information that disagrees with their preference, along with the inability for most forumites to understand that the game has to try and deal with multiple, and usually varying preferences.

[Livmo]

No sharing.

Bug fixes, continue Class Enhnacment passes, new content (Ravenloft), refresh some older content/tweak to fit modern times + loot.

Just ask for Reaper Boxes already if you don't have the patience for the rewards.

[Wizza]

Grouping was killed by self healing, hirelings, power creep and Monty Haul

Hirelings lol

[Sam-u-r-eye]

It's a topic with split opinions so there is no point in the devs wasting time on it.

That's not true at all.
I've been seeing a 25-50% increase in player population (~300-350 a night on ghallanda up to about ~400-450) lately.
Reaper was genuinely opposed by a lot of people.
As was Racial Reincarnation.
As was rXP.

Not all updates, builds, play-styles, etc. are for everyone.
Because a significant portion of the population would increase their playtime, or retention is enough to consider an idea.
Hence the OP.

Pleasure is not a democracy---since it occurs on an individual level.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

The problem with the forums is really those that are unable to process information that disagrees with their preference, along with the inability for most forumites to understand that the game has to try and deal with multiple, and usually varying preferences.

Its funny how people see this as evidence against ideas. Kinda silly.

[RoberttheBard]

That's not true at all.
I've been seeing a 25-50% increase in player population (~300-350 a night on ghallanda up to about ~400-450) lately.
Reaper was genuinely opposed by a lot of people.
As was Racial Reincarnation.
As was rXP.

Not all updates, builds, play-styles, etc. are for everyone.
Because a significant portion of the population would increase their playtime, or retention is enough to consider an idea.
Hence the OP.

Pleasure is not a democracy---since it occurs on an individual level.

How many of those are brand new players?

How many of those are brand new players that expect that they should just be handed what people that have been here for years have?

Citations needed for "significant portion of the population" doing anything, since you contradict your statement while making it with "not all playstyles are for everyone". As someone that's played significantly more than one MMO, I can tell you, there are new players that understand exactly what being new in an MMO with an established player base means. I'll explain that: It means that players are going to have things that they don't. It means that players are going to have capped toons when they don't. They also don't believe that the first thing they should do is go to the forums screaming that they need to have all that stuff handed to them because "it's not fair".

What about those for whom the pleasure is derived from the journey, instead of the destination? They don't count, because they aren't on board with the agenda? Is that why you chose to snip the actual poll that shows that not only is the majority not on board with "give it to me now", but that it's not even a significant portion of the game's population, even when we add both sides together? All I've seen is a lot of hyperbole to support "give it to me now", making your sig even more ironic.

[slarden]

That's not true at all.
I've been seeing a 25-50% increase in player population (~300-350 a night on ghallanda up to about ~400-450) lately.
Reaper was genuinely opposed by a lot of people.
As was Racial Reincarnation.
As was rXP.

Not all updates, builds, play-styles, etc. are for everyone.
Because a significant portion of the population would increase their playtime, or retention is enough to consider an idea.
Hence the OP.

Pleasure is not a democracy---since it occurs on an individual level.

Of course it's true that there is a split opinion on the topic. Opinions on the topic vary in all the threads covering it. The poll that was done slightly leans in favor of NOT allowing shared rxp. I am not sure there is any way you can argue that the player base highly supports sharing of rxp account-wide.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/poll.php?...do=showresults

With the current level of support (at best half support and half are opposed) why would the devs waste time on this when they could get most of the community to rally around new content or something else.

[nokowi]

Its funny how people see this as evidence against ideas. Kinda silly.

When a player applies their preference to the whole game without recognizing the thoughts of others, and demands their opinion is the only correct one, it makes discussion difficult.

If you interpret that as "evidence against ideas", the problem is in your comprehension.

I myself argue against shared RXP, because I recognize the issue it causes with rewarding people for only playing their main, and shortening the life of reaper to a year or less for top players. I also recognize that the demand for even more shared things (beyond RXP) will be equally valid to the demand for shared RXP. I am interested in other ways people that think there is a problem can feel that alts are more beneficial. That is an example of someone that considers the opinions of others, and the consequences of a decision on the game.

When the people pushing for shared RXP refuse to talk about alternatives to their problem of alts, or recognize any negative impacts, it becomes clear that they are interested in their one change and not in actually solving the problem. When someones posts are solely focused on RXP, and unwilling to look at other solutions (even when asked), I question their motives.

[Wonedream]

Alts huh... what...

Havent played any since reaper update.

I plan on it, but realistically I am just holding on to them hoping SSG wisens up and does something to make them worth investing time or money in that doesnt require brain pain repeat beyond what the main already is doing.

If my main runs out of TRs and the game is how it is for alts now, I still wont bother to play them.. I will play OTHER GAMES, and maybe play them now and then. I might even delete them after all this time, saying.. ah **** it... SSG never cared about alts or the money they could help bring in, why should I?

And as it is now, not playing them.

And warnings to new people... alts are a dead end waste of time in this game as it is, if you play alts you are in for a big bummer eventually. It will just hit you like... sudden enlightenment... from one moment to the next... "this is fun... lala la alaa... wait a second... this is BS... ". For me it was like that, I didnt listen to the warnings giving years prior to reaper and racial... even before epics people where wise and kind enough to warn me but I said "lalalalalalaaa" and found out the hard way years later I wasted all that time.

It creates resentment. I do not feel compelled to play as nice and instead look more at it as something to exploit vengefully against. I play my main, I stick to my template, screw loser classes that dont work, screw stealth in reaper, dont do risky quests along, leave slow groups, kick or ditch newbie pikers with dumb expectations, don't have patience to explain stuff to noobs... all because I resent this insanely long hamster wheel and total lack of ENDGAME.. yes, those wise ones that spoke of this, and how this game would crumble eventually if ENDGAME got ignored and we just kept pumping more into the hamster wheel reality....


I feel sorry for people playing alts. I miss playing em myself... but meh... no.



Alts are not worth using beyond mules, and even that isn't really that important.

[nokowi]

I plan on it, but realistically I am just holding on to them hoping SSG wisens up and does something to make them worth investing time or money in that doesnt require brain pain repeat beyond what the main already is doing.

Variety of play is key to making alts have a good experience. The class passes did not focus on variety, they tended to share existing abilities and make things more similar.

Reasons people don't play alts go far beyond "I must have everything".

Looking at solutions that only meet the needs of the "I must have everything" crowd is really a disservice to the rest of those players that want a better alt experience.

[KoobTheProud]

Grouping was killed by self healing, hirelings, power creep and Monty Haul

Yes, and also by a very self-centered player base that was looking at XP-favor/min above everything else.

[Hoglum]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/poll.php?...do=showresults

A little off topic but, wow, is this supposed to show who voted for what?

[RoberttheBard]

Alts huh... what...

Havent played any since reaper update.

I plan on it, but realistically I am just holding on to them hoping SSG wisens up and does something to make them worth investing time or money in that doesnt require brain pain repeat beyond what the main already is doing.

What is it you were planning on doing with them when you rolled them, coming to the forums insisting that anything you'd done on your main should already be applied to them? Because anything short of that sort of takes the "bite" out of "I'm no longer playing them".

If my main runs out of TRs and the game is how it is for alts now, I still wont bother to play them.. I will play OTHER GAMES, and maybe play them now and then. I might even delete them after all this time, saying.. ah **** it... SSG never cared about alts or the money they could help bring in, why should I?

Then delete them now. There is no justifiable reason to apply all the benefits one farmed on their mains to their alts. There are tons of "but I don't want to" posts, but that's not a reason, that's an excuse. Delete 'em all, provide some screenshots to prove how sincere you are, or please stop with "give me what I want, or I'll go away".

And as it is now, not playing them.

And warnings to new people... alts are a dead end waste of time in this game as it is, if you play alts you are in for a big bummer eventually. It will just hit you like... sudden enlightenment... from one moment to the next... "this is fun... lala la alaa... wait a second... this is BS... ". For me it was like that, I didnt listen to the warnings giving years prior to reaper and racial... even before epics people where wise and kind enough to warn me but I said "lalalalalalaaa" and found out the hard way years later I wasted all that time.

Warning to new people: Reading the forums should always be taken with a grain of salt. Always consider the source when reading posts; for example: "I want all my past lives, RXP, Epic PLs applied to my alts, or I'm going to delete them" should be a clear indicator of someone to ignore when considering playing a game or not. They're not looking out for you. They're looking out for "I want it, but I don't want to work for it, so SSG should just hand it to me". That's their agenda, not trying to "help" a new player, they don't care about you, new player, they care about their agenda, and that's it.

It creates resentment. I do not feel compelled to play as nice and instead look more at it as something to exploit vengefully against. I play my main, I stick to my template, screw loser classes that dont work, screw stealth in reaper, dont do risky quests along, leave slow groups, kick or ditch newbie pikers with dumb expectations, don't have patience to explain stuff to noobs... all because I resent this insanely long hamster wheel and total lack of ENDGAME.. yes, those wise ones that spoke of this, and how this game would crumble eventually if ENDGAME got ignored and we just kept pumping more into the hamster wheel reality....


I feel sorry for people playing alts. I miss playing em myself... but meh... no.



Alts are not worth using beyond mules, and even that isn't really that important.

Resentment, or epeen envy?

[Wonedream]

Robert the Bard (mister "I am better then you") it is amusing to see you pour yourself into a reply like that.


You can tell me what to do, but do you really think I am going to do what you tell me to do?

Keep trying in vain :P

My alts are mules and that is

the End of it.

[Gramh_the_Bard]

Your Alts are mules because you said that's all you want to do with them. Also, you rolled 20 Alts, what were you thinking would happen if you did that? >.>

[Wonedream]

Your Alts are mules because you said that's all you want to do with them. Also, you rolled 20 Alts, what were you thinking would happen if you did that? >.>

No I rolled about 100 all up to level 20. I knew what would happen, I just didnt see Reaper and Racials coming up. Its fine, I accept it, and yes, alts can be fun. But if someone wants to complete TRs, alts are dangerous. Thus to those people, I give warning, but they probably dont need it lol they already know.

That comes out to about 50 lifes because of experience difference after 3rd TR. I would much rather have 50 lives in my main seeing how the game is changing right now then a bunch of spread out alts that can't do best challenge. My warning is for others not to end up finding this out for themselves sometime sooner or later. If you don't understand that, I can not make you understand that. It has nothing to do with envy or such, it has to do with personal preference. I did not prefer or concern myself with all these TRs so much until they compiled so high along with challenge I realized taking on that challenge at my best would mean grabbing these goodies as quickly as I can and gearing up.. I can't do Reaper 10 right now... I want a toon that can SOLO that stuff like it or not, I am sure others do to.

If you can get your toon to solo R10, seeing your Mini-Thor Tag, I think you would. Maybe you already do, then good for you. Enjoy the game how you want. And for those who want to get TR complete, which is most of the players I encounter in the game, they will enjoy or endure getting that or both from time to time. If someone isn't in to taken on the highest challenge, then go ahead and play with alts, like I said I would do on casual. They will get a more casual game or they will get killed fast in R10 :P

I did not have the intention of using them as mules at first. It was when it felt like they would be so off par that they become duller. I wouldn't mind running em up to 30 once on casual, so I could abuse their powers and pretend they are complete, get inventory space, and serve my main. The ones of other servers though, they do have some nice goodies, but 26 dollars for a one life mule that I can more easily recreate on the same server as my own does not pan out. I speak as a conservative. Ill trump my bucks whenever and however :P I would like to save em, but... I already did all the prestiges to 20, and I can just just remake them easier and quickly without spending money, or just make a lvl 4 mule with the same name that might one day get to pretend it was complete by abusing casual :P

I like challenge. My main gets good challenge. It tears through content not one of my alts could touch. It tears through content that wipes party after party out (noobs..). It survives stuff even vets wipe on. Yet, there are still better toons out there, I ran with them... and there is plenty of room to improve my main still even though it already rocks things that wipe out most others who would solo same stuff.

Speaking of my main toon, I think Ill go finish off that path I am working on to speed up TRing :P

[RoberttheBard]

Robert the Bard (mister "I am better then you") it is amusing to see you pour yourself into a reply like that.


You can tell me what to do, but do you really think I am going to do what you tell me to do?

Keep trying in vain :P

My alts are mules and that is

the End of it.

Reads as: I know what I said I was going to do, but nobody's supposed to call my bluff.

[slarden]

A little off topic but, wow, is this supposed to show who voted for what?

It's an option when setting up the poll. I didn't vote myself.

[Vint]

You can tell me what to do, but do you really think I am going to do what you tell me to do?

Keep trying in vain :P

My alts are mules and that is

the End of it.

Of course I would never tell you how or what to play, your notion that alts are dead, not worth playing, just builds, banks or mules is just personal preference and not a direct indication of the current game.

I have said it before and I will say it again. I will take a good player with a first life toon over a moron playing a toon with a million PL's. I am not trying to debate you, as you make your own fun in this game, but I don't think the sky is falling.