account share epic past life

[Gramh_the_Bard]

I'm not taking your word for "1-2 systems per MMO" and frankly the number of systems means little without knowing the extent of the systems.

As for the monetization the idea is that the result of the change is not to for anyone to reach their goals faster, but to have alts to actually be included in their goals at all. That is an important distinction.

Why should people who play alts have their playstyle made easier when the devs haven't done anything to make single toon play easier?

[Sam-u-r-eye]

It's important to point out that these playes are the ones choosing not to play alts and than asking or suggesting the game change for them because of their choice. They would rather blame the game than blame themselves.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Seriously this is like kids stuff.

Expect people to use tax-loops, and be obsessed with their stock portfolio---since that's what's rewarded.
There's a parallel in DDO....

We had this discussion in the Reaper forums but honestly you didn't understand it there to....

...you can't go against human nature.
1. people have keeping up with the "jone's syndrome", i.e., people are competitive
2. people will be rules lawyers when it suits them, and free-thinkers when they don't
3. people love hamster wheels, as long as they don't cause despair.

[Avantasian]

Why should people who play alts have their playstyle made easier when the devs haven't done anything to make single toon play easier?

The reality is that playing alts have become "harder" which has made people stop playing alts and thus hurt their variety. Ignore it or dissmiss it as a "player problem" if you want to, but that doesn't change the fact that it has negative consequences in the game.

[Gramh_the_Bard]

It doesn't have any negative consequences in game. Outside of those that people bring into it with them.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

It doesn't have any negative consequences in game. Outside of those that people bring into it with them.

two words: player retention

Same reason we needed reaper.

[Enoach]

...
I will repeat the simple point I've been trying to get across one more time:
Having some system requiring a specific character and some allowing shared best meets everyone's preferences. We just had a huge addition to the character specific side, and with that lots of threads and posts popped up saying that they are abandoning their alts. That lead me to the conclusion that we have are too far from the optimal point in terms of character specific vs shared.

/waves

Keep in mind that many of these posts that popped up were basing the RXP hunt on the assumption it would take them years to earn all the RXP.

With people changing how they play to earn Racial Past Lives - doing 1 to 20 and running quests at the quests base level instead of base + 2, has changed the knowledge on how long it could take.

However, there is still an issue with earning RXP at the Epic Levels which is currently exasperated for Level 30 characters due to lack of content where penalties are not applied.

Because of this, I find your conclusion was flawed based on the new information. It does have merit if based on the original assumptions.

-----
However, the OP actually started out with sharing Epic Past Lives and not RXP (RXP sharing is more a side track). But even here I don't see a need.

My preference is to keep anything that develops a character at the character level. Anything that is convenients (like racial and class unlocks, starting at level 4/7 etc.) as Account.

I base this on the fact that while these character specific developments can add power, these are not needed to be successful in completing content. I do believe character power should be measured by the context of the Environment and not based on what is available for development.

The reality is that playing alts have become "harder" which has made people stop playing alts and thus hurt their variety. Ignore it or dissmiss it as a "player problem" if you want to, but that doesn't change the fact that it has negative consequences in the game.

I think using the word "harder" is a misnomer. Playing alts now has new opportunity cost then it had before. Players abandoning alts are doing so because they feel putting time in on alts not as valuable as getting a single character more bells and whistles.

[Gramh_the_Bard]

People left BECAUSE of Reaper, so that can't be a very good basis that change is good for player retention.

[slarden]

Best meet everyones preferences. It seems pointless to have a discussion with someone who intentionally or not leaves out words from my statements, but whatever.
Also, what you quoted had nothing to do with that poll, as I said nothing about any specific change.
If what I said is false it must mean that somehow all BTA systems are inherently bad, and that it's best for the game if all loot became BTC.

Adding the word "best" changes nothing. If the devs invest time doing something half the population is for and half against - the payback isn't there. Worse yet, something the entire community would embrace could have been done with that time.

This whole thread is about sharing xp account-wide and so was the poll. It's all directly related.

BTA gear and shared xp aren't the same regardless of how many times you say they are.

[Avantasian]

Adding the word "best" changes nothing. If the devs invest time doing something half the population is for and half against - the payback isn't there. Worse yet, something the entire community would embrace could have been done with that time.

This whole thread is about sharing xp account-wide and so was the poll. It's all directly related.

BTA gear and shared xp aren't the same regardless of how many times you say they are.

If you need edit my statements and put your own context and meaning into them that only confirms my position. Thank you.

[Avantasian]

My preference is to keep anything that develops a character at the character level. Anything that is convenients (like racial and class unlocks, starting at level 4/7 etc.) as Account.

I base this on the fact that while these character specific developments can add power, these are not needed to be successful in completing content. I do believe character power should be measured by the context of the Environment and not based on what is available for development.

I respect your opinion, but the success and continued use of non-BTC loot and crafting materials reveals that your opnion is not consistent with the devs revenue goals.

Your opinion that character power should be measured in the context of enviorment also conflicts with everyone who has ever gotten a single past life to gain more power.

[Gremmlynn]

That people have stopped playing alts and thus their variety has been hurt thanks to a too large character specific grind is a fact. Ignore it or dissmiss it as a "player problem" if you want to, but that doesn't change the fact that it has negative consequences in the game.

While going the direction you suggest would likely cause me to lose the motivation to play alts, simply because they would no longer be alternate characters, but alternate versions of the same character in my mind. Possibly even to lose interest in playing the game at all due to that increased degree of shallowness being added.

So negative consequences either way.

[Gramh_the_Bard]

If you need edit my statements and put your own context and meaning into them that only confirms my position. Thank you.

You don't have a position, you're just stirring up arguments and then pointing to your lack of position when people argue against you.

[Avantasian]

You don't have a position, you're just stirring up arguments and then pointing to your lack of position when people argue against you.

The notion that one must know the optimal solution in order to identify a problem is quite ridiculous.

[Avantasian]

While going the direction you suggest would likely cause me to lose the motivation to play alts, simply because they would no longer be alternate characters, but alternate versions of the same character in my mind. Possibly even to lose interest in playing the game at all due to that increased degree of shallowness being added.

So negative consequences either way.

Why didn't BTA and unbound loot do that already? It's the same direction.

[Enoach]

I respect your opinion, but the success and continued use of non-BTC loot and crafting materials reveals that your opnion is not consistent with the devs revenue goals.

Loot is a totally different animal, first it is not guaranteed (most that is guaranteed is BTC). Binding of Crafting systems ranges from Not Bound to Bound to Account (Such as the Legendary Shroud) and Bound to Character (Thunderforge and Heroic Shroud have partial elements)

I'm not seeing the inconsistency. One for character development there is the sales of XP boosts - direct (Temp/Perm) and indirect (slayer boosts), Tomes (Attribute/Skill), Reincarnation (sure there are ways to earn some of them, but LR+s are store bought with LR+1 being common with Iconics) and even tools for skipping through epic destinies to get to the one you want.

Your opinion that character power should be measured in the context of enviorment also conflicts with everyone who has ever gotten a single past life to gain more power.

How does a single past life on a character conflict with the measurement? You don't need the past life to complete the quest, character most likely completed the same quest before they got the past life.

Past lives provide more than power. Heroic Past Lives actually benefit a build more through flexibility then they do power. Epic Past Lives have more power, but even these are not needed to complete the quests. Sure they make things easier.

Based on how you appear to be looking at the system using the character's potential they can get would be like saying that a character only needs approximately 50% of the available power to be successful.

[Enoach]

Why didn't BTA and unbound loot do that already? It's the same direction.

Actually its not.

Loot can be very specific for builds. Say an item that boosts Melee Alacrity is not useful to a spell chucker/thrower/bow user, loot items also can only be on one character at a time, for all characters to benefit you would need to leave these items in a place where the character you are playing can pick them up. But past lives passive bonuses are useful to more builds and is always available.

[Avantasian]

Loot is a totally different animal, first it is not guaranteed (most that is guaranteed is BTC). Binding of Crafting systems ranges from Not Bound to Bound to Account (Such as the Legendary Shroud) and Bound to Character (Thunderforge and Heroic Shroud have partial elements)

I'm not seeing the inconsistency. One for character development there is the sales of XP boosts - direct (Temp/Perm) and indirect (slayer boosts), Tomes (Attribute/Skill), Reincarnation (sure there are ways to earn some of them, but LR+s are store bought with LR+1 being common with Iconics) and even tools for skipping through epic destinies to get to the one you want.

In principle it's not a totally different animal at all.
There is no logical reason why the following statement does not equally apply to BTA/unbound loot.
"My preference is to keep anything that develops a character at the character level. Anything that is convenients (like racial and class unlocks, starting at level 4/7 etc.) as Account."

How does a single past life on a character conflict with the measurement? You don't need the past life to complete the quest, character most likely completed the same quest before they got the past life.

Exactly, people don't need the past lives but they get it for the power increase anyways. So what is the point of using "being able to complete content" as some sort of measuring stick when that is simply not the goal?

[Avantasian]

Actually its not.

Loot can be very specific for builds. Say an item that boosts Melee Alacrity is not useful to a spell chucker/thrower/bow user, loot items also can only be on one character at a time, for all characters to benefit you would need to leave these items in a place where the character you are playing can pick them up. But past lives passive bonuses are useful to more builds and is always available.

Crafting materials are not "build specific". It's the same direction.

[Gremmlynn]

Why didn't BTA and unbound loot do that already? It's the same direction.

Because that's something I have the option to choose not to use. Hell, for about three years I didn't even have the option to use BTA due to a lack of share bank. Characters automagically gaining xp despite not being played doesn't offer that choice.

[Avantasian]

Because that's something I have the option to choose not to use. Hell, for about three years I didn't even have the option to use BTA due to a lack of share bank. Characters automagically gaining xp despite not being played doesn't offer that choice.

I am more than willing to consider optional methods. I have nothing against it at all. Infact it sounds perfectly reasonable.