Racial Past Life Opinion Poll

[Loromir]

I voted with heroic past lives as that's the way that Iconics get it

....and it was a mistake to allow that.

[Blastyswa]

Wow, thanks all for the feedback. Right now "With heroic lives" is in the lead, but there really is more "As their own thing" people than I expected, and it's interesting to see everyones opinions. I'll just do a little multi-quote here to give my thoughts on a few things:

I am perfectly fine with another life grind. Triple completionist is a choice, not a requirement, so any efforts there are cosmetic and prideful more than functional to the game, to me. Do I wish a system was in place to reward all that effort for triple complete? Yeah. But that hasn't happened.

OK, I think we're in agreement on this part then. Personally I think that if you went for Triple Completionist at the time of it's release, you were doing it knowing "Ok, this life will give me +2 spell pen and +2 DC with wands. Ok, this life will give me +1 to hit and +1 to tactics.". It never entered into my head at least "OK, so when in the future if something is introduced that can overlap with these past lives then that unfairly benefits other people". If it had, I would have complained when people had the potential to get 12 past lives while doing iconics when iconics were made able to reincarnate and get multiple lives.

From the main u35 thread Lots of stuff

Interesting, so if I'm understanding you right you'd like for Racial TR to be possible as it's own thing either from 1-20 or from 20-30, and additional possibility to get some bonuses at cap if you don't want to TR any. I think that's interesting, but I guess my question then becomes this. If that were the situation to be introduced, what are the reasons to not have the 1-20 grind also grant the heroic past life of your dominant class, and the 20-30 grind to also include an EPL?

Look at it from a detached perspective.The effect of allowing for dual PLs obviously depends on the player. Strictly in terms of the resulting length of the grind:

Separate systems (no dual PL) is, for everyone who is not a triple completionist, equivalent to extending the upper limit of the grind (maximum of XP that can still grand power).

Look at the current design for racial PLs, it is very heavily backloaded. The first PL is mostly rubbish, and having them all grants a lot of flexibility (10 AP is truly huge). This is even more backloaded than completionist.

What this tells me is that this is MEANT to be a big grind, so it is extremely unlikely that they go with dual PLs; it would completely defeat the design goal.

Ok, so as I understand you're saying that this increases the grind more for everyone who isn't a triple completionist than for those who are if they want to max everything out. I definitely agree with that, as it is most definitively a true statement. I also agree that the PLs are heavily back-loaded, so that realistically if you're thinking of doing a racial TR you need to be thinking of doing 3 racial TRs. What I don't agree with is that dual-PLs will defeat that design goal. Realistically, I expect that anyone who has been here several years and focusing on TRing is about done with their TRs. It took me about 2-3 years to get triple completionist on my main character, but more recently when I tried single completionist on an alt (Without even using cheese like warlock in every build) it took me about 2-3 months, with working 60 hour weeks and having a life. Now for those who've maxed out their heroic past lives, or at least maxed out every one they're interested in getting, the grind is still looking to be 30 racial TRs.

For a new player or new alt, that grind goes up significantly. Basically what I'm trying to ask for is that the grind is leveled out for everyone more at this point, with heroic past lives having been introduced for most of the games life, and give new alts and new players more catch-up chance, as well as it just making sense. If I ground 30 racial PLs on my main and someone else grinds 30 racial PLs on their new alt, we'll have the same racial PL's but they'll be down 42 heroic past lives compared to myself. If racial PLs are paired with heroic PLs, my grind will be the exact same, but when they get done they'll only have 12 more heroic PLs to go. So yes, this would reduce the grind for characters who aren't done with heroic past lives. I think it's still a big enough grind, and it makes sense that they be bonded when you play through a life as a race and a class. After all, how would that conversation go at the life-shaper with the current system? "Alright Player, focus really hard on what race you are this life. Don't focus on your class, because if you do that's all you'll remember. It's not possible for you to feel the remnant effects of both your race and your class". Of course that brings us to how reincarnation would even work, which we're not getting into.

I voted for the double dip.

I think it would encourage some more interesting builds vs. everybody going with the best meta for that race to knock out their 3 for that one. Which in turn might make for some interesting groups where people aren't at max power.

Agreed. I had plans on my single completionist alt to do some builds like a pure dwarven wizard that swings an axe around and wears a skyvault shield at level 12+, a dragonborn paladin that breaths fire and swings swords, and a barbarian half-orc that deals huge damage per swing. My new plan is a 14/4/2 warlock/fighter/barbarian build that has sprint boost, +20% HP/+6 constitution, and warlock bursting damage. Chances are after running that a few times on my main I'll be pretty freaking sick of the game, but when the only thing that matters is your race it makes sense to do the best class you can, and then keep doing that best class.

As for the poll I said: No. Why? Because apparently "other" is never an option anymore that allows others to give an opinion in a poll that goes against the original choices. For the lives to combine of heroic and racial I'd think players would have to do a give and take situation. Instead of being able to tr right away for a racial/class past life at 20 say go to level 28. This adding an additional 6.2 mill xp making the total 10 mill. Still being shy 1 mill of what an iconic has to do.

I wouldn't have any problem with an extension of xp requirements if you wanted both lives. I also wouldn't make it quite so linear though, because I find that heroic past lives takes longer than iconic past lives. Being able to do just 5 heroic levels and then break into the realm of EN x2 dailies means a pretty quick reincarnation, while going heroic 1-20 with lots of EBB (Or r1BB) questing takes quite a bit longer most of the time. I'd probably set the required xp more to about level 25.

I look at it like this...suppose SSG created this fabulous new piece of gear...something everyone would want. Wouldn't it seem logical they create some new mechanism to obtain it?

SSG has created a way to obtain +1 to many skills, +1 to all stats and +2 to some stats, Additional AP's to spend in the racial trees. Why would they let you get that by just continuing to do what you are already doing.

Lets face it, most people are going to continue to heroic TR anyway...regardless of what happens in U35. So to boil it down, if they allow Racial TR and Class TR take place simultaneously, then they would be basically be giving away those extra for free. Then let's hear the whining about power creep. At least now, you have to do something extra to gain those past lives.

The way I see it, they're reusing an already used mechanic (Heroic TRing) and just changing the requirement and the reward. So in terms of a fantastic new piece of gear, I think of it more as if they went back and said "Ok, we added a new way to get a new item that takes up a new equipment slot called "Pants", and it gives you +2 to most ability scores, +1 to some different skills, and +10 racial AP, and it can be used from ml 1. If you want this item, you need to run slavers for 1000 Legendary Broken Bracelets, 1000 Legendary Bruised Sausage Links, and 1000 Legendary Border Collies. While doing this grind, you aren't able to acquire any of the normal Slavers crafting ingredients". Sure this is technically a new item, but its not really a new mechanism; however you perfume it it still smells like another 300 runs of slavers.

The thing is on the second point, you are getting these bonuses by continuing what you are already doing. If someone is currently grinding for heroic past lives, this update will just change them from running a certain class to running a certain race, and doing that 30 times in a row, in basically the exact same way they were doing heroic lives. Once that's done, they'll just swap back to the heroic past life grind, which basically just makes this an extension for everyone, especially those who haven't already maxed out HPLs.

I wouldn't say the bonus would be exactly for free; people would be required to play both the class they want and the race they want. So triple completionists could still do 30x warlock builds if they wanted. Once someone becomes a racial completionist, they can finish their HPLs all as humans if they want. If you want both the class and the race bonus, you have to play things like dwarven fighters, rogue halflings, wizard elves, etc. You'd still have to do something extra to get those past lives (Changing your build), it's just that that something extra isn't invest 500 more hours into the game for grinding.

Not sure what you are saying here as 6 lives on one race. 3 lives on one race will award skill, stat, AP.

I believe what he was saying is, for example, if your goal is to get +2 constitution you need to do 2x lives warforged and 2x lives dwarf, and at that point you might as well do 3x for the extra points. The only thing he messed up on is that the total is still 30 past lives, not 60.

[Zeleron]

I wouldn't have any problem with an extension of xp requirements if you wanted both lives. I also wouldn't make it quite so linear though, because I find that heroic past lives takes longer than iconic past lives. Being able to do just 5 heroic levels and then break into the realm of EN x2 dailies means a pretty quick reincarnation, while going heroic 1-20 with lots of EBB (Or r1BB) questing takes quite a bit longer most of the time. I'd probably set the required xp more to about level 25.

Ill be honest I actually was going to say 25 at first. I changed it to 28 because that put it closer to the same total xp an iconic has to get. As for heroic/epic leveling speed I think that's a matter of preference I actually do faster in heroics cause I like it more than epic. Epics for me although they give more xp seem boring and grinding a lot of the same quests where as heroics it goes from 1 quest to the next without as much of the grinding of the same quest.

[deconedi]

With heroic pasl life

[Sam-u-r-eye]

With Heroic past lives. Newbies need a way to catch up to vets a little bit.

+1
I voted no but would change my vote.

[Saekee]

All xp used is from a third life and beyond.
1-20: 3.8 mill xp.
15-30 9.95 mill xp.
You also don't get an epic past life feat for doing the iconic tr'ing. Iconics have to earn vastly more xp 1.7 mill heroic and 8.25 mill epic xp then a regular 1-20 third life toon.

As for the poll I said: No. Why? Because apparently "other" is never an option anymore that allows others to give an opinion in a poll that goes against the original choices. For the lives to combine of heroic and racial I'd think players would have to do a give and take situation. Instead of being able to tr right away for a racial/class past life at 20 say go to level 28. This adding an additional 6.2 mill xp making the total 10 mill. Putting it at just about the same xp an iconic has to do.

just a note: epics give more xp even for identical quests so one cannot compare the totals 1:1

it would be interesting to do a full comparison but my general feeling is that one can do an epic life quickly due to selecting high xp dailies whereas heroics do not have so easy an option.

[Loromir]

it's just that that something extra isn't invest 500 more hours into the game for grinding.

From a business stand point, this is exactly what SSG needs to accomplish. A reason for someone to spend and additional "X" number of hours playing the game. When people play the game...there is the potential they will spend money on the game.

If they allow Heroic and Racial TR to be concurrent...then they have defeated the whole monetary purpose for creating the new system to begin with.

[Blastyswa]

From a business stand point, this is exactly what SSG needs to accomplish. A reason for someone to spend and additional "X" number of hours playing the game. When people play the game...there is the potential they will spend money on the game.

If they allow Heroic and Racial TR to be concurrent...then they have defeated the whole monetary purpose for creating the new system to begin with.

There's also a point though where having too much monotonous grind isn't good from a business standpoint. Having TR options, gear farming options, raiding, crafting systems, and other things is good. Having a 2,000 hour time investment to do the same thing 72 times is more likely to drive away players than to keep them.

[BigErkyKid]

Ok, so as I understand you're saying that this increases the grind more for everyone who isn't a triple completionist than for those who are if they want to max everything out. I definitely agree with that, as it is most definitively a true statement. I also agree that the PLs are heavily back-loaded, so that realistically if you're thinking of doing a racial TR you need to be thinking of doing 3 racial TRs.

What I don't agree with is that dual-PLs will defeat that design goal.

For a new player or new alt, that grind goes up significantly.

They have the technology to allow for dual PL. We have a similar example with heroic + epic PL.

They chose NOT TO allow for dual PL. If it is a choice, we have to rationalize it; or are you assuming they are not thinking this through carefully? They chose it because it obviously extends the grind. The whole "replay value" of DDO is about grinding XP via repeating content dozens of times.

Anything that shortens the grind reduces replay value, which obviously goes against the whole design philosophy of those PLs. I brought up the backloading as an example of this design. Backloading so strongly is done to encourage people to do the whole thing, as you acknowledge. With heroic PLs, for example, this was not the case. This backloading is certainly done to lengthen the racial PL grind.

In other words, DDO is now embracing a low cost development paradigm to its fullest. Reaper was low cost, racial PLs are also super low cost. Content will come in an expansion at the cost of having starved us for months / years with mostly "systems based" updates. Do you believe they will pump out content faster now than in the past? I don't, and hence stopped giving my feedback on these new PLs and so on. I now understand this is a conscious business model decision; they are designing a game that is not for me.

And then you suggest that they shoot themselves in the foot by REDUCING arbitrarily the grind? Heck no!

[SuperNiCd]

Anything that shortens the grind reduces replay value, which obviously goes against the whole design philosophy of those PLs. I brought up the backloading as an example of this design. Backloading so strongly is done to encourage people to do the whole thing, as you acknowledge. With heroic PLs, for example, this was not the case. This backloading is certainly done to lengthen the racial PL grind.

In other words, DDO is now embracing a low cost development paradigm to its fullest. Reaper was low cost, racial PLs are also super low cost. Content will come in an expansion at the cost of having starved us for months / years with mostly "systems based" updates. Do you believe they will pump out content faster now than in the past? I don't, and hence stopped giving my feedback on these new PLs and so on. I now understand this is a conscious business model decision; they are designing a game that is not for me.

And then you suggest that they shoot themselves in the foot by REDUCING arbitrarily the grind? Heck no!

Yeah, I think you're spot on BigErkyKid. The developers aren't stupid. They weighed the pros/cons of doing it both ways I'm sure, and the way it came out on Lamma is what won that debate. Don't really see this poll inspiring a change to what's already been coded.

I'm not really too worried about it either way. I've already made a conscious decision that I'm not going to jump on this or any other hamster wheel. That doesn't mean I'm going to quit, or that I won't TR or RR. But I'm just not going to make stacks of PLs any kind of pressing goal. So basically I'll keep playing as much as I have been, and spend the same amount as I have been, for as long as I'm still enjoying the game.

[TrucidaHead]

The iconic past lives already work fine together - when you do the resurrection attempt you earn both lives (class and iconic). I dont get why it (class and racial) wouldn't be that way.. A similar mechanic already exists, what would be the reason to create something totally new?

[Mglaxix]

Heroic TR Required 42

Iconic TR Required 15

Epic TR Required 36

Racial TR Required 30



Minimum TR Required before U35 with no Epic TR - 42

By combining Heroic and Iconic lives you can save yourself 15 Heroic TR already

Minimum TR Required After U35 with no Epic TR - 72 - Boosts SSG income which if you want to support your game is a good thing

Minimum TR Required for Double Dip Lives as you want it - 45 - Does nothing for SSG income.


Surely part of the reason for Racial TR and Reaper will give people that have Triples already done a reason to TR again. SSG income


You are basically asking for level one Iconic lives that run to 20 and TR back to 1 for a meager 3.8 mil xp I find that personally laughable at best. One good 3 day weekend run per life.

You would get to double dip on the +2 to all stats basically ( only 2 more races needed for this ) and 10 skills +2 that you get from Heroic and Racial Past lives in one pass with 42 lives versus 72 lives

[Blastyswa]

Heroic TR Required 42

Iconic TR Required 15

Epic TR Required 36

Racial TR Required 30



Minimum TR Required before U35 with no Epic TR - 42

By combining Heroic and Iconic lives you can save yourself 15 Heroic TR already

Minimum TR Required After U35 with no Epic TR - 72 - Boosts SSG income which if you want to support your game is a good thing

Minimum TR Required for Double Dip Lives as you want it - 45 - Does nothing for SSG income.


Surely part of the reason for Racial TR and Reaper will give people that have Triples already done a reason to TR again. SSG income


You are basically asking for level one Iconic lives that run to 20 and TR back to 1 for a meager 3.8 mil xp I find that personally laughable at best. One good 3 day weekend run per life.

You would get to double dip on the +2 to all stats basically ( only 2 more races needed for this ) and 10 skills +2 that you get from Heroic and Racial Past lives in one pass with 42 lives versus 72 lives

There isn't a whole lot of SSG income added if people start quitting. Quite honestly, I'm starting to consider looking into some other games that actually reward players for time investment instead of continually hyperinflating numbers with no reason behind the changes.

I don't get people's lack of separation of Racial TR as a system and Racial TR paired with Heroic TRs. This change would have no affect on anyones Triple Completionist.

If you really think that a heroic PL taking 3.8m xp with the highest end xp quests (Such as Shadow Crypt) giving 40k xp is less than half the time investment of 8.25m xp in epics (2x EN daily grinds for 2m xp in an hour and a half)... I don't even know how to finish that silly of a statement.

Sure, a new player or new alt gets to both completionist and full racial PLs much quicker. It has no affect on triple completionists. The reason, and effect, of this change would be making it more feasible for a new player or new alt to have a chance at "catching up" a little on past lives. If there's one thing more disheartening than joining the game as a new player and going "What? I'm expected to pour in 20+ hours per reincarnation even if I become an extreme speed demon and pay for xp potions, and I have to do this over 100 times?", it's starting a new character as an old player and seeing the same thing.

[SuperNiCd]

If there's one thing more disheartening than joining the game as a new player and going "What? I'm expected to pour in 20+ hours per reincarnation even if I become an extreme speed demon and pay for xp potions, and I have to do this over 100 times?", it's starting a new character as an old player and seeing the same thing.

Completely agree, and I have fallen into the trap of thinking like that. My advice to a new player or any player would be think about it like this:

Heroic TR Required 0
Iconic TR Required 0
Epic TR Required 0
Racial TR Required 0

Just enjoy playing the game and when you hit 20 or 30 if you want to reincarnate, do it. Then enjoy the next life. You can build a pretty good strong first life character, or 2nd life, or 3rd life. You have probably reached overkill somewhere before the 35th one.

Getting into a rat race to me just makes it not fun. It becomes more like data entry at some point than playing a game. And if you finally reach your goal of being a quadruple-triple or whatever, your reward is that the devs basically struggle to make any content that can challenge you. I mean, other than just creating more difficulty settings where things hit like trucks and have a zillion HP, and they nerf some of the stuff you just spent 50,000 mind-numbing hours earning.

I'm sure there are power gamers that will attain the new gold standard. More power to them if that's what they want to do. But to me it sounds like a bore.

[Mglaxix]

There isn't a whole lot of SSG income added if people start quitting. Quite honestly, I'm starting to consider looking into some other games that actually reward players for time investment instead of continually hyperinflating numbers with no reason behind the changes.

post me a link to that game

playing this game is for enjoyment not past lives none of those are required to enjoy the game Zero Past lives required to enjoy playing DDO

I actually like the new racial TR since it is a slower incremental system to improve your toon

I don't get people's lack of separation of Racial TR as a system and Racial TR paired with Heroic TRs. This change would have no affect on anyones Triple Completionist.

If you really think that a heroic PL taking 3.8m xp with the highest end xp quests (Such as Shadow Crypt) giving 40k xp is less than half the time investment of 8.25m xp in epics (2x EN daily grinds for 2m xp in an hour and a half)... I don't even know how to finish that silly of a statement.

Epic xp is easier than Heroic xp I was running to level 30 in 2 days with 20% pots. Of course I did run all EE BB first time bonus xp since i saved all my epic quests for speed leveling. Daily grinding is for leveling up your Epic Destiny's easily nothing more nothing less.

Sure, a new player or new alt gets to both completionist and full racial PLs much quicker. It has no affect on triple completionists. The reason, and effect, of this change would be making it more feasible for a new player or new alt to have a chance at "catching up" a little on past lives. If there's one thing more disheartening than joining the game as a new player and going "What? I'm expected to pour in 20+ hours per reincarnation even if I become an extreme speed demon and pay for xp potions, and I have to do this over 100 times?", it's starting a new character as an old player and seeing the same thing.

New players don't need to catch up they need to learn and be willing to learn to play content to their own individual strengths. I don't care who joins my LFM first life or 100th life ask if you don't know lead if you do. I don't know all the content equally nor do I try to. I play to my strengths and continue to try to reduce my weaknesses even after running off nearly 100 lives myself across my toons. I myself join plenty of LFM's to learn content and improve my play.

Why does anyone need past lives the gear is more than adequate to enable anyone with some keyboard skill to compete and complete ( not dominate ) any and all content. I have yet to see an LFM posted Completionist only all past lives matter... heck I can't remember the last time I saw ( Be in your best destiny posted on an LFM ). Do i notice a difference in my alts you bet I do it makes me a better player on my main by playing on weaker toons. Alts are just that Alts. I run Epic Elite and Legendary Hard on them just fine the difference is I know when to step down to Epic Hard and Legendary Normal when I need to. Does that make me a lesser player I should think not it just makes sense.

Max Tr's required to obtain all Heroic Iconic Racial Epic past lives is 73 not 100 running lives off efficiently. ( Add in two more races for +2 for all stats that jumps to 79 lives ) Running one life per month means in 6 years anyone could farther along than my main is in 5 years.

From you signature I see you already invested the time and resources needed for a Triple heroic and iconic.

I have a triple as well completed in 18 months with 12 Epic past lives when xp cap was 4.3 mil except maybe 5 lives when cap was dropped. 40 Lives in 18 months that's what and average of 2 lives per month including 12 Etr's in that time. ( Not everyone is capable of that I certainly will never run off a triple again in that amount of time but that was the challenge ) I certainly don't play that way anymore and I enjoy working towards new goals now.

[SerPounce]

Completely agree, and I have fallen into the trap of thinking like that. My advice to a new player or any player would be think about it like this:

Heroic TR Required 0
Iconic TR Required 0
Epic TR Required 0
Racial TR Required 0

I have a total of 4 Heroic PLs and 3 epic PLs, and I completely agree with this. I'm not worried about "catching up" particularly regarding PLs. I definitely don't feel "required" to have some number of PLs. I play the game, I have fun, occasionally I get a little bonus and start the toon over. I'll join groups with uber completionists running hard content and do just fine. Yeah, I'm not the most badass toon in a good elite group, but I can hang just fine.

I think a lot of new/casual players feel about the same. No one is getting excluded from groups because you don't have 30+ PLs. If you know how to play, know the quests, and build your toons properly you can do any quest on any difficulty (well, most anyway, I'm not doing any reaper 10 stuff).

If anything it's lack of access to certain convince gear (*cough* quiver of alacrity *cough*) that bugs me a LOT more than not having PL bonuses.

[RobbinB]

From a business stand point, this is exactly what SSG needs to accomplish. A reason for someone to spend and additional "X" number of hours playing the game. When people play the game...there is the potential they will spend money on the game.

If they allow Heroic and Racial TR to be concurrent...then they have defeated the whole monetary purpose for creating the new system to begin with.

Except that some people like myself who already play predominantly at cap (and epic past life cycle) and don't really go after heroic reincarnations will be equally disgusted by racial reincarnations if they are separate. Combine them together (my vote) and you might just get me to do a few 1 to 20's....maybe.

I'm so disgusted by the hamster wheel of the original option that I can honestly say it won't get me to play more and perhaps will even get me to play less or even stop playing (and therefore paying) completely.

[QuantumFX]

I like “as it’s own thing”. With the current Lamma-land implementation, I don’t feel like I got cheated out of opportunities to rack up racial PLs. And, I wouldn’t worry about the mythical “new players”, between this and reaper 1, they’ll have an easier time catching up with vets due to first time on this difficulty bonuses.

The only thing I wish they would have done is allowed us to trade our current past lives for others. I like playing a character from levels 1-30, so I would gladly trade some of my mains characters epic and class PLs for some racials so I would have incentive to run levels 20-30 again.

[Full_Bleed]

From a business stand point, this is exactly what SSG needs to accomplish. A reason for someone to spend and additional "X" number of hours playing the game. When people play the game...there is the potential they will spend money on the game.

If they allow Heroic and Racial TR to be concurrent...then they have defeated the whole monetary purpose for creating the new system to begin with.

Just the OPPOSITE. Given the way the system is right now, there is a HUGE group of people that will never participate in it at all because they're never going to have a single completionist, let alone a triple everything with nothing better to do that chase racial past lives.

In fact, even if you *could* get Racial/Heroic PL's concurrently doesn't mean you wouldn't still need the True Heart of Blood to do it. SSG would still have a consumable to sell... and all the triples and completionists out there would still be driven to do something (and *they're* not you target to buy hearts anyway).

Further, it would *still* drive the purchase of Premium Races, etc (something else most people who are already completionists and tripples already have all of).

Bottom line: The system will drive profits from those that can participate in it (i.e. Hearts and Races). And, right now, I know 6 players that can't/won't because they aren't going to put in the time (20 levels) to get +1 on a skill when they have far better things to spend that time investment on in the game. That's races they won't buy and hearts they won't buy. Leave them out of the system and SSG makes nothing from them.

And that's BAD business.

[sephiroth1084]

As a player who played for a long time, did some TRs, then looked at Completionist, shook his head, and took a 4 year break from DDO, I would like to see them combined. Personally, my intent was to do 3-6 heroic PLs on the characters I play. While doing those, I will epic reincarnate one character at cap at a time, so I can have someone leveling heroics, someone leveling epics, and a couple characters farming gear at cap. I would love Completionist, sure, but I simply don't have the patience to grind out that many heroic lives (especially on off-classes), nor the dedication to blitz XP/min the whole time 1-20.

Racial reincarnation got me excited, and then disappointed when I saw that they wouldn't be linked like Iconics are. I already feel like more heroic reincarnation is a waste: 3.8 million XP for +1 damage? No thanks. If I had the money, I would LR 20 my monk to a fighter, then TR. Leveling a whole life for +1 to a single skill is worthless. The +1 to a stat is nice, but we're talking 7.6 million XP for that. The racial AP is super-exciting, since I typically spend very little in my racial trees, but it's 11.4 million XP/point. If I'm getting heroic PLs at the same time, I would probably extend the number of reincarnations I'm doing by a few lives, but I can't see myself doing racial reincarnations at all. Maybe if I get bored enough at cap, but more likely to just put DDO down again for a few years.

Personally, I would prefer an option to combine them. Maybe you can reincarnate separately at level 20, but have to be level 30 to do both? Or it requires an extra item (more grinding for ingredients) to do them combined. I don't know, but as it stands now, I'm probably never going to do a racial reincarnation.