new ideal race for tempest

[the_one_dwarfforged]

so assuming you had 10 racial ap to spend, it would seem that human definitely stops being the best choice for a ranger.

the question then is, is horc or wf overall better? horc i think translates more easily from human and gains plenty of benefit from those 10 ap essentially for free and without any real need to spend more than that. wf though could possibly pull 6 ap from somewhere and get 15 additional mp. the problem with wf though i feel is that 6 ap is kind of pricey on a ranger but could be mitigated by not spending on survivalist since it wouldnt give prr in mithril body (according to the wiki anyway), but you are also down 2 feats compared to a human, and are paying a hamp penalty.

anyway. thoughts?

[FuzzyDuck81]

I tend not to worry about pure melee damage dealing so much & prefer extra utility & capabilities.
Elf - displacement dragonmark - will cost you a feat (or 2 if you take extend) and 2 AP beyond the free ones, but the duration vs. any scroll or even greensteel clicky is worth it IMO
half elf - with the dilettante AP costs reduced, easy access to a whole bunch of useful scrolls & wands without worrying about UMD (meaning you can actually use them while levelling!) can be really good
Shadar-kai - either keep the initial rogue level for trap skills or LR it out. The cores give the shadow phase & shadow jaunt abilities which are really rather nice.
Morninglord - probably want to LR out the initial cleric level, but rejuvenation of dawn & blessing of amaunator are great, a decent duration (mass) death ward is far less hassle than relying on the shorter-duration visor & that'll only cost you 1 AP beyond the free ones.

Since rangers are pretty flexible with feats, you could even invest in extra metamagics & go for drow to get the newly improved darkfire SLA, or dragonborn & have the fun of dragonbreath, even wings with some AP investment.

[FranOhmsford]

Are we really having this conversation already?

How long is it going to be seriously before enough players have enough racial past lives for this to be a thing - 1 year, 2?

[Saekee]

Are we really having this conversation already?

How long is it going to be seriously before enough players have enough racial past lives for this to be a thing - 1 year, 2?

I suspect that you will see people posting in a couple of months that they did it already

[FranOhmsford]

I suspect that you will see people posting in a couple of months that they did it already

Yeah, a handful maybe but are we really going to base the standard on.....Oh sorry, I don't know what I was thinking there - Of course we are!

[Steve_Howe]

I suspect that you will see people posting in a couple of months that they did it already

I guess there's still a functioning Otto's dupe, then, huh?

[unbongwah]

How long is it going to be seriously before enough players have enough racial past lives for this to be a thing - 1 year, 2?

If Racial TR has same 3-day cooldown as HTR, then 30 * 3 = 90 days after U35 go live before this conversation is relevant.

If there is no CD, then presuming a 10K XP/min rate, 380 minutes per life * 30 RRs = 11,400 minutes -> 8 days non-stop. So let's say twice that to account for sleep etc.

Or was that question rhetorical?

[ValariusK]

Thing is, human has already been pushed way down the stack, since the damage boost doesn't stack anymore. Frankly at +20 nonstacking its more of an AP tax than anything else outside of really low levels, where rangers are plenty strong anyway. I suspect that Halfling will become the new meta for tempests, as you get a lot more for a dex build and bonus sneak attack dice than a human does. The bonus to all saves all the time doesn't hurt either. The bonus feat and bonus skill points are of debatable worth for a ranger---especially a pure ranger. The extra feat normally winds up giving you +2 MP.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

wow guys. well, first off i am not one of the people to whom this is going to be applying anytime soon. i dont play enough, and i dont play hard enough, and i dont like tring, so you may ask why such a person is the one who started this conversation. its a thought exercise. we are going to get to the point where this conversation is indeed relevant. i just wanted to see what other people thought about it.

lets just keep things on topic from now on?

I tend not to worry about pure melee damage dealing so much & prefer extra utility & capabilities.
Elf - displacement dragonmark - will cost you a feat (or 2 if you take extend) and 2 AP beyond the free ones, but the duration vs. any scroll or even greensteel clicky is worth it IMO
half elf - with the dilettante AP costs reduced, easy access to a whole bunch of useful scrolls & wands without worrying about UMD (meaning you can actually use them while levelling!) can be really good
Shadar-kai - either keep the initial rogue level for trap skills or LR it out. The cores give the shadow phase & shadow jaunt abilities which are really rather nice.
Morninglord - probably want to LR out the initial cleric level, but rejuvenation of dawn & blessing of amaunator are great, a decent duration (mass) death ward is far less hassle than relying on the shorter-duration visor & that'll only cost you 1 AP beyond the free ones.

Since rangers are pretty flexible with feats, you could even invest in extra metamagics & go for drow to get the newly improved darkfire SLA, or dragonborn & have the fun of dragonbreath, even wings with some AP investment.

elf will still not be worth playing for people who have 10 racial ap, since those people will very likely have plenty of displacement clickies. i know i do at least. plus displacement has reduced value in reaper anyway.

half elf actually is a good idea i had forgotten, with free ap and reduced dilettante costs, rogue dile is looking pretty nice right now. forget that clr dile stuff though, massive waste with umd so available.

i had also considered sdk but i feel the potential free (and not quite free) dps gains available from racial trees outweighs choosing a race that you have to pay to get rid of a class level for just for a jump ability. i do consider it to be one of the top tier utility choices one could make with their extra ap.

Thing is, human has already been pushed way down the stack, since the damage boost doesn't stack anymore. Frankly at +20 nonstacking its more of an AP tax than anything else outside of really low levels, where rangers are plenty strong anyway. I suspect that Halfling will become the new meta for tempests, as you get a lot more for a dex build and bonus sneak attack dice than a human does. The bonus to all saves all the time doesn't hurt either. The bonus feat and bonus skill points are of debatable worth for a ranger---especially a pure ranger. The extra feat normally winds up giving you +2 MP.

at the moment human is actually still the best race for ranger. you gain a free feat and skill points, and the racial damage boost is still good because you can sustain some level of boosting for longer since running out of boosts is more of a reality in reaper.

with 10 free ap though halfling actually does become quite a good choice. i hadnt even considered it because its not something id ever play, but it could be very strong.

[scipiojedi]

so assuming you had 10 racial ap to spend, it would seem that human definitely stops being the best choice for a ranger.

the question then is, is horc or wf overall better? horc i think translates more easily from human and gains plenty of benefit from those 10 ap essentially for free and without any real need to spend more than that. wf though could possibly pull 6 ap from somewhere and get 15 additional mp. the problem with wf though i feel is that 6 ap is kind of pricey on a ranger but could be mitigated by not spending on survivalist since it wouldnt give prr in mithril body (according to the wiki anyway), but you are also down 2 feats compared to a human, and are paying a hamp penalty.

anyway. thoughts?

Halfling. Always halfling.

[Jetrule]

Strength based I would probably be going for half ork with a chance at human. Dex based likely halfling. With strong consideration to dragon marked elf, or human. Any way you go it will be a better ranger than you can build now. Heal amp and a extra feat with better int for kta does count heavily in my book.

[adrian69]

Stat wise, here is where the races fall for making the most of one stat.


Strength Based Option:

Human/PDK--Allows for everything a tempest needs to be well-rounded
Horc: Highest Possible Damage With New Option and Racial AP
Helf: IMO, the best option next to horc with rogue dilly making up some of the dual racial boost.
Dwarf w/ Daxes: More Flavor and Boss Beater
Warforged--Will work best w/ racial AP
Bladeforged--Will work best w/ racial AP
SDK: Alt to Helf with 1 less Charisma skill, but you can pretend to be emo
Dragon Born: Probably more flavor next to orc and helf

Dex Based Option

Helf w/ Rog Dilly: Same reason as strength. An extra 1d6 can be big in heroics.
Elf: The original tempest. Not worth it until grace is adjusted
Drow: Nothing special here, looks, and flavor.
Gnome/DG: Giving up KtA and DWS T5 provides some extra protection. More flavor.
Halfling: Same as Elf or Gnome, but with slightly better saves, AC, and 1 more damage with SoE
SDK: Will be alright with racial.

Intelligence Based Option

These builds certainly need racial AP if you plan on playing in the racial tree to make up for the DPS loss from Tempest/DWS to help hit Harpers Hit-to-Dmg. Human probably for best small reasons with Gnome having the edge due to being able to start 20/16 con/ rest in wisdom for more self healing and spell points and I think they're self explanatory with the exception of needing ins. reflexes


DG/Gnome
Drow
Self
Human

[AbyssalMage]

Dex based,
hElf - Elf hit% + hAmp + SA
Elf - % to hit is huge (as others have noted); gear would offset anything else beneficial (after 30 RR pl's I would hope)
Halfing - (scaling) SA and Saves; if you primarily group, not solo, I would place above Elf

Str based,
... Races listed above plus...
hOrc - Not sure where they fit in to the above 3 but at they look like they benefited the most from this update (on the surface).

I'm not even sure Human could be considered "Top 5" for min/max on melee toons now once you have 30 RR pl's. I will never have 30 RR pl's so Human will always be a consideration but I like Elves for when I roll Ranger, even before Ranger was "cool."