Where have the Alts gone? Also problems for new players.

[Vanhooger]

People seem to misunderstand what easier means.

Making XP shared does not make the game easier. You get XP zerging mindless R1-R3 quests in Heroic whether the XP is shared or not, so it's will be easy regardless. Let's not pretend that this is how the game is being played. I log in and every single time the LFM looks like this:



Notice how the bar was scrolled to the bottom, 0 epic LFMs.

Absolutely hilarious reading people that keep shouting "No! Reaper was for the challenge!" and then they admit themselves that they don't do higher than R5, but mostly play R1-R3.

This is pretty much the state of the game in my server too.

Rename "the DM is trying to kill you" to "the DM want you to mindless grind on low skull", it will be more accurate.

[changelingamuck]

This was good comedy right here.

We have a small percentage of the population coming on here and asking for the game to be easier for them.

As people come here calling others immature, talking about narcissism and "negative characteristics" let's not forget that people are asking the devs to devote resources to make the game easier for them with account-wide xp sharing. The resources devoted to this activity would take away from other work that can be done to benefit the entire community. As someone that would benefit greatly from account-wide xp I think it's a bad decision to devote resources to making the game easier. Call people whatever names you wish, it doesn't change a thing.

Omg. Do you even realize that I didn't even take a stance on the suggestions in this thread? Have you ever heard of tilting at windmills? Because that's what you're doing.

Call people whatever names you wish, it doesn't change a thing.

This is something that DID NOT HAPPEN. It only happened in your own mind. You're having a good laugh at the "comedy" of happenings that didn't actually transpire in reality.

My interest level in engaging in prolonged game design discussion with the same half dozen post-spammers on this cesspool of a gaming forum who've spent years frantically flooding nearly every page of nearly every thread almost daily with their opinions in a desperate attempt to drown out the voices of others by sheer volume is next to nil. Trying to keep up with the amount of time, energy, and obsessiveness that 'gameguy4456' and 'XXdragonslaykillXX' and 'blastaXtreme3' spend filling up nearly every thread with their attempts to influence computer game developers would turn me into a hollow shell of a human being.

You can keep your precious "Fill In the Blank of X, Y, or Z Game Issue of the Moment". What I object to is the poor argumentation. Post-after-post of strawmen, objective falsehoods, twisting of words into things that bear no resemblance to the statements originally made, etc. etc. I find that form of argumentation sleazy and under-handed.

You literally replied to a post of mine where I pointed out someone making things up about what another poster had said--straight up totally misrepresenting their statements--by flat-out making things up and misrepresenting my statements. I never called anyone "names".

Go find another playmate to fight with you for 10 pages of yet another thread. I'm not willing to participate. If you're going to fight on the playground though, you should play fairly.

[Avantasian]

This is pretty much the state of the game in my server too.

Rename "the DM is trying to kill you" to "the DM want you to mindless grind on low skull", it will be more accurate.

Any suggestion to change this is met with either "why do you care what other people do" or "you just want to make the game easier for yourself".
A handful of fanatics have basically killed constructive discussion.

[Wizza]

Any suggestion to change this is met with either "why do you care what other people do" or "you just want to make the game easier for yourself".
A handful of fanatics have basically killed constructive discussion.

No to easy buttons

[SuperNiCd]

How about dramatically decreasing the amount of XP required on the first three lives only?

That would be both alt and new player friendly. It would be an easy on to the hamster wheel for those so inclined.

The current chart looks like this:

1st Life 1.9M
2nd Life 2.85M
3rd Life+ 3.8M

What if the chart looked like this:

1st Life 400K
2nd Life 650K
3rd Life 850k
4th Life 1.9M
5th Life 2.85M
6th Life+ 3.8M?

I guess of the ideas I've heard to promote alts and make the game more new player friendly, I'm leaning toward liking this one the most. It seems like it would ease the curve a bit for new players and speed up the process for making a viable alt.

One thing I wanted to point out though:

When I was a brand new player back in 2014, I was not at all concerned about zerging out past lives and acquiring power in that way. I was having a blast running new content and building my character's first life power. I was more worried about running out of content than how I was going to rack up PLs. The game was about discovery and wonderment, and I was only dimly aware of the hamster wheels to come.

The first TR was a bit traumatic (in as much as a video game can be traumatic lol) and anti-climatic for me. Trading in all that effort and hard work for a simple +1 to whatever and having to rebuild my character from scratch.

My point here is that slashing the XP requirement for 1st life that dramatically might actually be doing a brand new player more of a disservice and cheating them out of some the enjoyment that you only experience on your first journey around the wheel. IE it might be introducing the grind too early.

[KoobTheProud]

I guess of the ideas I've heard to promote alts and make the game more new player friendly, I'm leaning toward liking this one the most. It seems like it would ease the curve a bit for new players and speed up the process for making a viable alt.

One thing I wanted to point out though:

When I was a brand new player back in 2014, I was not at all concerned about zerging out past lives and acquiring power in that way. I was having a blast running new content and building my character's first life power. I was more worried about running out of content than how I was going to rack up PLs. The game was about discovery and wonderment, and I was only dimly aware of the hamster wheels to come.

The first TR was a bit traumatic (in as much as a video game can be traumatic lol) and anti-climatic for me. Trading in all that effort and hard work for a simple +1 to whatever and having to rebuild my character from scratch.

My point here is that slashing the XP requirement for 1st life that dramatically might actually be doing a brand new player more of a disservice and cheating them out of some the enjoyment that you only experience on your first journey around the wheel. IE it might be introducing the grind too early.

Valid points. I get that not all players are suited for a fast turnaround on their first life after being exposed to the game.

I have one valid counterpoint. They'll be buying Druidic Hearts of Wood to do the TR's and making a money investment in the game because they will not have access to Tokens of the Twelve if they want a fast TR. If they don't want a fast TR, well they'll have a lot of Epics to run to farm up the 20 Tokens on Normal and that will give them some more grounding in the game as well as probably getting them to purchase Epic Destinies in one form or another, either via MotU or directly via the store.

[slarden]

You literally replied to a post of mine where I pointed out someone making things up about what another poster had said--straight up totally misrepresenting their statements--by flat-out making things up and misrepresenting my statements. I never called anyone "names".

Go find another playmate to fight with you for 10 pages of yet another thread. I'm not willing to participate. If you're going to fight on the playground though, you should play fairly.

You were making analogies about narcissists and referring to people disagreeing as having "negative characteristics" and that is exactly what I commented on. I misrepresented nothing. I wasn't referring to you as calling anyone names, but rather some of the bizarre comparisons you were making. I was referring to others with the name-calling and acknowledge I shouldn't have included that in response to your statement. It actually related to one of the other quotes.

[SuperNiCd]

Valid points. I get that not all players are suited for a fast turnaround on their first life after being exposed to the game.

I have one valid counterpoint. They'll be buying Druidic Hearts of Wood to do the TR's and making a money investment in the game because they will not have access to Tokens of the Twelve if they want a fast TR. If they don't want a fast TR, well they'll have a lot of Epics to run to farm up the 20 Tokens on Normal and that will give them some more grounding in the game as well as probably getting them to purchase Epic Destinies in one form or another, either via MotU or directly via the store.

True. And I generally like the idea. Guess I was just saying maybe the proposed curve might be a bit too dramatic of a change as it applies to a brand new player. Even just sticking to 1.9M XP for lives 1-6 would be a dramatic speed increase for a vet building an alt. The vet probably will probably invest in a tome of learning for an alt they plan to play seriously, has some XP pots in their banks, knows how to farm XP quickly, etc. I could get behind trimming it further still, but 400k for the first life seemed a bit low.

In general, I'm in favor of front-loading the reincarnation system benefits and grinds. It narrows the power gap between the casual (and newer) players and the hard core (and long time) players, which I think promotes higher quality grouping. But it still allows those who want to have the most powerful characters a way to get that edge. It also promotes playing alts.

[slarden]

Absolutely hilarious reading people that keep shouting "No! Reaper was for the challenge!" and then they admit themselves that they don't do higher than R5, but mostly play R1-R3.

I am 2 manning reaper 3-5 skull exclusively for rxp and not really for challenge. In one post a few weeks back there was a discussion with you and another person about a full R3 you both were in. So it doesn't sound like you are running R10 exclusively either.

I didn't ask for the reaper trees but I am going to fill them in the most enjoyable manner possible. I've still run several R10 runs, but it will be a small fraction of the reaper quests I run because most people simply aren't interested in running that very often. I have no interest in pressuring people that want to run lower skull reaper to run higher skull reaper. I have no interest in posting lfms and questioning people to make sure they are properly geared and spec'd for R10. When the opportunities are there I will run R10, but I see that is <10% of my play time as I enjoy extreme challenges in small doses. Once I fill out the trees I might run R10 more.

I don't see any reason to make reaper easier. I think the self-entitled expectation that people should have all their characters maxed out is misguided especially with people still complaining the game is too easy. Whether a person is running R1 or R10 it's still a request for easier rewards so the whole skull level argument is just background noise anyhow. My alts have varying degrees of power from past lifes and my less accomplished alts have fewer build options, less hp, less prr, etc. and this makes it fun and challenging to find a build that works and thrives despite not having max past life benefits.

[Epicstorms]

No to easy buttons

I do want an easy button to play with people though.

That seems to be hard nowadays, play with people (at your level range). Sell me easy button please?

[mr420247]

Your not finding it challenging because you are duoing on your main im guessing

Now if you started running them on your alts i think you would find the runs a lot more challenging

You might even have to group up with new players for some quests it certainly would not be as easy as it is now

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I guess of the ideas I've heard to promote alts and make the game more new player friendly, I'm leaning toward liking this one the most. It seems like it would ease the curve a bit for new players and speed up the process for making a viable alt.

One thing I wanted to point out though:

When I was a brand new player back in 2014, I was not at all concerned about zerging out past lives and acquiring power in that way. I was having a blast running new content and building my character's first life power. I was more worried about running out of content than how I was going to rack up PLs. The game was about discovery and wonderment, and I was only dimly aware of the hamster wheels to come.

The first TR was a bit traumatic (in as much as a video game can be traumatic lol) and anti-climatic for me. Trading in all that effort and hard work for a simple +1 to whatever and having to rebuild my character from scratch.

My point here is that slashing the XP requirement for 1st life that dramatically might actually be doing a brand new player more of a disservice and cheating them out of some the enjoyment that you only experience on your first journey around the wheel. IE it might be introducing the grind too early.

+1

[Thrudh]

Absolutely hilarious reading people that keep shouting "No! Reaper was for the challenge!" and then they admit themselves that they don't do higher than R5, but mostly play R1-R3.

R1-R3 IS challenging. Much easier with a full group, but very easy to die solo (I don't have unlimited cakes), and even a team of 2-3 has "Oh ****!" moments.

I enjoy it very much. It feels a lot like the old days. But it's not easy to solo at all.

[Thrudh]

Rename "the DM is trying to kill you" to "the DM want you to mindless grind on low skull", it will be more accurate.

Not mindless for most of us. Guess you're just too cool for school.

You and Wizza and Rys are the 0.01%. Nothing you say applies to the vast majority of players. Be happy the devs gave you R10 to mess around with.

[Renvar]

I'm still playing 3-4 characters regularly. Reaper and Racial TR hasn't really scared me away from Alts.

[RoberttheBard]

Log on your alt and do the traps. Classes should be distinct enough to entice people to play alts. You're making my argument for me ^^
We've got this lazy tendency by the developers to slap 20 to 40 melee power and ranged power on an enhancement tree and call it a day.
These are not class passes so much as brief re-balances. The cookie cutter loot feels the same way.
Templates and standardized stuff is good, but...

...at some point we need new stuff. Legendary feats were great. More please!
No more playing with crit ranges, melee power, and spell criticals.
No more playing with loot balance.

Give us horizontal progression.

If the devs don't do this with Sentient Weapons then DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM. Or something if you know what I mean....

So, based on the first line here, there's no need to change anything, and, in fact, we're not only encouraged to have alts, but to have them on more than one account.

[Chai]

Any suggestion to change this is met with either "why do you care what other people do" or "you just want to make the game easier for yourself".
A handful of fanatics have basically killed constructive discussion.

Happening since ~2009.

[Chai]

This is pretty much the state of the game in my server too.

Rename "the DM is trying to kill you" to "the DM want you to mindless grind on low skull", it will be more accurate.

More like "people actually playing in their lane" - which is better than everyone crammed into the same elite difficulty setting refusing to play anything else.

If they could find a way to inject that same forced cooperation feel into endgame, Id be happy.

[Wizza]

I do want an easy button to play with people though.

That seems to be hard nowadays, play with people (at your level range). Sell me easy button please?

No!

[slarden]

Any suggestion to change this is met with either "why do you care what other people do" or "you just want to make the game easier for yourself".
A handful of fanatics have basically killed constructive discussion.

Which group of "fanatics" are you referring to. The 59 people that voted AGAINST account-wide xp or the 48 that voted for it:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/poll.php?...do=showresults

You make it sound like there is this vast majority of people that want account wide xp, but there is no indication from forum discussion or the poll this is true. It's a topic with split opinions so there is no point in the devs wasting time on it.