Where have the Alts gone? Also problems for new players.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Also: If we are so against power creep, then then lobbying for account wide is a direct contradiction. If we dont like power creep we should be happy with the hilarious time barrier in place to get it all, rather than asking for it all much sooner on every character.

Life is built on contradictions. There is only one thing that balances all of those contradictions...


The Rule of Cool (or the Rule of Fun/Money)

If people are having fun, then its good.
If SSG makes money, then its good.

This is the basic transaction, the holy grail of trade, consumption, and creation.

People are opposed to power creep because its not fun. It ruins challenge.
People are in favor of alts because experiencing the diversity the game has to offer in terms of builds... ...is fun.

Do you REALLY THINK THAT ALTS MAKE THE GAME THAT LESS CHALLENGING?
And then you can balance Character diversity (and enjoyment of that) with an increasing level of "player power."

You should also keep in mind...
...power creep and mob power is arbitrary. Those thing can ALWAYS BE CHANGED.

Goldilocks is looking for porridge that is just right.
No one cares about power creep IN A VACUUM, but instead IN THE CONTEXT OF COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

[FranOhmsford]

But according to many, that power creep will take a lifetime to farm on all their alts.

Lol, Try many lifetimes!

30 trs is not a lifetime sum math person said 5 years total for a hardcore farmer for the reaper trees

Yes there will be a few people who go from nothing to all Reaper Trees maxed in 5 years but they'll be a TINY MINORITY!

Or they'll be the only players left because everyone else will have given up!

[Avantasian]

Life is built on contradictions. There is only one thing that balances all of those contradictions...


The Rule of Cool (or the Rule of Fun/Money)

If people are having fun, then its good.
If SSG makes money, then its good.

This is the basic transaction, the holy grail of trade, consumption, and creation.

People are opposed to power creep because its not fun. It ruins challenge.
People are in favor of alts because experiencing the diversity the game has to offer in terms of builds... ...is fun.

Do you REALLY THINK THAT ALTS MAKE THE GAME THAT LESS CHALLENGING?
And then you can balance Character diversity (and enjoyment of that) with an increasing level of "player power."

You should also keep in mind...
...power creep and mob power is arbitrary. Those thing can ALWAYS BE CHANGED.

Goldilocks is looking for porridge that is just right.
No one cares about power creep IN A VACUUM, but instead IN THE CONTEXT OF COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

/Endthread

[KoobTheProud]

The real new player problem at this point is that if you don't love the game at the start you likely won't put the time in to discover it and learn to love it. That's because the learning curve is steep and early progress is painfully slow and it's easy to get roadblocked.

Some of those things can't be fixed without hurting the game. Slow progress however is a self-inflicted wound. Seriously.

[RoberttheBard]

Life is built on contradictions. There is only one thing that balances all of those contradictions...


The Rule of Cool (or the Rule of Fun/Money)

If people are having fun, then its good.
If SSG makes money, then its good.

This is the basic transaction, the holy grail of trade, consumption, and creation.

People are opposed to power creep because its not fun. It ruins challenge.
People are in favor of alts because experiencing the diversity the game has to offer in terms of builds... ...is fun.

Do you REALLY THINK THAT ALTS MAKE THE GAME THAT LESS CHALLENGING?
And then you can balance Character diversity (and enjoyment of that) with an increasing level of "player power."

You should also keep in mind...
...power creep and mob power is arbitrary. Those thing can ALWAYS BE CHANGED.

Goldilocks is looking for porridge that is just right.
No one cares about power creep IN A VACUUM, but instead IN THE CONTEXT OF COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

Actually, the way that works around here is: If they're getting it, and I'm not, it's power creep, and needs to be fixed. For a prime example, the poster quoted below this used to believe that RXP should only be handed out at cap, now, however, check it out:

/Endthread

Now, all of a sudden, giving it to all toons on the account is suddenly the best thing since sliced bread? What's changed? I'd be willing to bet that this poster isn't all for this because all his toons are at cap.

[Avantasian]

Actually, the way that works around here is: If they're getting it, and I'm not, it's power creep, and needs to be fixed. For a prime example, the poster quoted below this used to believe that RXP should only be handed out at cap, now, however, check it out:



Now, all of a sudden, giving it to all toons on the account is suddenly the best thing since sliced bread? What's changed? I'd be willing to bet that this poster isn't all for this because all his toons are at cap.

Used to believe? No, I still believe that limiting RXP to cap-only would make the game far better than it currently is.
All of a sudden? No, if you dig through my posts you can see how my mind changed from "No way" to "No" to "Maybe" to "Yes, but only if" to "Yes".

My only played toon since way before MOTU is mid level gaining that sweet easybutton RXP.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Used to believe? No, I still believe that limiting RXP to cap-only would make the game far better than it currently is.
All of a sudden? No, if you dig through my posts you can see how my mind changed from "No way" to "No" to "Maybe" to "Yes, but only if" to "Yes".

My only played toon since way before MOTU is mid level gaining that sweet easybutton RXP.

+1

[Wonedream]

Life is built on contradictions. There is only one thing that balances all of those contradictions...


The Rule of Cool (or the Rule of Fun/Money)

If people are having fun, then its good.
If SSG makes money, then its good.

This is the basic transaction, the holy grail of trade, consumption, and creation.

People are opposed to power creep because its not fun. It ruins challenge.
People are in favor of alts because experiencing the diversity the game has to offer in terms of builds... ...is fun.

Do you REALLY THINK THAT ALTS MAKE THE GAME THAT LESS CHALLENGING?
And then you can balance Character diversity (and enjoyment of that) with an increasing level of "player power."

You should also keep in mind...
...power creep and mob power is arbitrary. Those thing can ALWAYS BE CHANGED.

Goldilocks is looking for porridge that is just right.
No one cares about power creep IN A VACUUM, but instead IN THE CONTEXT OF COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

+++ with a standing ovation!

[nokowi]

You should also keep in mind...
...power creep and mob power is arbitrary. Those thing can ALWAYS BE CHANGED.

We just had a 2-3 year period (post class passes) where there was little/no challenge for the top 50% of those playing 3+ years.

Players did nothing but complain for the last 2 years about imbalance from the class passes (pass vs not yet). A few classes haven't seen anything yet. The players complaining were not limited to those wanting challenge. The newer players, or long term players that still found challenge were often the loudest on the forums in their complaints about imbalance.

So yes, they are arbitrary if you are willing to wait for three years, and see some of your builds destroyed (take this to mean from non-functional to no longer optimal) to do so. Reaper is an example of power balance where some former builds no longer work well, and the class passes are a better example of how long "balance" can take.


"Because you think it would be cool" does not take priority over having game design that meets the design preferences of devs and other players. I prefer a system that does not continually break builds because "they can always fix it later". In reality, it is very hard for them to fix balance issues because they don't like to break builds. They often leave things broken rather than balancing.



Reaper was intended to be a long term system, from several years for the most efficient players to forever for less efficient/less frequent players. It is similar in magnitude to TR when it was introduced, and thus not the source of an inability to play alts.

Don't worry. You will have the option to monetize your way past it if you don't like to play the game, or must have everything on multiple toons, while playing less than others.

[Wonedream]

This is the story of Alts in a nutshell...

Past
Alts = More Revenue for the game since they didnt require so much maintenance of PLs, reaper, etc
Main = Most Revenue as usual.

Now
Alts = Far less Revenue for game since they require so much maintenance and time which main needs too.
Main = Usual Revenue but lots of time and maintenance more then in the past.

[nokowi]

This is the story of Alts in a nutshell...

Past
Alts = More Revenue for the game since they didnt require so much maintenance of PLs, reaper, etc
Main = Most Revenue as usual.

Now
Alts = Far less Revenue for game since they require so much maintenance and time which main needs too.
Main = Usual Revenue but lots of time and maintenance more then in the past.

So give alts more variety and make them more fun to play.

It's like you guys can't separate "make things easier" from "make the game better".

Nearly all the "solutions" from the RXP crowd involve making things easier without making them better, with false justifications like "its easy to adjust the power difference between players and mobs". You casually throw away YEARS of dev effort as "easy".

Someone has to have rational enough thought to understand that player vs mob power is very difficult to adjust with large negative impacts on players, and throw away the "because it's cool" argument.


I'm still waiting for a thread with solutions to make alts better. There just seems to be no interest from the entitlement crowd because this is mostly about entitlement and not really about solutions. Please prove me wrong.

[Avantasian]

There just seems to be no interest from the entitlement crowd because this is mostly about entitlement and not really about solutions. Please prove me wrong.

I have already proven that you do not understand the motivations people have for this. More personal attacks won't make you less wrong.

[Wonedream]

So give alts more variety and make them more fun to play.

It's like you guys can't separate "make things easier" from "make the game better".

Nearly all the "solutions" from the RXP crowd involve making things easier without making them better, with false justifications like "its easy to adjust the power difference between players and mobs". You casually throw away YEARS of dev effort as "easy".

Someone has to have rational enough thought to understand that player vs mob power is very difficult to adjust with large negative impacts on players, and throw away the "because it's cool" argument.


I'm still waiting for a thread with solutions to make alts better. There just seems to be no interest from the entitlement crowd because this is mostly about entitlement and not really about solutions. Please prove me wrong.

Im all for solutions. I had a collection of 100 alts. Lost interest in them. A solution might bring my interest back in the ones I didnt delete already.

I ask myself always first will it make the game better to play?

And that is always what I am aiming for.

If alts are more worth playing, it will make game better to play, yes.


Ways to make em worth playing, make them competitive bottom line. If they get new things that look neat but still die like a feather, they wont be fun and people will laugh. Wont work. Make them capable of taking on greater content without needing so many PLs and so much time.

The time gap is what is killing them most I think in a game that has grown one of the longest time gaps of all games that becomes a problem.

Best way to make them competitive is to tack on PLs from main so that stuff doesnt need to get repeated... that is the best thing I can think of at least. If there a better solution Im all for it.

[slarden]

I have already proven that you do not understand the motivations people have for this. More personal attacks won't make you less wrong.

It's not difficult for him or anyone to understand it's a request to make things easier. It's why more people voted against this idea in the poll than voted for it. Turbine has a long history of caving to people asking for things to be easier so the odds are high they will respond to at least some of your requests and then people can complain in a few years (or less) how things are too easy again.

[Gramh_the_Bard]

Alts don't need past lives to be competitive. Alts do not need Reaper Xp to be competitive. With those two truths in mind, what is stopping you from playing Alts but yourselves?

[Rys]

Alts don't need past lives to be competitive. Alts do not need Reaper Xp to be competitive. With those two truths in mind, what is stopping you from playing Alts but yourselves?

I want cosmetics. Kk thx bai.

[Qhualor]

This is the story of Alts in a nutshell...

Past
Alts = More Revenue for the game since they didnt require so much maintenance of PLs, reaper, etc
Main = Most Revenue as usual.

Now
Alts = Far less Revenue for game since they require so much maintenance and time which main needs too.
Main = Usual Revenue but lots of time and maintenance more then in the past.

in my nutshell

past
alts = same revenue, same maintenance and same past lives
main = same revenue, same maintenance and same past lives

now or prior to 2 months ago
alts = same revenue, same maintenance and time
main = same revenue, same maintenance and time

lots of different ways to play your characters, but my way of doing it is I focus on 1 doing 3x past lives than switch. in the cap 20 days, I used to have my main parked at cap while I leveled new characters and did the same while I did their 2nd past life. in todays game, you can focus on epic past lives on all characters while still participating in end game or still keep characters in epics while leveling other characters. I used to also at cap run raids every 3 days with all characters than in between the timer I would run epics for s/s/s and other named loot switching characters and also level a character until it was raid day again.

today I sat down and planned out how many more past lives I would have left with all 4 of my characters who already have around 30 past lives each. I have 93 total left not counting my current one. I said "wow, that's a lot." that's it. I didn't think about how long it would take me or think it would be better to focus just on 1 character. I would end up with like over 200 past lives combined. 93 past lives would mean a ton of money coming from my wallet because I like all my characters and don't care about the time investment in a game that you and others want to continue running for a long time.

[Avantasian]

It's not difficult for him or anyone to understand it's a request to make things easier. It's why more people voted against this idea in the poll than voted for it. Turbine has a long history of caving to people asking for things to be easier so the odds are high they will respond to at least some of your requests and then people can complain in a few years (or less) how things are too easy again.

Making players focus on one character is not making the game harder.

[Gramh_the_Bard]

The meta (created by players responding to the games mechanics) says that Alts are not efficient. It is a player's choice whether or not to involve themselves in the meta, because DDO's meta isn't necessary to complete content.

[Avantasian]

The meta (created by players responding to the games mechanics) says that Alts are not efficient. It is a player's choice whether or not to involve themselves in the meta, because DDO's meta isn't necessary to complete content.

That the devs should ignore the meta because players can choose to ignore the meta is probably the dumbest thing I have ever seen on these forums.