Racial Past Life Opinion Poll

[Blastyswa]

There's a bunch of reasons in each choice for this poll, but to keep the data from getting super spread out I'm only doing three options. If you want to also post your reasoning for your vote below, that's totally fine. Personally I'm voting for Heroic Past Lives and Racial Past Lives to be bonded, because as a triple completionist I care more about reducing the hamster wheel for alts and new players than the sense of not getting benefit from past lives I did.

[Seikojin]

I am perfectly fine with another life grind. Triple completionist is a choice, not a requirement, so any efforts there are cosmetic and prideful more than functional to the game, to me. Do I wish a system was in place to reward all that effort for triple complete? Yeah. But that hasn't happened.

[Avantasian]

A question to those who votes no: Do you also wish that iconic reincarnation was changed so that you do not get a class past life at the same time as an iconic past life?

[noinfo]

I voted on their own but does not fully cover how I feel about this (does contain a rant)

From the main u35 thread


At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I don't want to play heroics, this may change at some point but I am far far far removed from ever caring about it. I am sure there are many like me.

Next will come the reply's that its a choice to not do it. Well that is a false choice for most as many want to have at least their primary the very best it can be so will suffer through it or burn out and quit.

This will do nothing for the 1-20 game except get some old content replayed by myself soloing or with boxes or guildies.

How many times do you have to ignore the portion of the playerbase with regard to some sort of progression at end game? You did it with reaper by providing more incentive to TR for maximum reaper benefit (this is also not helping promote the lower levels because those who are trying to max their toons have no time for pugs)

Here are some suggestions though the hope of even having them read or considered is fading as support for the area of the game I enjoy fades.

1. Racial Pastlives 1-20 remain as suggested, if you like the 1-20 game this is for you.
2. Epic Racial Incarnation 20-30 based on your current race only you can reincarnate back to 20 to gain the bonus, you want a benefit from another race? Racial Reincarnate to the new race and repeat.
3. Racial Paragon, at level 30 you can gain xp toward racial paragon. As I understand it now you can gain 1 racial ap every 3 lives of a race until you work all the way through 10 races (30 lives with extra bonuses), for those progressing racial paragon they gain 1 racial ap for every x number of xp (24 million maybe? number to be decided). While these stack with the other racial ap they are still capped at 10 if this is the intention.

For me this would allow a combination that would be more palitable at least for my main.

I know that 2 int points from drow and gnome would be of great benefit so I would progress as follows:

1 change to gnome (yuck)
2 Go to 30 x2 going back to 20 then Racial to drow (this has allowed me to get the 3 life effect but remain primarily in epic content)
3. Repeat for drow
4. Consider another race for an extra con point or going back to morninglord
5. Continue to progress paragon xp at cap.

This gives greater flexibility and caters across your client base

(Reaper xp bonus at cap is another issue but needs to be considered as well, there have been many good suggestions)

[Dalsheel]

With Heroic past lives. Newbies need a way to catch up to vets a little bit.

[odheon]

With Heroic past lives. Newbies need a way to catch up to vets a little bit.

exactly

[Qhualor]

it should be a double dip just like Iconics. if the game remembers you were a fighter in your past life than it should remember you were a dwarf too. racial past lives was created, not only because some players asked for it, but to add another grind to the game that even completionists would have a reason to TR. its also no surprise with Reaper xp more popular to earn in heroics right before racial past lives comes out.

my reasoning has nothing to do with new players "catching up".

[Fenix93]

then ... I see it this way, as well as a functional point of view whether to do it together with the class TR same as if you were playing an iconic, and the way aquisisci bonuses, now do not know if you noticed . but for the first screw that gets co a particular breed you will have only the 1st bonus, this means that if you want to do even the 2nd bonus of a race...you must do other 3 lives with the same, for example volio the point of dexterity with both racial elven that the Halfling to do that I have it's like playing 6 times each race for a total of 12 life just doing Halfling and elf ... think how many lives s idevono do to get the full bonus of every race think for a moment how many lives you have to make in total ... I tell you 60 life total!seriously you want to make life 60 for 10 points to spend in racial tree?I would prefer something like the epic tr a Sceta between 3 different bonus for each race, which detaches several times for each past life completed the race, because it is made in this way right now obtaining bonuses and as realy pain! seriously you really want to leave that they are so passive bonus?

[BigErkyKid]

Look at it from a detached perspective.The effect of allowing for dual PLs obviously depends on the player. Strictly in terms of the resulting length of the grind:

Separate systems (no dual PL) is, for everyone who is not a triple completionist, equivalent to extending the upper limit of the grind (maximum of XP that can still grand power).

Look at the current design for racial PLs, it is very heavily backloaded. The first PL is mostly rubbish, and having them all grants a lot of flexibility (10 AP is truly huge). This is even more backloaded than completionist.

What this tells me is that this is MEANT to be a big grind, so it is extremely unlikely that they go with dual PLs; it would completely defeat the design goal.

This (acquiring XP) IS the game guys. The loot game in DDO is very short lived in comparison, mostly because content releases are scarce and very limited. Sadly, development in DDO seems to be very resource constrained. What can we give them that is cheap and provides a lot of "gameplay hours". Obviously XP based grinds are the cheapest option, but even things like introducing new races is relatively cheap. Seriously, a couple animations, an enhancement tree and some skins, and this is the "big" novelty of an update.

[SuperNiCd]

I voted for the double dip.

I think it would encourage some more interesting builds vs. everybody going with the best meta for that race to knock out their 3 for that one. Which in turn might make for some interesting groups where people aren't at max power. Because as designed right now:

Class is irrelevant when your goal is a Racial Reincarnation.

And really, doesn't the game have enough heroic "grind well past the point where it remotely resembles fun and then keep going some more" systems anyway?

[Zeleron]

A question to those who votes no: Do you also wish that iconic reincarnation was changed so that you do not get a class past life at the same time as an iconic past life?

All xp used is from a third life and beyond.
1-20: 3.8 mill xp.
15-30 9.95 mill xp.
You also don't get an epic past life feat for doing the iconic tr'ing. Iconics have to earn vastly more xp 1.7 mill heroic and 8.25 mill epic xp then a regular 1-20 third life toon.

As for the poll I said: No. Why? Because apparently "other" is never an option anymore that allows others to give an opinion in a poll that goes against the original choices. For the lives to combine of heroic and racial I'd think players would have to do a give and take situation. Instead of being able to tr right away for a racial/class past life at 20 say go to level 28. This adding an additional 6.2 mill xp making the total 10 mill. Putting it at just about the same xp an iconic has to do.

As for new players argument: this is just you using another probable person to attempt to get something easier for your self and gives no logical reason to actually taking the steps in place. I'm more positive a new player would be more curious about what a TR is instead of the possible benefits they could've gotten from it. To them this mechanic is just something to play the game longer and enjoy it more while adding additional sources of character customization they do not know about.

My complaint about the racial reincarnation would better fit like this: It is going to make it less appealing for me to create a new toon, instead of just playing the one I already have and put years of work into. Of course I could just buy a bunch of otto's boxes to buy all the lives for minimal work.

[Cantor]

I say with. It would be nice to not extend the total grind and gap between players.

The only arguments I see for it being separate are: 1. extend the grind 2. so vets won't feel slighted by what they have already done.

1. If that's the goal then so be it. Even if awarded together this is done for vets. If not, no one else is going to do it anyway.

2. I have a triple heroic completionist, I wouldn't feel slighted. I have tr'd since hitting triple, this would give a reward for doing that anyway. Some will feel slighted I'm sure, but things change in an mmo. When epic reincarnation was added people complained about not getting pasts for TR's they'd already done at cap, this is same thing. It's a new system; nothing is being taken from you, only added.

Awarding both together means same number of live to max, but new characters move faster vet's till have a head start.

[SerPounce]

I voted for the double dip.

I think it would encourage some more interesting builds vs. everybody going with the best meta for that race to knock out their 3 for that one. Which in turn might make for some interesting groups where people aren't at max power.

I voted no (mostly I don't want to hear the moaning about not getting retroactive PLs), but I do think this is the most compelling reason to link them. And thinking that it will be the best meta "for that race" is pretty optimistic. More likely people will pick the exact same build (probably warlock, but there's some other solid heroic stompers) and use it 30 times. Heroic PLs remain fun because it forces you to try at least somewhat different builds. Epic PLs can be a drag, but at least you have the expanded level range of people to group with.

It would be nice if there was some more incentive to try different stuff.

Avantasian
A question to those who votes no: Do you also wish that iconic reincarnation was changed so that you do not get a class past life at the same time as an iconic past life?

Well it shouldn't be "changed." That would be a ridiculous bit of pulling the ladder up. Maybe it should have been that way to begin with, but iconics are weird because it's 15-30, which seems a bit more of a grind than 1-20 (especially now with reaper 1 bonuses).

[Loromir]

I voted "As their own thing".


I look at it like this...suppose SSG created this fabulous new piece of gear...something everyone would want. Wouldn't it seem logical they create some new mechanism to obtain it?

SSG has created a way to obtain +1 to many skills, +1 to all stats and +2 to some stats, Additional AP's to spend in the racial trees. Why would they let you get that by just continuing to do what you are already doing.

Lets face it, most people are going to continue to heroic TR anyway...regardless of what happens in U35. So to boil it down, if they allow Racial TR and Class TR take place simultaneously, then they would be basically be giving away those extra for free. Then let's hear the whining about power creep. At least now, you have to do something extra to gain those past lives.

I have no problem with they way they have implemented this.

[Cantor]

then ... I see it this way, as well as a functional point of view whether to do it together with the class TR same as if you were playing an iconic, and the way aquisisci bonuses, now do not know if you noticed . but for the first screw that gets co a particular breed you will have only the 1st bonus, this means that if you want to do even the 2nd bonus of a race...you must do other 3 lives with the same, for example volio the point of dexterity with both racial elven that the Halfling to do that I have it's like playing 6 times each race for a total of 12 life just doing Halfling and elf ... think how many lives s idevono do to get the full bonus of every race think for a moment how many lives you have to make in total ... I tell you 60 life total!seriously you want to make life 60 for 10 points to spend in racial tree?I would prefer something like the epic tr a Sceta between 3 different bonus for each race, which detaches several times for each past life completed the race, because it is made in this way right now obtaining bonuses and as realy pain! seriously you really want to leave that they are so passive bonus?

Not sure what you are saying here as 6 lives on one race. 3 lives on one race will award skill, stat, AP.

[odheon]

with past heroic lives
- Resolve TR cache problem
- New players will want to do completionist
- Anyone who not be a completionist can change their mind
- Triple completionist will do 30x racial Reincarnation

[MistaMagic]

I voted on their own but does not fully cover how I feel about this (does contain a rant)

From the main u35 thread


At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I don't want to play heroics, this may change at some point but I am far far far removed from ever caring about it. I am sure there are many like me.

Next will come the reply's that its a choice to not do it. Well that is a false choice for most as many want to have at least their primary the very best it can be so will suffer through it or burn out and quit.

This will do nothing for the 1-20 game except get some old content replayed by myself soloing or with boxes or guildies.

How many times do you have to ignore the portion of the playerbase with regard to some sort of progression at end game? You did it with reaper by providing more incentive to TR for maximum reaper benefit (this is also not helping promote the lower levels because those who are trying to max their toons have no time for pugs)

Here are some suggestions though the hope of even having them read or considered is fading as support for the area of the game I enjoy fades.

1. Racial Pastlives 1-20 remain as suggested, if you like the 1-20 game this is for you.
2. Epic Racial Incarnation 20-30 based on your current race only you can reincarnate back to 20 to gain the bonus, you want a benefit from another race? Racial Reincarnate to the new race and repeat.
3. Racial Paragon, at level 30 you can gain xp toward racial paragon. As I understand it now you can gain 1 racial ap every 3 lives of a race until you work all the way through 10 races (30 lives with extra bonuses), for those progressing racial paragon they gain 1 racial ap for every x number of xp (24 million maybe? number to be decided). While these stack with the other racial ap they are still capped at 10 if this is the intention.

For me this would allow a combination that would be more palitable at least for my main.

I know that 2 int points from drow and gnome would be of great benefit so I would progress as follows:

1 change to gnome (yuck)
2 Go to 30 x2 going back to 20 then Racial to drow (this has allowed me to get the 3 life effect but remain primarily in epic content)
3. Repeat for drow
4. Consider another race for an extra con point or going back to morninglord
5. Continue to progress paragon xp at cap.

This gives greater flexibility and caters across your client base

(Reaper xp bonus at cap is another issue but needs to be considered as well, there have been many good suggestions)

I was under the impression that for the 1st 2 past lives they were only for the race you tr'd from. The 3rd one for the point is somehow bankable and can be used in any Race tree (Including Iconics). So where do you get the +2 int points fro drow and gnome unless you mean point for each?.
Obviously you know ozz and I will be getting the points for the SunElf tree so I have more to spend in archmage etc. (already worked out what I will spend them on)

[Cantor]

I was under the impression that for the 1st 2 past lives they were only for the race you tr'd from. The 3rd one for the point is somehow bankable and can be used in any Race tree (Including Iconics). So where do you get the +2 int points fro drow and gnome unless you mean point for each?.
Obviously you know ozz and I will be getting the points for the SunElf tree so I have more to spend in archmage etc. (already worked out what I will spend them on)

They mean 1 int from each. All the past lives will apply, it's not linked to current race in any way other than where you can spend your AP.

[MistaMagic]

I voted with heroic past lives as that's the way that Iconics get it

[Zeleron]

I voted with heroic past lives as that's the way that Iconics get it

Based off that argument why don't iconics get epic past life feat as well? They get the full epic xp.