Clarification on Racial Incarnation bonuses

[C-Dog]

(Edit: Racial REincarnation Bonuses) :P

2 quick questions -

1) Are the RR bonuses available immediately for a new toon? So, a triple completionist would, as early as Level 1, add +2 to Dex, Con, Int & Cha, +1 to Str & Wis, plus 10 Racial AP?

Or are these, more like Tomes, spread out and added slowly over many levels?


2) Also, just to be clear, are the stat bonuses just modifiers, or are they more like Tome/Racial adjustments? Specifically, will they add to stats to qualify for Feats, count towards Int for Skill Points, etc?

Just curious, looking forward to it either way, thx!

[Cantor]

Curious too, would be great if they met reqs for feats. I think they should since they are not something that could go away, but if they don't no big deal.

[C-Dog]

Anyone know? Devs? Bueller?

[YUTANG75]

Regarding the racial AP I feel they should be distributed at one per level starting at level one. Specifically at the start of the level. Ie, a reincarnated lvl 1 racial completionist would start with 1 bonus point and gain the next one at the start of level 2.
This way up to 20 races can exist without the system breaking.

[Cocomajobo]

(Edit: Racial REincarnation Bonuses) :P
1) Are the RR bonuses available immediately for a new toon? So, a triple completionist would, as early as Level 1, add +2 to Dex, Con, Int & Cha, +1 to Str & Wis, plus 10 Racial AP?

Or are these, more like Tomes, spread out and added slowly over many levels?

The bonuses from Racial Past Life Feats are granted at level 1.

2) Also, just to be clear, are the stat bonuses just modifiers, or are they more like Tome/Racial adjustments? Specifically, will they add to stats to qualify for Feats, count towards Int for Skill Points, etc?

Attribute bonuses from racial past life feats do not impact your ability to qualify for feat prerequisites or your skill point pool.

[Powerhungry]

Attribute bonuses from racial past life feats do not impact your ability to qualify for feat prerequisites or your skill point pool.

A little confused by this.
If I have two drow PL and two gnome PL each grant +1 to INT (+2 total) - when do these bonuses show up/apply?
During character creation? Build a human (all stats are base 8) - does my INT show as base 10 because of the two PL bonuses?
If so, then the bonuses DO affect your ability to qualify for feats and skill points as your abilities are higher. If they don't then what purpose do they serve if they don't affect anything?

[madmaxhunter]

A little confused by this.
If I have two drow PL and two gnome PL each grant +1 to INT (+2 total) - when do these bonuses show up/apply?
During character creation? Build a human (all stats are base 8) - does my INT show as base 10 because of the two PL bonuses?
If so, then the bonuses DO affect your ability to qualify for feats and skill points as your abilities are higher. If they don't then what purpose do they serve if they don't affect anything?

If I read it correctly, you can TR or RR. RR is different than the TR system. In other words, you racial reincarnate and ONLY get bonuses for the race. You don't get two-fers. Sadly, since I have done all races on the path to completionist (7 away from triple).

Edit: oops, misread your post, you were just talking about racial PLs. NVM.

[Gratch]

A little confused by this.
If I have two drow PL and two gnome PL each grant +1 to INT (+2 total) - when do these bonuses show up/apply?
During character creation? Build a human (all stats are base 8) - does my INT show as base 10 because of the two PL bonuses?
If so, then the bonuses DO affect your ability to qualify for feats and skill points as your abilities are higher. If they don't then what purpose do they serve if they don't affect anything?

Doesn't sound like they act like base attribute, attribute bumps or tome bonuses... more like enhancement bumps you would select to increase a stat, but that you get granted at level 1.

There's a large gulf between "not helping with feat qualification/adding skill points" and +2 stacking int "doesn't affect anything". (helps with int-based DC's, +1 to int skills (like spellcraft), finding Rayium, Harper Int to-hit, Int to-damage, Knowing Angles, etc.)

You could stick with Dwarf, Warforged past lives. You'll see an instant HP increase at level 1 from that +2 con. Though you still won't qualify for Resilience with base 11 con.

[Cocomajobo]

A little confused by this.
If I have two drow PL and two gnome PL each grant +1 to INT (+2 total) - when do these bonuses show up/apply?
During character creation? Build a human (all stats are base 8) - does my INT show as base 10 because of the two PL bonuses?
If so, then the bonuses DO affect your ability to qualify for feats and skill points as your abilities are higher. If they don't then what purpose do they serve if they don't affect anything?

They apply to your character at level 1 and grant all in game bonuses associated with having a higher ability score modifier (DC Calculations, +to hit and damage, Hit Points, etc.) except for being used as pre-requisites during character creation or level up.

[C-Dog]

A little confused by this.

I'm confused how you can be confused when it was just spelled out clearly.

"At level 1" is not "during character creation". They do NOT change the base value, not like racial mods do. Think of them as the same as Enhancement modifiers.

The bonuses from Racial Past Life Feats are granted at level 1.
...
Attribute bonuses from racial past life feats do not impact your ability to qualify for feat prerequisites or your skill point pool.

Thank you, Cmj!

[Powerhungry]

They apply to your character at level 1 and grant all in game bonuses associated with having a higher ability score modifier (DC Calculations, +to hit and damage, Hit Points, etc.) except for being used as pre-requisites during character creation or level up.

OK-- so during creation I would have to put enough points into INT to qualify for combat expertise (INT 13) - but after I create my character and pop up on Korthos, my past life bonus would put my INT at 14.

[C-Dog]

OK-- so during creation I would have to put enough points into INT to qualify for combat expertise (INT 13) - but after I create my character and pop up on Korthos, my past life bonus would put my INT at 14.

You said you had +2, so it'd end at 15 - but yes.

Mouse-over Int on Char sheet would read (something like) "Base 13, +2 Feat/Effect" (forget exact wording).

[Theolin]

They apply to your character at level 1 and grant all in game bonuses associated with having a higher ability score modifier (DC Calculations, +to hit and damage, Hit Points, etc.) except for being used as pre-requisites during character creation or level up.

Oh man, is this going to confuse folks ... they will see their stat being high enough for a feat ... and have no clue why they cannot take it ... I can see the complaints already

Also, pretty bummed over this as well, I thought that they would be more helpful ... bummer ..... well, the good news is, now I don't see a good enough reason to bother with them.

[Gratch]

Oh man, is this going to confuse folks ... they will see their stat being high enough for a feat ... and have no clue why they cannot take it ... I can see the complaints already

Not much different than all the other stacking bonuses that don't help with feat acquisition but increase your total stat - all of which show up on the character sheet total. Ship buffs, item buffs, enhancements, etc.

Mouse over stat, add base plus tome inherent bonus to know your feat qualification attribute total.

[Enoach]

They apply to your character at level 1 and grant all in game bonuses associated with having a higher ability score modifier (DC Calculations, +to hit and damage, Hit Points, etc.) except for being used as pre-requisites during character creation or level up.

Oh man, is this going to confuse folks ... they will see their stat being high enough for a feat ... and have no clue why they cannot take it ... I can see the complaints already

Also, pretty bummed over this as well, I thought that they would be more helpful ... bummer ..... well, the good news is, now I don't see a good enough reason to bother with them.

This is the same way the current completionist feat works you get all the benefits except as part of the Pre-reqs and as far as calculating skill points. Basically those calculations don't change - Base + Tome.

[Blastyswa]

They apply to your character at level 1 and grant all in game bonuses associated with having a higher ability score modifier (DC Calculations, +to hit and damage, Hit Points, etc.) except for being used as pre-requisites during character creation or level up.

Any chance they could possibly be implemented as an inherent bonus? I hadn't even considered that, but I see a lot more worth for them if they allow you more freedom in starting stats (Like if I need to take power attack +cleave at some point before epic levels on a dexterity damage and to hit build, instead of having to dump some points into strength I can do 8 base +1 inherent +4 tome and do power attack at level 15 and cleave at level 18).

[C-Dog]

Any chance they could possibly be implemented as an inherent bonus?

You want to turn 36 pt builds into a 46 pt builds? PLUS the +10 AP and skill bonuses...

Allow me to respond appropriately... I started this thread, my question has been answered, anything else is OT, Mods feel free to close this thread, thx. <washes hands>

[Requiro]

The bonuses from Racial Past Life Feats are granted at level 1.

Is there any chance, to change it? Like extra free 1 Racial AP (3rd TR) feat grants each level up to 10 on level 10.

I mean, eventually 10 free AP in Racial Tree on level 1 is quite OP

Gap between new customers and veterans will be huge (and boring for new players).

[Blastyswa]

You want to turn 36 pt builds into a 46 pt builds? PLUS the +10 AP and skill bonuses...

Allow me to respond appropriately... I started this thread, my question has been answered, anything else is OT, Mods feel free to close this thread, thx. <washes hands>

It allows for the bonuses to help with designing a character instead of just being straight additional power. Like if I have a strength based paladin build with +5 tomes that I want to have get the TWF line without full ranger levels, and Combat Expertise, and Epic Toughness (A stretch I know, but just go with it), currently I'd probably start that build something like (Half Elf or Human):
Str: 18+Level Ups
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 9
Wis: 8
Cha: 11
Which would let me take combat expertise at level 15 or 18 with the tome, TWF at levels 3, 12, and 15 or 18, and epic toughness at 21 or higher. While that does work, that leaves me with my level 12, 15, and 18 feats all taken up by combat expertise and ITWF/GTWF. If level 9 I take improved critical, then I'm really not making out so well on feat placement. If I have the full bonuses of racial past lives, this build could be changed into something like this:

Str: 19+Level Ups
Dex: 16
Con: 16
Int: 10
Wis: 9
Cha: 17

The main things that changed are that I removed the point from intelligence, and two points from constitution, and put them into charisma. So now the build has still maxed strength, TWF at level 1, ITWF at level 6+, and GTWF at level 12+, as well as being able to take combat expertise at level 12+, as well as having a gain of +6 charisma since I didn't need the point in intelligence anymore and I could pull some points from constitution. That means I could now have my level 3 feat open still, but instead of having my level 6 feat open I would have a level 15 or 18 feat open, at which level I have many more options.

[Requiro]

<snip>

In short: More Power Creep.

IMO: No.