account share epic past life

[Avantasian]

its a player issue, not a game issue.

Unhappy players is a game issue.

so than the discussion on shared xp with alts is now down to specifically past lives and not all the other things xp can unlock as I pointed out before like enhancements, EDs, etc. that have far greater value and reward?

Wait, you think that I am advocating an account wide exp pool? I'm not.
I'm discussing validity of making some of the huge character specific grinds account wide to encourage people who want to play alts again. Be it reaper points, past lives, karma or just something. I showed that making a reward account wide is not inherently bad by pointing to BTA and unbound rewards, both of which are generally popular and one of which you even advocate yourself.

[nokowi]

I showed that making a reward account wide is not inherently bad by pointing to BTA and unbound rewards, both of which are generally popular and one of which you even advocate yourself.

You didn't show it was inherently good.

Your position is that it might not be bad, while ignoring the history of similar efforts. It a stance with nothing actionable for devs.

[Avantasian]

You didn't show it was inherently good.

Your position is that it might not be bad, while ignoring the history of similar efforts. It a stance with nothing actionable for devs.

I don't believe it is inherently good.

The history of similar efforts is positive, the account wide rewards in the shroud for example made people play alts like never before or since.

So far the most convincing argument against making some of the grind account wide was that people could run out of things to do too quickly. But with the numbers provided in the other thread about how long lives takes and how many even play elite it's clear that there is no need what-so-ever to worry that running out of things to do will become a noticable problem.

[nokowi]

I don't believe it is inherently good.

The history of similar efforts is positive, the account wide rewards in the shroud for example made people play alts like never before or since.

So far the most convincing argument against making some of the grind account wide was that people could run out of things to do too quickly. But with the numbers provided in the other thread about how long lives takes and how many even play elite it's clear that there is no need what-so-ever to worry that running out of things to do will become a noticable problem.

How exactly does RXP prevent another quest like shroud from being designed?

Maybe you should be asking for better quest design instead of easier shared rewards.

[slarden]

I don't believe it is inherently good.

The history of similar efforts is positive, the account wide rewards in the shroud for example made people play alts like never before or since.

So far the most convincing argument against making some of the grind account wide was that people could run out of things to do too quickly. But with the numbers provided in the other thread about how long lives takes and how many even play elite it's clear that there is no need what-so-ever to worry that running out of things to do will become a noticable problem.

Why don't you make a single thread and consolidate all your requests to make the game easier in one thread. And title it appropriately for example "Devs here are my ideas to make reaper easier for me".

[Hydian]

The OP isn't wrong in his general thinking, but it is probably too late to think about retroactively giving out bonuses for past lives, etc. Other games do this sort of thing...giving an account wide bonus for hitting certain milestones. Something like a 5% XP bonus for every level 30 character you have or an additional skill point for every past life on your account/server wouldn't be some ridiculous game breaking thing. The issue is more what we have seen in this thread in that the player base wouldn't go for it because it is a change and they inherently don't like the idea of change, especially some nebulous change undefined beyond a general idea. No, messing with existing systems seems like a difficult road to take.

They could introduce something similar to the monster manual (essentially like the WAR Tome of Knowledge) with achievements beyond simply slaying monsters that give account or server wide rewards among other things. It doesn't all need to be game affecting boosts, or not boosts that affect things for long...something like a free everlasting rod of CLW with 5 charges for every new level 1 character would be nifty. Helpful for the first half dozen levels or so and then forgotten.

Of course, none of that is needed. I have 20 or so alts now so I certainly don't need any incentive. That said, if there was a general desire on the part of SSG to use alts as a revenue stream (and there may or may not be any thought on their part in that area) then creating incentives for people to run alts is a good idea. I can see the potential there...buying slots, buying more tomes, buying XP potions, etc...it's where they get a lot of their money out of me. Obviously anything they would do in this area requires resources, so it would need to have a worthwhile ROI.

[Qhualor]

Unhappy players is a game issue.

that is true, but find me a game where there is 100% happy players no matter what the developers do. Reaper made me unhappy. so much that I haven't spent a dime on this game in about 2 months and that unless something drastically changes I will be done with the game by June. account wide xp would also make me unhappy, so much that if it ever happened and I did stay with DDO it would save me a lot of money.

Wait, you think that I am advocating an account wide exp pool? I'm not.

certainly fooled me, especially when that is exactly what I have been discussing with you for the past couple pages. flip flops are best to use at the beach, not here.

[nokowi]

They could introduce something similar to the monster manual (essentially like the WAR Tome of Knowledge) with achievements beyond simply slaying monsters that give account or server wide rewards among other things. It doesn't all need to be game affecting boosts, or not boosts that affect things for long...something like a free everlasting rod of CLW with 5 charges for every new level 1 character would be nifty. Helpful for the first half dozen levels or so and then forgotten.

I suggested a Reaper Monster Manual, and even offered up to those that wanted to spend money for multiple toons, but was ignored by those that just want easier RXP.

The root cause seems to be getting rewards without doing anything to earn them. Without this piece, those that want to do less will always be behind.

There is simply no solution for those that want to do less other than for them to be behind those that do more, or to continually chop off the player base for those that want to do less and less and less until the game shuts down.

Of course, none of that is needed. I have 20 or so alts now so I certainly don't need any incentive. That said, if there was a general desire on the part of SSG to use alts as a revenue stream (and there may or may not be any thought on their part in that area) then creating incentives for people to run alts is a good idea. I can see the potential there...buying slots, buying more tomes, buying XP potions, etc...it's where they get a lot of their money out of me. Obviously anything they would do in this area requires resources, so it would need to have a worthwhile ROI.

Alts already can generate mysterious remnants, and get quest rewards much faster. Good players will still do these things (and many others) once they get their RXP fix on their main.

[Chai]

I don't believe it is inherently good.

The history of similar efforts is positive, the account wide rewards in the shroud for example made people play alts like never before or since.

So far the most convincing argument against making some of the grind account wide was that people could run out of things to do too quickly. But with the numbers provided in the other thread about how long lives takes and how many even play elite it's clear that there is no need what-so-ever to worry that running out of things to do will become a noticable problem.

Yet, just a short time ago, the forums were alive with threads regarding not enough to do and game too easy. If reaper XP and ETR both become account wide benefits, theres not much more to do than there was when people were complaining about lack of things to do.

Furthermore, how do you deal with the people who who demand refunds, when it is made an account wide benefit shortly after people spent boxes and XP pots getting it on multiple characters? This is one of the major issues with character power entering the game through out of game means. It becomes real difficult to make changes to that system without invalidating some of the past purchases people made to get ahead in the previous iteration of the system. Once that trust is violated, do you believe there is a way to entice people to continue paying for faster character power gain again? If so, how?

[nokowi]

Furthermore, how do you deal with the people who who demand refunds, when it is made an account wide benefit shortly after people spent boxes and XP pots getting it on multiple characters?

This is a great point.

Don't expect anyone to respond to it, they want their free stuff without considering the negative impacts on others.

[Avantasian]

that is true, but find me a game where there is 100% happy players no matter what the developers do. Reaper made me unhappy. so much that I haven't spent a dime on this game in about 2 months and that unless something drastically changes I will be done with the game by June. account wide xp would also make me unhappy, so much that if it ever happened and I did stay with DDO it would save me a lot of money.

Account wide exp would indeed be a terrible idea. That does not mean that every account wide reward is a terrible idea. Starting to see my actual point now?

certainly fooled me, especially when that is exactly what I have been discussing with you for the past couple pages. flip flops are best to use at the beach, not here.

How could it possibly have occured to you that I advocated that? Point me to any such post.
Hilarious, you insert yourself into an ongoing discussion, completely misunderstands it and now when you are confronted you accuse me of flip floping.

[Avantasian]

Yet, just a short time ago, the forums were alive with threads regarding not enough to do and game too easy. If reaper XP and ETR both become account wide benefits, theres not much more to do than there was when people were complaining about lack of things to do.

I don't recall those complaints. Not taking your word for it.
Reaper made the game harder, so it should be fine.

Furthermore, how do you deal with the people who who demand refunds, when it is made an account wide benefit shortly after people spent boxes and XP pots getting it on multiple characters? This is one of the major issues with character power entering the game through out of game means. It becomes real difficult to make changes to that system without invalidating some of the past purchases people made to get ahead in the previous iteration of the system. Once that trust is violated, do you believe there is a way to entice people to continue paying for faster character power gain again? If so, how?

If all reaper exp was made account wide that would not be a problem. No one would lose anything.

[Avantasian]

How exactly does RXP prevent another quest like shroud from being designed?

Maybe you should be asking for better quest design instead of easier shared rewards.

So you agree that the history of similar efforts are positive? Great!

[Gremmlynn]

What about finishing a character is it you don't get?

A reason to play it after that point actually. This game really doesn't offer one, so a 'finished" character is basically a pointless character.

All this game really offers is the journey as the destination is a lot like a grave.

[Gremmlynn]

There is more than enough grinding to keep players busy for years and years. It's not like the majority of players had run out of things to do before racial PLs and RXP.
Causing players to play more characters creates variety.
Look, Im not asking for sharing of all grinds.

If account wide rewards are inherently bad, the same must apply to unbound and BTA loot.

There is nothing "inherently" bad about account wide rewards. They just wouldn't do what some here seem to be claiming. Frankly, all the rewards in the game are set up in whatever manner SSG feels they best serve SSG. Not along some subjective scale of good and bad or wrong and right. But by what they feel gets them the best return on their development buck. If that's xp sharing, then it's something we likely will see. I just doubt they feel that way.

[Avantasian]

There is nothing "inherently" bad about account wide rewards. They just wouldn't do what some here seem to be claiming.

Like what?

[Gremmlynn]

No.
Just earn it on each toon.
Or become your main.

Or simply use what they have.

[Gremmlynn]

Why is it the people that should be apologizing to others are always the ones demanding apologies.

Personally, I think that anyone who expects any sort of apology here is simply guilty of having unreasonable expectations (and likely a thin skin).

[Avantasian]

Personally, I think that anyone who expects any sort of apology here is simply guilty of having unreasonable expectations (and likely a thin skin).

I was surprised that I actually got an apology. I guess he realized that his complete fabrications about my position only served to further poison the disussion climate.
That it's unreasonable of me to expect a honest discussion where people admit when they are wrong and actually change their position based on new information and not turn to fabrications and misrepresentations is sad.

[Gremmlynn]

Explain the bolded part below and why loot is exempt but exp is not. I'm all ears.

Loot is simply a different animal. It's specific, where xp is general. Finding an axe that barbarian character A could use while playing cleric character B as an example. While xp is just as useful for every character.