Where have the Alts gone? Also problems for new players.

[nokowi]

People care about character progression and min maxing in a game about character progression and min maxing. Who would have thought!

Well more things to do gives them more progression.

What is the problem with more things to do unless "obtaining everything = winning DDO" is the goal?

[Astoroth]

The best DDO can do is try to provide a good experience for new/casual players without doing so at the expense of the vets.

No new/casual players needs every reaper reward or every past life. That is pure lunacy.

If they enjoy the game, they can hang around for 5-10 years and decide if they want to remain casual or become a vet.

Giving them everything ensures they won't be here in 5-10 years, while also driving many others away.

LOL

People who play alts are vets usually. But you don't mean vets in general, but just people who only play the way you like to. Furthermore giving other account wide benefits doesn't hurt people who only play 1 character in any way. Unless of course those people are very immature and only get enjoyment from thinking they are better than everyone else. It's stupidity on the part of a company to cater to said people.

[nokowi]

LOL

People who play alts are vets usually. But you don't mean vets in general, but just people who only play the way you like to. Furthermore giving other account wide benefits doesn't hurt people who only play 1 character in any way. Unless of course those people are very immature and only get enjoyment from thinking they are better than everyone else. It's stupidity on the part of a company to cater to said people.

People at all levels of the game play alts. With more than 50% of players in normal/hard, I wouldn't be so sure of your own statements.

It hurts people that would otherwise play more than one character, but reduce to their main when they can get rewards on their best toon.

Immaturity and people thinking they are better than anyone else is probably unrelated to whether people play one or multiple toons.

It's an interesting theory that those that disagree with you must have negative characteristics, or that they must think they are better than anyone else.

If someone also thought this about you and your position, would you assign positive or negative attributes to them?

[Astoroth]

People at all levels of the game play alts. With more than 50% of players in normal/hard, I wouldn't be so sure of your own statements.

It hurts people that would otherwise play more than one character, but reduce to their main when they can get rewards on their best toon.

The first is basically your own opinion, The second is just gibberish. You can't produce one example of how shared past life benefits would hurt the vet or single toon player, you can't because there aren't any. Aside from boo hoo I'm not quite as good as I thought I was just because I played the game differently. Sad just sad.

All you are left with is the standard troll move of obfuscation.

So let me get this right, you stopped playing, uninstalled the game, reinstalled just to test how bad assassination and aggro changes were. And yet you've somehow managed to post like what another thousand messages in the last couple of months. That doesn't portray someone with the games best interests in heart to me. So are you just trying to destroy the game by giving bad feedback or what?

[nokowi]

The first is basically your own opinion, The second is just gibberish. You can't produce one example of how shared past life benefits would hurt the vet or single toon player, you can't because there aren't any. Aside from boo hoo I'm not quite as good as I thought I was just because I played the game differently. Sad just sad.

So was the statement that primarily vets play alts. Come up with some consistent logic rather than invalidating all your own comments.

I gave you an exact statement that it would hurt my play style by allowing me to never play an alt. Others in these RXP threads have said the same thing if you care to read.

You can stick your head in the sand, or you can actually read what others are saying.

If you can get past the idea that you need to have everything maxed on every toon then running alts can be plenty fun. In fact I think if some of the triple/triple types out there rolled up an alt from time to time they'd realize it can be a lot of fun to play an alt BECAUSE they don't have everything max out.

I have 22 character slots. Before reincarnating they each were a character. Most were at level cap, but I would switch around depending on what the guild/party needed. I had my favorites they were usually better.

I played this game for so long at max xp, it was about getting gear, helping guildies.

All the raid loot I passed on because why would my cleric Laggin need SOS? Who knew.

If you want to play alts, then play alts. I don't understand you asking the game to give you incentive to play alts.

I play different characters (I have 6) because I want to. Sure I could get more power if I played only one. But for me it is not fun. Fun for me is being able to decide a type and even a level range to play in for that session. Or being able to switch to group with friends/guildmates.

But why I don't see the need to consolidate all this to make Alt characters "worth it" is because I see all of these characters as different entities each deserving of their own journey through DDO.

people may not have many alts because they want to partake in the many grind systems the game offers and focus on 1 character. how I read these complaints is that there are too many options for players and they don't have the time to play more than 1 character to finish getting through all those hoops. this is what they choose to do and choose not to play alts. this goes hand in hand with what I have been warning about for a long time. deviate from the game aspect of DDO and encourage a fast paced game and the players will respond in kind. players complained there wasn't a lot to do in the game, but now complain there is. its hypocritical. sharing experience with alts does not encourage playing alts. solution would be to do what some players have done in the past if you don't want to play alts is to make box alts and pike quests while focusing on 1 character.

Those are from page 1. Apparently you don't understand what a troll is. Try using a word that reflects what I have posted.

All you are left with is the standard troll move of obfuscation.


So let me get this right, you stopped playing, uninstalled the game, reinstalled just to test how bad assassination and aggro changes were. And yet you've somehow managed to post like what another thousand messages in the last couple of months. That doesn't portray someone with the games best interests in heart to me. So are you just trying to destroy the game by giving bad feedback or what?

When you argument is weak, you switch to attacking the other poster.

I would love to return to DDO if they decide to fix assassin. I spent a lot of time posting about what I would like to see in reaper, and what will work well. The reason I left was because of lack of challenge and lack of coordinated grouping. The reason I haven't returned is I came back to check out reaper and found my character broken.

Of course you believe those that contributed to what we would like to see in reaper, or who took the time to post what specifically was not working for assassin players must not have the best interests of DDO in heart. That says a lot about you, and your requirement that I must be bad because I disagree with you. You have 1000 posts to pick from, surely you can find one that you can make a good argument against.

I know nothing about you, and won't pretend you are a bad person for disagreeing with me about a video game. If you have any points to make related to the thread, please do so. Resorting to name calling "troll" and personal attacks is one weak argument. This is not the third grade.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Meanwhile, back in DDO, people are playing and enjoying themselves.

You don't have an alt you would enjoy playing?
It seems like they broke your main and now you quit because you put a lot of eggs in that basket.

[changelingamuck]

Most people have alts, so much so that many people have multiple accounts, and even play on multiple servers (impossible with one toon), invalidating everything after this.

Whether or not people *have* alts is beside the point. What matters is if and how much people actually *play* the alts. I *have* a lot of alts. Unfortunately, most of them have effectively become mules (aka bank space in character form) because of the cumulative effect of many of the changes to the game that have been discussed in this thread. I mean, feel free to dismiss the OP's suggestions based on one incorrect statement that barely matters when it comes to the points made; but that really seems to be like trying to chew at an argument around the edges because the center's too tough to take a bite out of...

Also, "many people" have multiple accounts so that they can multi-box in order to cheese the loot system and effectively loot chests in a pay-to-win manner. They're not actually *playing* those alts--unless you consider the mere act of opening chests to be *playing*. To consider the existence of those accounts to be evidence of thriving alt-play in this game seems disingenuous to me. And I highly, highly doubt that "many people" play on multiple servers--whatever "many" means here...

[nokowi]

Meanwhile, back in DDO, people are playing and enjoying themselves.

You don't have an alt you would enjoy playing?
It seems like they broke your main and now you quit because you put a lot of eggs in that basket.

Having played every class 3 times, I really only enjoy melee rogue.

I left about a year ago when rogue was not broken because of lack of challenge and grouping.

I had a great guild with great people, but the game itself was just not entertaining when it became just a run to the end.

I didn't put all my eggs in one basket, I played what I enjoyed, and left when this was no longer true.

A character can reincarnate and it would be impossible to spend too much on a single toon. That toon can always reincarnate into something else.

Your too many eggs in one basket thought makes no sense to me.

[nokowi]

Whether or not people *have* alts is beside the point. What matters is if and how much people actually *play* the alts. I *have* a lot of alts. Unfortunately, most of them have effectively become mules (aka bank space in character form) because of the cumulative effect of many of the changes to the game that have been discussed in this thread. I mean, feel free to dismiss the OP's suggestions based on one incorrect statement that barely matters when it comes to the points made; but that really seems to be like trying to chew at an argument around the edges because the center's too tough to take a bite out of...

Also, "many people" have multiple accounts so that they can multi-box in order to cheese the loot system and effectively loot chests in a pay-to-win manner. They're not actually *playing* those alts--unless you consider the mere act of opening chests to be *playing*. To consider the existence of those accounts to be evidence of thriving alt-play in this game seems disingenuous to me.

People I know played several different toons before reaper. Everyone one of them but one.

Reaper has barely been out, and of course people work on their mains first.

On the forums I'm sure threatening to quit your alts is as effective as threatening to leave.

By the end of the year, most people will be playing multiple toons in much the same way they did before reaper.

Devs can look at their data in December (or whenever a bunch of new content comes out), and I am sure they will see players returning to alts when it benefits their rate of defeating new content. Reaper just happens to not provide any new content, and doesn't provide an extra incentive for multiple toons like new content.

And I highly, highly doubt that "many people" play on multiple servers--whatever "many" means here...

Players comments about running on multiple servers are direct but very limited proof that players still play multiple toons, regardless of how many it actually is. It's pretty pointless to argue about. Devs have the real data and can make decisions without needing the forum drama.

[changelingamuck]

Immaturity and people thinking they are better than anyone else is probably unrelated to whether people play one or multiple toons.

You're misrepresenting what they said.
That poster didn't say that immaturity and people thinking they are better than anyone else was related to whether or not people play one or multiple toons.

That poster said that immaturity and getting enjoyment from thinking of oneself as better than others was related to people feeling hurt by "account wide benefits". That is not at all the same thing as "whether people play one or multiple toons".

Furthermore giving other account wide benefits doesn't hurt people who only play 1 character in any way. Unless of course those people are very immature and only get enjoyment from thinking they are better than everyone else. It's stupidity on the part of a company to cater to said people.

It's an interesting theory that those that disagree with you must have negative characteristics, or that they must think they are better than anyone else.

That's actually not necessarily theoretical...

For instance, if I told someone that they aren't the center of the universe and they disagreed with me, that person would most definitely have the negative characteristics of being a self-centered narcissist. If someone disagreed with the argument that women should have the right to vote in elections, I think it's safe to say that they have the negative characteristic of being a misogynist.

Often, when people disagree with something, it is because they have negative characteristics...

[nokowi]

You're misrepresenting what they said.
That poster didn't say that immaturity and people thinking they are better than anyone else was related to whether or not people play one or multiple toons.

That poster said that immaturity and getting enjoyment from thinking of oneself as better than others was related to people feeling hurt by "account wide benefits". That is not at all the same thing as "whether people play one or multiple toons".





That's actually not necessarily theoretical...

For instance, if I told someone that they aren't the center of the universe and they disagreed with me, that person would most definitely have the negative characteristics of being a self-centered narcissist. If someone disagreed with the argument that women should have the right to vote in elections, I think it's safe to say that they have the negative characteristic of being a misogynist.

Often, when people disagree with something, it is because they have negative characteristics...

If you have anything related to the discussion, feel free to post it.

[changelingamuck]

If you have anything related to the discussion, feel free to post it.

[kanordog]

The only thing I see are two options: the game stays like this OR
get a new system introduced that will lead to bugs to break the game.
I can imagine things like Your mains XP/PL/crafting levels etc. will disappear instead of being shared or suddenly all of Your characters will be unplayable in some way (like after downgrading to premium) or will be exploited etc.
Until basic things are bugged I'd prefer not to have a new system that affects ALL of my characters at once.

[Vint]

Often, when people disagree with something, it is because they have negative characteristics...

A lot depends on what options we would have if it came to "sharing xp" (or whatever the devil people want to share). It is too early to be overly critical of the ideas, but I do take issue with the sentence I quoted.

In the real world, you are right. In DDO, ideas turn into FUBARS. It is not negative of me to say that, it is a reality no matter what we think of our "sharing" ideas.

[changelingamuck]

In the real world, you are right. In DDO, ideas turn into FUBARS. It is not negative of me to say that, it is a reality no matter what we think of our "sharing" ideas.

I would never suggest that people shouldn't feel free to disagree with ideas regardless of their reasons. But, people disagree with a lot of ideas about MMORPGs due to their own negative personality characteristics. The entire concept of an e-[slang term for a male body part that rhymes with 'scene'] captures the essence of one type of self-promoting, elitist vanity that motivates a lot of people's disagreements with any idea that makes their characters 'stand out from the crowd' less, for example.

[Thrudh]

That doesn't preclude them from making an effective character in a reasonable amount of time, because few past lives are needed.

Tell me how long it takes you, how much you play, and how many past lives you need to make an effective character.

The math will show there is not a problem, even if you want more than one toon.

Oh, I agree with you there... But your calculations of how easy it is to get 3x completionist are WAY OFF. Because grinding like that would drive most normal people away from the game.

But luckily, no one needs more than handful of past-lives to be fairly effective. I'd say 3-6 heroic past-lives, and 3-12 epic past-lives. Racial PLs are not needed at all. But that's a pretty good amount of work for each alt.

Making rewards easier does not help players that are less effective. Devs must add new stuff to keep the more effective players engaged in the game, and they just get further behind.

You should argue for tougher rewards, not easier, if you want more balance.

I'm not sure I understand your point... I think the idea of making it easier to get the first 6 past lives is a very good one. It doesn't help the powergamers main characters at all, but it might get them to roll up some new alts, and it certainly helps casual and new players get their main and some alts up to an "effective" level much easier.

[slarden]

LOL


People who play alts are vets usually. But you don't mean vets in general, but just people who only play the way you like to. Furthermore giving other account wide benefits doesn't hurt people who only play 1 character in any way. Unless of course those people are very immature and only get enjoyment from thinking they are better than everyone else. It's stupidity on the part of a company to cater to said people.

False again. The entire system is character-based and I would guess it's a fairly major change to support xp sharing account-wide. From my perspective as someone playing multiple alts is that you and other folks are coming here asking to make xp easier to acquire for YOU. How you twist that and claim other people are being immature and selfish is laughable. A tiny fraction of the population is asking for the game to be easier and doing so would divert development resources from other activities benefiting the entire community. As the person asking for the game to be easier, the burden is on your to prove it's worth the development effort.

The first is basically your own opinion, The second is just gibberish. You can't produce one example of how shared past life benefits would hurt the vet or single toon player, you can't because there aren't any. Aside from boo hoo I'm not quite as good as I thought I was just because I played the game differently. Sad just sad.


All you are left with is the standard troll move of obfuscation.


So let me get this right, you stopped playing, uninstalled the game, reinstalled just to test how bad assassination and aggro changes were. And yet you've somehow managed to post like what another thousand messages in the last couple of months. That doesn't portray someone with the games best interests in heart to me. So are you just trying to destroy the game by giving bad feedback or what?

You are asking for a change to make the game easier for YOU and many people are opposed because they are sick of tired of the game getting watered down by constant demands to make the game easier. You make it sound as though he is asking for something but it is you that is asking for a change that makes things easier for you.

You're misrepresenting what they said.
That poster didn't say that immaturity and people thinking they are better than anyone else was related to whether or not people play one or multiple toons.


That poster said that immaturity and getting enjoyment from thinking of oneself as better than others was related to people feeling hurt by "account wide benefits". That is not at all the same thing as "whether people play one or multiple toons".


That's actually not necessarily theoretical...


For instance, if I told someone that they aren't the center of the universe and they disagreed with me, that person would most definitely have the negative characteristics of being a self-centered narcissist. If someone disagreed with the argument that women should have the right to vote in elections, I think it's safe to say that they have the negative characteristic of being a misogynist.


Often, when people disagree with something, it is because they have negative characteristics...

This was good comedy right here. We have a small percentage of the population coming on here and asking for the game to be easier for them.

As people come here calling others immature, talking about narcissism and "negative characteristics" let's not forget that people are asking the devs to devote resources to make the game easier for them with account-wide xp sharing. The resources devoted to this activity would take away from other work that can be done to benefit the entire community. As someone that would benefit greatly from account-wide xp I think it's a bad decision to devote resources to making the game easier. Call people whatever names you wish, it doesn't change a thing.

[KoobTheProud]

I think the idea of making it easier to get the first 6 past lives is a very good one. It doesn't help the powergamers main characters at all, but it might get them to roll up some new alts, and it certainly helps casual and new players get their main and some alts up to an "effective" level much easier.

It really would be a win-win-win for vets-newbies-SSG.

3 past lives for the cost of 1 at the start and all the incentives for Otto's remain because for most toons 3 past lives is not enough but now you're close enough to taste the end build. All the incentives for Epic Otto's remain because the system doesn't include Epic speed up. All the incentives for Supreme Tomes go up because there are more characters that might be verging on end game. All the incentives for Skill Tomes go up.

It would be the jump start that DDO needs to begin the process of really rebuilding the community.

[Avantasian]

Well more things to do gives them more progression.

What is the problem with more things to do unless "obtaining everything = winning DDO" is the goal?

obtaining everything is a goal.

It seems more and more that all you are trying to do here is preserve your feeling of specialness.

[Wizza]

People seem to misunderstand what easier means.

Making XP shared does not make the game easier. You get XP zerging mindless R1-R3 quests in Heroic whether the XP is shared or not, so it's will be easy regardless. Let's not pretend that this is how the game is being played. I log in and every single time the LFM looks like this:



Notice how the bar was scrolled to the bottom, 0 epic LFMs.

Absolutely hilarious reading people that keep shouting "No! Reaper was for the challenge!" and then they admit themselves that they don't do higher than R5, but mostly play R1-R3.