Where have the Alts gone? Also problems for new players.

[mr420247]

What ever you say man we didn't have reaper back then

newbs weren't getting completely destroyed in reaper and giving up and quitting either

Im still waiting to see that vid of your uber hybrid divine melee caster with no fail implosions too

cant wait to run 1 of those

[Enoach]

What ever you say man we didn't have reaper back then

newbs weren't getting completely destroyed in reaper and giving up and quitting either

Im still waiting to see that vid of your uber hybrid divine melee caster with no fail implosions too

cant wait to run 1 of those

Actually from the point VIP was able to open Elite first time and then TRing allowed opening Hard 2nd and Elite 3rd life the conversation about how to help new players survive/catch-up has existed.

One thing to note is that with each new system being better then the last starts all players on equal footing for that system.

When mysterious remnants for example first came out it was actually much easier to get a lot of them faster running from 1 to 20 then it was from 20+. Developers once they realized this made adjustments to improve this for Epic. I believe it is only a matter of time for the Reaper XP on epics getting adjusted.

As for the rest of your comment I can only say, wow did that escalate fast

[RoberttheBard]

What ever you say man we didn't have reaper back then

newbs weren't getting completely destroyed in reaper and giving up and quitting either

Im still waiting to see that vid of your uber hybrid divine melee caster with no fail implosions too

cant wait to run 1 of those

You know, it would be easier to have a dialog if you actually comment on things I say, rather than what you need for me to have said in order for you to have any kind of validity. You can't, obviously, and so we get this, all in reaction to "Uh oh, he caught me trying to scam SSG into giving me freebies". The fact that you can't support your argument at all, let alone w/out having to resort to distorting comments made both here, and in other threads tells me all I need to know about you as a player: It's all good, so long as someone's carrying you. It's obvious because, with no one carrying you in this thread, you're floundering, hard. Do continue, however. It's amusing to watch the "middle of the aisle at Wal-Mart" style temper tantrums.

[mr420247]

Whatever you say man

Your right total power creep i just don't see it but your right

[Wonedream]

Moving Towards a Solution, TL;DR to Here
SSG makes money on experience. If experience were shared, then they would be losing out on potential profits. If people feel that there’s a $300 pay wall combined with a broken who panel in Korthos then WHY WOULD THEY STAY? As a community, we benefit from making experience less important for new players and characters. Do we want to be another failed Daybreak Games endeavor, or do we want to be the second most steady horse behind Everquest?

The more open the game is to its real content, i.e., character creation, the less money the devs make on it. The price of boxes has to stay high. The price of tomes and other QOL things so that your friends aren’t constantly out leveling you should probably drop. The length of the grind for a Solar Whale should be infinite, but the New Guy (or toon) should feel competitive.

Making some forms of experience transferable, or shared, between toons would be helpful to the community as a whole. Make it a premium service, but reduce the height of that pay-wall a bit. I don’t want to spend $300 just to make a decently competitive toon without any gear. It’s too high. You just gave yourselves a new past-life system. It’s time to ease up the old one since most of us have already done it, and new players would benefit. XP needs to be more like loot. Some of it needs to be BTA to encourage the use of multiple characters.

Spaghetti on the Wall
1. Make Cannith Crafting XP shared on an account. Create a new starter area for the expansion and streamline the new player experience. Fix the WHO panel or demolish it into something else. Reduce the cost of ability Tomes, but not learning Tomes. Generally reduce monetization of events that have not received developer influence in over 3 years.
2. Next year allow “some” heroic past-life sharing or trading on an account. It speeds up the grind for a new player and does not affect the new grind for an old player. Watering down old things is good.
3. The year after allow some epic past-life sharing.
4. Some indefinite time later allow some other form of XP sharing as you introduce more forms of XP.

I 100% fully support your brilliant idea! Bravo and +++ to you! Count me among the supporters!

[Sam-u-r-eye]

If you want to play alts, play them. If you don't, then don't. It's really that simple. There doesn't need to be yet another carrot, yet more power creep. This "Look ma', I can rollz a brand new toon with all the bells and whistles" stuff needs to go away. If you want them, go get them. If you don't want them bad enough to go get them, then you don't really want them at all, do you?

Hi welcome. I have the alts already as I pointed out elsewhere. So its obviously not about that, for me at least. I agree that some people might have that motivation but from your conversations here do you really think that's true?

When did this game become "competitive"?

The game is whatever you want it to be. I know people who still hang out in the PvP area, even though it hasn't been supported for 5(?) years. If you want to compete that's fine! Reaper was all about that.

Is there some top secret leaderboard somewhere that only the "best of the best" know about?

No we generally use the achievement board. ^^

Just sayin'. There's nothing in the game that having top kills gets you that having bottom kills won't if RNG decides to bless you on a chest roll. Is that what people are claiming is "competitive", the "I got lucky on RNG and it must be because I led the kill counter"? The only place this game is competitive is in people's minds, and frankly, SSG doesn't need to change the game to accommodate that.

No of course not. Since you don't understand the achievement boards, maybe you should frequent it, and make friends with the people there so you can be better able to judge them. You think another poster here is creating StrawMans but you are being very silly yourself.

Every time one of these threads comes up, it's the same stuff: "I want to keep up with the Jones's, but I don't want to actually have to put in the time required, so SSG should just give it to me".

That was not my point; however, you seem to be ignoring that "keeping up with the Jones'" is a basic psychological phenomena and motivator across all industries. Complaining about it is genuinely silly.

They absolutely shouldn't, it should be earned the same way other people have earned it. If that's too hard, grindy, tedious, insert other catch phrase here, then it sort of calls back to the first couple of sentences in this post, doesn't it?

You mean by buying boxes?
That's my point. It's too grindy for most people, and results in a poorer game for everyone.
The system doesn't encourage Alts. Instead of blaming people who play the game for different reasons than you, maybe you should look at the bigger picture.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I 100% fully support your brilliant idea! Bravo and +++ to you! Count me among the supporters!

Wow that's very nice! Thanks!!

(p.s. read Wonedream's bio for an interesting idea.......)

[goldgolem]

Years ago I had 12 toons. With completionist came about I went down to 2. Now with reaper and racial, I am only playing 1


I learned my lesson when I stated playing eso, just 1 toon and no alts, DDO has taught me

Although I dont think its too bad a thing, given that you can reincarnate to change into whatever you want

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Years ago I had 12 toons. With completionist came about I went down to 2. Now with reaper and racial, I am only playing 1


I learned my lesson when I stated playing eso, just 1 toon and no alts, DDO has taught me

Although I dont think its too bad a thing, given that you can reincarnate to change into whatever you want

+1

[Wonedream]

If you can get past the idea that you need to have everything maxed on every toon then running alts can be plenty fun. In fact I think if some of the triple/triple types out there rolled up an alt from time to time they'd realize it can be a lot of fun to play an alt BECAUSE they don't have everything max out.

Yes, I have found a way to justify keeping my alts and having fun with them. But to invest money in them... no fricking way because what is the point when without all those PLs they still come far behind? Forget it, never gonna happen in a trillion zillion years. Ill run them one time up to level 30 on casual... poser style. That is what they deserve, and that is how I will enjoy abusing their existence, playing with the gear I never used, and then parking em as mules.

If... they didn't have to overcome all this time grind PLs and could close enough to what a TRd PLd toon is, then I WOULD invest MONEY into tombs and other things, and run em more then once. But, as it is now, no, I got enough to do with 100+ freaking TRs totaled, something that can take a womping chunk of life away itself to get, and what do I get for it... an awesome toon that makes the alts seem boring to use in comparison. But because I dont want to spend forever, I have worked out accelerated paths so I dont even have to think about what I am doing next ever, just follow the path and note when I can run past trash and when not.

The path overall is so freaking long that yes, I will race to catch up, and prefer to have one toon with it all over a collection of posers that never live up to the greatest challenges. In order to facilitate getting to the point where I can take on the challenges and kick butt as best as possible, I am avoiding challenge as much as possible since the heavy long grindy path would take two or three times longer... which adds up to many years... if I get sucked into reaper stuff I cant handle yet.

I got 7 TRs on my main... a few on my alts, and have made about 100 alts reach level 20. Now I feel that was a huge waste of time seeing how this game has changed, and wont waste any time on alts ever again as long as my main has something to do, and TRing to get. They are a collection of experiences, and I have gained a lot of knowledge, but Id have both that knowledge and an awesome toon if I instead TRd my main the entire time. What a waste of time.

I WARN ALL NEW PLAYERS ABOUT THIS NOW!

It is only fair and decent they get warned. I wish I had listened to the warnings some gave me a while ago, but it was soft pressed and I was stubborn. Live and learn.

I think ill go check on my Main now :P

[KoobTheProud]

I looked at this and said " hah those numbers are silly first life in two hours." Then I thought it might not be bad if a person could get through a first life one and done (or n/h and done) on ftp content only, add one free heroic heart for new characters too. Then you add xp requirements and need packs to avoid grinding. Lets someone sample the game, not just the first 8 levels.

Basically the numbers are 1st, 2nd and 3rd life for what it costs to get the 1st life now.

For most players that's about a month with normal play. For new players maybe 6 to 8 weeks since they have no meta knowledge. Talking solo players here, since that's who you really want too attract and retain since they have the lowest requirements of other players to keep playing.

[KoobTheProud]

^

me after racial reincarnation spam

I'd only get that look if they'd given us Kobolds.

Then I'd have done a Heroic Completionist cycle all Kobold and there you have the look.

[Vint]

That's my point. It's too grindy for most people, and results in a poorer game for everyone.

You have some decent arguments, but what's next?

What if I were to make the argument that my gameplay was "poorer" because my pure fighter is unable to disable traps? I know the answer seems obvious, splash or your SOL. Even if it makes my game time "poorer", there are reasons why my fighter cant disable traps.

I wont argue as this is not an issue I care about, but I do wonder what's next.

[Qhualor]

Basically the numbers are 1st, 2nd and 3rd life for what it costs to get the 1st life now.

For most players that's about a month with normal play. For new players maybe 6 to 8 weeks since they have no meta knowledge. Talking solo players here, since that's who you really want too attract and retain since they have the lowest requirements of other players to keep playing.

For me right now it can take me typically 18 days to level from 1-20. I could shave off a few days if I wanted to, but I just focus on reaching a level per day. There are a lot of players that do it faster than me and they consider that normal to them, but your suggestion would allow me to shave off a good half of that. Not to mention that's a huge chunk of the game to skip past. Personally I probably wouldn't even bother spending money on xp boosts because I already find it really easy to level in the game, heroics even easier, with such a drastic cut back in xp. Most likely would focus on needed favor rewards like House K, Coin Lord and for specific cases SF for the pots to store in the cache. I could get 6 past lives probably in 2 months or less if I stuck to my typical routine.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

What if I were to make the argument that my gameplay was "poorer" because my pure fighter is unable to disable traps? I know the answer seems obvious, splash or your SOL.

Log on your alt and do the traps. Classes should be distinct enough to entice people to play alts. You're making my argument for me ^^
We've got this lazy tendency by the developers to slap 20 to 40 melee power and ranged power on an enhancement tree and call it a day.
These are not class passes so much as brief re-balances. The cookie cutter loot feels the same way.
Templates and standardized stuff is good, but...

...at some point we need new stuff. Legendary feats were great. More please!
No more playing with crit ranges, melee power, and spell criticals.
No more playing with loot balance.

Give us horizontal progression.

If the devs don't do this with Sentient Weapons then DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM. Or something if you know what I mean....

[Vint]

Log on your alt and do the traps. Classes should be distinct enough to entice people to play alts. You're making my argument for me ^^
We've got this lazy tendency by the developers to slap 20 to 40 melee power and ranged power on an enhancement tree and call it a day.
These are not class passes so much as brief re-balances. The cookie cutter loot feels the same way.
Templates and standardized stuff is good, but...

...at some point we need new stuff. Legendary feats were great. More please!
No more playing with crit ranges, melee power, and spell criticals.
No more playing with loot balance.

Give us horizontal progression.

If the devs don't do this with Sentient Weapons then DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM. Or something if you know what I mean....

As I said, I agree with many of your points. My point is that if SSG were to implement any form of what you are asking, fine. But you will have people saying

"You are letting us share xp, let us share raid loot".

"My FS has wings and since I am the one behind the keyboard and I prefer to play melee, give my melee toons wings".

"I have to work a ton of overtime, so can the xp my wife earns on her account be gifted to me?"

The forums will be bogged down with these kinds of threads.

[Avantasian]

As I said, I agree with many of your points. My point is that if SSG were to implement any form of what you are asking, fine. But you will have people saying

"You are letting us share xp, let us share raid loot".

"My FS has wings and since I am the one behind the keyboard and I prefer to play melee, give my melee toons wings".

"I have to work a ton of overtime, so can the xp my wife earns on her account be gifted to me?"

The forums will be bogged down with these kinds of threads.

They are implementing suggestions all the time. If you don't consider the forums "bogged down" with those kinds of things already, why would it happen now?

[Sam-u-r-eye]

As I said, I agree with many of your points. My point is that if SSG were to implement any form of what you are asking, fine. But you will have people saying

"You are letting us share xp, let us share raid loot".

"My FS has wings and since I am the one behind the keyboard and I prefer to play melee, give my melee toons wings".

"I have to work a ton of overtime, so can the xp my wife earns on her account be gifted to me?"

The forums will be bogged down with these kinds of threads.

...as a point of reference:

Raid loot is shared in the form of runes.

They already gave us wings on melee. -> Vanguard, Dragonborn, Shadar-kai, Warlock

...and I'm not sure that the forums AREN'T already bogged down with these sorts of things. =p

[Vint]

Raid loot is shared in the form of runes.

They already gave us wings on melee. -> Vanguard, Dragonborn, Shadar-kai, Warlock

tongue and cheek

.and I'm not sure that the forums AREN'T already bogged down with these sorts of things. =p

I guess you are right here. Point withdrawn.

[nokowi]

Why don’t many people have alts?

Most people have alts, so much so that many people have multiple accounts, and even play on multiple servers (impossible with one toon), invalidating everything after this.