Where have the Alts gone? Also problems for new players.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

My issue isn't with current or future store items. My issue is that they can't find a way to monetize the game except through hamster wheels and hamster wheels are getting old. I have no problem paying money to a company that is producing a quality product and understand SSG needs to make a profit to stay in existence.

I believe the community united in this idea.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Miahoo's thread

[blerkington]

I don't accept the premise that past lives are the main reason for differences in effectiveness between newer people and veterans, nor do I think we should be trying to get new players right into the most difficult content right away by handing them stuff that doesn't make them much more effective or any better at the game.

This problem seems far more about recruitment of new players than anything else. There just isn't that critical mass of new people for them to form groups themselves and have other people like them join, or for them to have a choice of LFMs run by other newer players seeking to learn the game. If there were, I think to a large degree the problem would take care of itself; they would form their own groups and veteran players who like helping would do so too.

In this environment, veteran players who are truly concerned about newer people can take them under their wings and do far more for them than SSG ever could. So if you are genuinely, deeply concerned about that, rather than just lobbying to make it easier for alts to get that last few percent and be at the same standard as your mains, get out there into the community and start doing it.

Thanks.

[Thrudh]

How about dramatically decreasing the amount of XP required on the first three lives only?

That would be both alt and new player friendly. It would be an easy on to the hamster wheel for those so inclined.

The current chart looks like this:

1st Life 1.9M
2nd Life 2.85M
3rd Life+ 3.8M

What if the chart looked like this:

1st Life 400K
2nd Life 650K
3rd Life 850k
4th Life 1.9M
5th Life 2.85M
6th Life+ 3.8M?

From my point of view the answer is that everybody who seriously tries the game will reincarnate at least once and most people will get to 36 point builds. I think retention would go up some for new players and I think existing players would create a ton more alts than they have now and even put many of those on the TR wheel.

I think it would be a win-win for the game system, the players and SSG.

That's an interesting idea.

The way to keep both new players and casuals and powergamers happy is to front-load systems. They did a great job with that in heroic PLs, an okay job with that in epic PLs, and a terrible job with that in racial PLs.

I like your idea above. It does make it easier to roll up a couple of alts, but they need to do it for epic too.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

That's an interesting idea.

The way to keep both new players and casuals and powergamers happy is to front-load systems. They did a great job with that in heroic PLs, an okay job with that in epic PLs, and a terrible job with that in racial PLs.

I like your idea above. It does make it easier to roll up a couple of alts, but they need to do it for epic too.

+1

[Gramh_the_Bard]

For all the time you've spent petitioning for more reason to play alts, you could have been building up your alts >.>

[SerPounce]

How about dramatically decreasing the amount of XP required on the first three lives only?

That would be both alt and new player friendly. It would be an easy on to the hamster wheel for those so inclined.

The current chart looks like this:

1st Life 1.9M
2nd Life 2.85M
3rd Life+ 3.8M

What if the chart looked like this:

1st Life 400K
2nd Life 650K
3rd Life 850k
4th Life 1.9M
5th Life 2.85M
6th Life+ 3.8M?

From my point of view the answer is that everybody who seriously tries the game will reincarnate at least once and most people will get to 36 point builds. I think retention would go up some for new players and I think existing players would create a ton more alts than they have now and even put many of those on the TR wheel.

I think it would be a win-win for the game system, the players and SSG.

This or something like it is a much better idea than directly giving powers from a main to alts.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

This or something like it is a much better idea than directly giving powers from a main to alts.

More would be done than this, but ya I agree.
More front-loading on old systems. Leave the new systems (and grinds for vets) alone.

I need to qualify...

...I have alts and I would not benefit from them sharing past-lives really. 3 with epic competitionist so I would lose probably half my past lives if they made them shared.

I'm arguing for this FOR OTHER PLAYERS since I don't believe in massive power-differential between vets and returning players / new players.

[Gramh_the_Bard]

I'm arguing for this FOR OTHER PLAYERS since I don't believe in massive power-differential between vets and returning players / new players.

Then stop arguing that past lives are what's keeping them from being as good as vets. It's just time spent in game with the system that makes any player more capable.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Then stop arguing that past lives are what's keeping them from being as good as vets. It's just time spent in game with the system that makes any player more capable.

lol, that's the thing
Triple Epic Completionist vs no EPLs is genuinely nothing you think?
roflcopter

[Gramh_the_Bard]

i've seen plenty of triple-triple completionists die in the same content i've seen alts with far less do fine in so your point?

[SirValentine]

You do a good idea of identifying the problem. I'm not sure I agree with most of your solutions, but:

Make Cannith Crafting XP shared on an account.

That's so obvious and non-controversial I have no idea why they didn't just do that. I mean, they completely removed BTC crafting! It's all BTA! Well, except the XP. ***?

[KoobTheProud]

I would honestly hand them $50 if they said they needed it right now in a kind of "yearly drive." I would much prefer that, to what happens with some of the P2PowerUp items they advertisin.

This is what they're asking you to do when they sell the Otto's Boxes. Buy one and you have answered the call. I bought 3 this time around, one for each toon I am playing on a semi-regular basis.

[Jyvva]

How about dramatically decreasing the amount of XP required on the first three lives only?

That would be both alt and new player friendly. It would be an easy on to the hamster wheel for those so inclined.

The current chart looks like this:

1st Life 1.9M
2nd Life 2.85M
3rd Life+ 3.8M

What if the chart looked like this:

1st Life 400K
2nd Life 650K
3rd Life 850k
4th Life 1.9M
5th Life 2.85M
6th Life+ 3.8M?

From my point of view the answer is that everybody who seriously tries the game will reincarnate at least once and most people will get to 36 point builds. I think retention would go up some for new players and I think existing players would create a ton more alts than they have now and even put many of those on the TR wheel.

I think it would be a win-win for the game system, the players and SSG.

400k might be a little too low for a first life, but i agree with the concept.
First life is pretty easy to get through mostly on normal.
I think the curve between lives is too steep, however, and can be a put off.
Especially, the third life (I know it's putting me off )

Right now, the formula is:

n = 1st life xp amount

1st life = n x 1.0
2nd life = n x 1.5
3rd life = n x 2.0

Maybe lower the first life xp a little and use the formula as follows: say 1.5m?
1st life = n x 1.0 = 1.5m
2nd life = n x 1.25 = 1.875m
3rd life = n x 1.5 = 2.25m
4th life = n x 1.75 = 2.625m
5th life = n x 2.0 = 3.0m
6th life = n x 2.25 = 3.375m
7th life and on = n x 2.5 = 3.75m

This would allow players to grow their characters to endgame faster without experiencing the sudden sharp increase from one life to the next.
Something like that, maybe?

I think this might help level off the gap between vets and new players more quickly while not going fullmcintosh on the easy button.

[KoobTheProud]

I think on Epics I'm ok with the existing curve. You don't have to level to 30 to reincarnate and most players who were rolling alts would probably just do 3 fast Heroic TR's and then start on Epic levels anyway. For new players I can see the argument for making Epics cheaper somehow on the 1st life, however I'm not sure how that would work. I'd be very satisfied with just getting characters through 3 cheap Heroic lives, to 36 point builds, and then getting on the full progression wheel from there.

I'm kind of torn overall because I recognize that the current community is largely composed of people willing to put in a heavy grind to build their characters out. I think however that it also needs a lot of casuals to keep the doors wide open and lots of new content rolling in for all of us. It's like the neighborhood gym in a way. If the only people who came in the door were the body builders the doors would close fairly soon. Needs lots of casuals just coming in twice a week and paying a membership fee anyway to keep things going.

That's what 3 cheap lives would be aimed at. Getting those people to feel like they had enough of a foot in the door that it was worth paying the membership even though they weren't likely to do much more than make a string of 3 life characters to try out different builds.

[Jyvva]

I think on Epics I'm ok with the existing curve. You don't have to level to 30 to reincarnate and most players who were rolling alts would probably just do 3 fast Heroic TR's and then start on Epic levels anyway. For new players I can see the argument for making Epics cheaper somehow on the 1st life, however I'm not sure how that would work. I'd be very satisfied with just getting characters through 3 cheap Heroic lives, to 36 point builds, and then getting on the full progression wheel from there.

I'm kind of torn overall because I recognize that the current community is largely composed of people willing to put in a heavy grind to build their characters out. I think however that it also needs a lot of casuals to keep the doors wide open and lots of new content rolling in for all of us. It's like the neighborhood gym in a way. If the only people who came in the door were the body builders the doors would close fairly soon. Needs lots of casuals just coming in twice a week and paying a membership fee anyway to keep things going.

That's what 3 cheap lives would be aimed at. Getting those people to feel like they had enough of a foot in the door that it was worth paying the membership even though they weren't likely to do much more than make a string of 3 life characters to try out different builds.

I haven't done Epic since I've been back, so I can't say anything to that.

Agree on what you said here.
However anyone feels about the powercreep, there's no going back now.
I think what SSG needs to do is make a decision on what endgame is to be for the near to mid future and keep it there.
That seems to be Reaper 10, atm.
The plan now should be to condense the rift that exists and get new players invested enough to stay around.
For them to do that, they will need to see progress toward endgame at a steady pace.
If it's too steep, they might just say "F this. I'm out."

Edit: A new XP structure would also allow alts to become useful at a quicker pace, for those that like to have multiple characters for when they need them.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

[Mr_Helmet]

You can never have too much Hamster wheel.

[Viconiax]

They could make it similar to Kirika system. Your main & alt give each other a small amount of xp whenever a quest is done.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

You can never have too much Hamster wheel.

^

me after racial reincarnation spam