opinion about new bank system

[Mellkor]

I have heard others talk about this, and I like the idea: How about adopting the auction interface for the bank? It already allows for sorting in just about anyway you like. AND the code for it already exists!

[Alistina]

It is likely we will be pulling the new character bank from Update 35, and will not bring out an updated UI with additional bank space until we resolve at least some of the community's concerns over it.

Thank you!! Have to say, like everyone else mentioned, I have my own personal way of organising things in the inventory and character bank. This I do exactly the same way across all toons, server and accounts. I wouldn't know what to do with the game if this was taken away. The TR cache and shared bank is horrible, and I can never find the item/s I need, till some day at a later point it shows up, long after its needed.

Till the day you can find a better solution to introducing sales of extra personal storage space, your current policy of having raid items btc and rest everything bta works just fine for me.

[Redgob]

We bugged Coco during the dev session yesterday on Lama with our dislike of the shared bank interface and our wants for all 3 bank interfaces to be closer to the character inventory (and with more sorting options). He responded that the devs have heard our problems with the shared bank interface and are going back to the drawing board, but they are somewhat hamstrung as there's a large compute overhead with all the options our character inventory gives if it also applied to the banks. Not sure if that's client/server communication bottleneck or server hashing algorithms/etc. Plus they're probably stuck with a bunch of code layers that try to make bank operations atomic (non-dupable).

Sigh. I can imagine that there's the problem of "parsing" the item data to get their ml, type etc. before sorting, but it's definitely solvable except requires some coding. Instead of recalculating it every time the user asks for something, the game probably could store some extra data in the database apart from their id and amount, calculated at the moment you put something in the bank, like ML and type. And then use that extra data instead of recalculating it every time. Not sure how many parameters are needed but probably just the 2... minimum level and type (armor, jewelry, potion etc.) would be enough for most people. Heck personally I wouldn't care about sorting as long as I could use some special word in search to just get certain items... like :ml10: and the server would just give me ml10 items or something similar. Anything that would allow quick searching not by name. Same for TR cache.

Or the server should just send the list of all the items in the bank to the client and allow all sorting/searching to be done on the client side. Validity/duping checks or whatever could be done on server side only when the user actually tries to move an item from/to bank.

[SerPounce]

I have heard others talk about this, and I like the idea: How about adopting the auction interface for the bank? It already allows for sorting in just about anyway you like. AND the code for it already exists!

It's ugly, but it's better than the shared bank, that's for sure.

I'd really like to keep the option of organizing squares yourself.

[Pyed-Pyper]

The shared bank really only has one advantage for the player. It is easy to mouse-over an item for a detailed description. This is less true for the crafting shared bank.

A bank should store items for easy location and retrieval. The shared bank interface isn't that.

Filters (check boxes and ranges) for slot (headgear, gloves etc), ML, AML, consumables, bound, unbound, named, crafted, blank, random generated are just a few of the categories that would need to be included in a single list like the current shared bank. Such a list would need a temporary hide function as well (check a box to hide until bank is closed).

The character second inventory tab has some nice sort and search features but I often personally have a hard time using it. The window is small and the categories are sometimes poorly grouped, (e.g. Harper Pin is listed as potion).

The auction house interface has been suggested a number of times as an example of what should be used. It isn't perfect but orders of magnitude better that what is currently available with the shared bank. It also represents the minimum level of functionality that a shared bank style storage system would need if implemented as character storage.

ADDITIONALLY:

Something that hasn't been mentioned is functionality in civil areas vs quests. I suggest other features would be needed by players, such as an 'equipment notepad' so to speak, where items anticipated to be used in a quest could be dragged/dropped for easy access. I am thinking of a separate button that opens an inventory tab like is currently used for character and personal bank storage, but perhaps resizable and/or with/without a grid. For example, if I am planning on running Dreams of Insanity, I might want to pull construct bane ammo from crafting storage and restoration scrolls from shared storage and put them in that 'hot tab' along with cure potions and my eternal FoM pot. Not everything can or should be hot-bar'd, and the current inventory tabs can be used to sort gear so that it easy to find in a timely manner. Moving to a single list, regardless of filters, would represent a significant loss of functionality, (unless you include some user-defined filters, and a 'show only in quest' filter, and probably a few others).

[Theolin]

The best bank would be a single window with columns for:

Icon (as current, with quantity on stackables)
Item Name (as current)
ML
Item Type (Weapon, Shield, Armor, Bracers, Gloves, ..., Collectible, Scroll, Ingredient, Gem, Potion, Cookie)
Binding (BTA, BTC, Unbound)

You should be able to sort by any column. You should be able to search for an item by name, Item Type, or ML.

Do that and you have a great storage system.

going to 3rd... 4th.... Xth this

[HastyPudding]

It is likely we will be pulling the new character bank from Update 35, and will not bring out an updated UI with additional bank space until we resolve at least some of the community's concerns over it.

Excellent idea. Bigger bank is nice, disorganized bank is not.

[Seikojin]

A solution to the sorting: Allow the search to use item type context. Necklace, Belt, Armor. This way you are emulating the sorting without needing to make a whole new feature. You are just taking one existing function and expanding it to include more than just names.

I know adding a column to any databases on the server side would be immense. So I feel the pain there if it is needed to do the above. However doing this here, would allow it to be reused in auction, in shared, and eventually in TR when that gets transitioned to the modern storage system.

The big reason for these new storage systems is indeed load on compute. Having to determine array size, pull the values, place them in the previously stored order, validate ids, then run all the calls for icons, etc. It takes a ton of time. Whereas a non-gridded list is very easy to populate and call. Order doesn't have to matter necessarily (but we make it matter). However an ordered list is far easier to store, access, and parse than a gridded array. And with a search function and pagination, it can expand to handle far more capacity than the grid system could hope and dream to.

Getting the list bank now at least would cut the burden the grid system has now.

[sirgog]

Disagree - one word...
Champions
Worst thing to have ever hit DDO
Hate them in every incarnation.
Check box upon quest entry would have solved this

And don't say - just run normal...quest level was balanced - champions unbalance that

If you do not enjoy facing champions, play on one of the two difficulty settings designed for you.

95% of DDO content offers both Normal and Casual as options, and everything offers Normal.

[Wizza]

It is likely we will be pulling the new character bank from Update 35, and will not bring out an updated UI with additional bank space until we resolve at least some of the community's concerns over it.

This function was already said that was not coming in U35, before we even got to test it.

Miscellaneous

• The Character Bank tab has been updated to match the Shared Account bank UI. (Note: This is very likely NOT going live until after U35.)

It's not like you guys decided to pull it from U35 after the feedback, as it sounds from your post.

[Ryiah]

If you do not enjoy facing champions, play on one of the two difficulty settings designed for you.

Hating champions is not the same as wanting a "casual" experience though.

[Fnordian]

The big reason for these new storage systems is indeed load on compute. Having to determine array size, pull the values, place them in the previously stored order, validate ids, then run all the calls for icons, etc. It takes a ton of time. Whereas a non-gridded list is very easy to populate and call. Order doesn't have to matter necessarily (but we make it matter). However an ordered list is far easier to store, access, and parse than a gridded array. And with a search function and pagination, it can expand to handle far more capacity than the grid system could hope and dream to.

I assume the issue is that this is all computed server-side, and while individually not a huge computing load, cumulatively it becomes one. But surely the burden for sorting could be shifted to the client instead (without any loss of security)--the order shouldn't matter to the server as long as it can verify that an item clicked or moved does in fact exist in the character's bank.

The downside is of course that doing a complete reinstall or using a different computer would result in a differently sorted inventory (or lose all sorting) but anyone who cares enough could probably back up sort files if this information was made readily available. Or maybe the sorted order could be stored server-side and simply having the client handle the actual processing would be sufficient to alleviate the burden.

[Tscheuss]

I don't know why they don't organize it like LotRO bank space. Personal and shared both can search, and there are several tabs into which you can categorize your items plus a tab for All. Each category can be custom labeled.

[Marupal]

It is likely we will be pulling the new character bank from Update 35, and will not bring out an updated UI with additional bank space until we resolve at least some of the community's concerns over it.

I did a TR on lamannia and the items in my character bank remained in the character bank instead of getting put into the TR cache. Is that WAI? If so, whoever is working on this deserves a solid "You rock!" and a thanks.

Do we really have to have either a list like the shared bank OR the current tabbed panel UI for the character bank? Is it possible to do both the same as our backpack inventory? It is definitely appreciated having the ability to switch between the different views.

putting ordering options will be nice... sort by level, type - jewelry, armor, weapon and so on... check box that only shows available to equip. That'll be reasonable enough.

Having "sort by" options like that would be excellent.

I don't know why they don't organize it like LotRO bank space. Personal and shared both can search, and there are several tabs into which you can categorize your items plus a tab for All. Each category can be custom labeled.

Haven't played LOTRO yet but that sounds like an excellent direction for an updated UI.

[dunklezhan]

Extremely increased slots of bank are so nice, but It came with a critical problem. It's bad to arrange.

As the game getting old, It has been giving us a bunch of items that we can hardly remember what they were, where they were. but We were simply able to identify what they're, arrange where they're. tab 1 for the items I use currently, tab 2 for consumable items, tab 3 for the item I'll use after TR, tab 4 for the item I want to just keep, tab 5 for the item I can use later. It was simple.

But the problem came now. 100 items as not arranged in bank slot? Oh, How can people arrange the items. consumable, jewelry, armor, weapon, low-level and high-level things... into just one tab? Seriously, I'm not sure people will be really happy with that new bank system. having many slots is nice, but You wasted convenience away. That's why I don't like shared slots very well.

Putting a search bar isn't best way. I see that thing like "I think people will be enough as putting a search bar. They can feel convenient enough from this." meh. some may, but not me. It works only when you know the name.

I hope you can find better convenience for better arrangement as people feel less annoy.

You are not a native english speaker. I can tell. And this post was better and more coherent than a very large proportion of the supposedly native speakers.

Well done, and thanks for taking the time. +1

[dunklezhan]

I don't know why they don't organize it like LotRO bank space. Personal and shared both can search, and there are several tabs into which you can categorize your items plus a tab for All. Each category can be custom labeled.

Same reason we can't have their fabulous highly customisable UI.

I mean, I don't know that reason, but I'm guessing it comes to 'LOTRO was written a year later. It's just better'.

[Stoner81]

It is likely we will be pulling the new character bank from Update 35, and will not bring out an updated UI with additional bank space until we resolve at least some of the community's concerns over it.

Monster heart felt thank you Cordo, and to the rest of the team, for listening to us on this topic!

We are all for more storage but that storage needs to be usable in a way akin to how it is now (or at least similar), being able to split up tabs for different things makes like so much easier it's not even funny If it means waiting months for a better system then I should imagine everybody would be willing to wait for it without question, take the amount of time needed to do it right the first time. We have waited this long so what's another 12 months or whatever I would rather wait the extra time and know that the system coming would be great!

Stoner81.

[Sunnie]

The bank needs to be one of two things: Sortable or easily searchable.

Right now the character bank is sortable, the shared banks and TR cache are neither. Yes, yes, the shared banks have that little field where you can search, but only for part of the items name. As others have pointed out, if we can't sort things the least that'll be needed is a filter function for item type (including inventory slot they go in) and ML in addition to the search for name we have now. That's the bare minimum, anything less is simply not acceptable. Better would be to be able to display items for a range of MLs. Add the option to filter for either named or randgen/crafted and we're getting somewhere. If you give us the option to filter for items with specific effects (e.g. "only items with sheltering" or "items with a yellow slot") you'll be getting into the territory where the new system is better than the current one where we place items on a grid.

[Xanthrawl]

It is likely we will be pulling the new character bank from Update 35, and will not bring out an updated UI with additional bank space until we resolve at least some of the community's concerns over it.

On a possibly related note, I have already purchased both personal character bank expansions on my main from the DDO Store. For a couple of weeks now, they are able to be purchased again on this character. I have not pulled the trigger, as they are labeled 1 and 2 which I have already purchased. My concern is that it won't do anything, but take my points. I'd really rather not go through the hoops of contacting Customer Service if this were to happen, but I'd LOVE more BtC storage. (Like, you don't even know how much. This will be the 2nd best thing to ever happen to DDO, the first being TRing.)

While I am champing at the bit to have more BtC storage space, I don't want to throw away 500+TP to find out whether it works or is a bug. I also share concerns about the functionality of the new bank UI.

It may not be worth investigating if you all are close to releasing the new bank UI. If it is still several updates out, you may want to look into whether this is a bug and what may be causing it.

[EllisDee37]

I assume the issue is that this is all computed server-side, and while individually not a huge computing load, cumulatively it becomes one.

Not really. Otherwise the auction house wouldn't have sorting.

In terms of computing power, sorting a list of the size of a character bank is probably a similar amount of computing power as determining one single attack during a fight. (Physics check: Are you close enough to hit? Roll to hit. Did they dodge? Did you graze? Did you crit? Do they have PRR? Did weapon effects proc? Offhand proc? Glancing blow proc? Doublestrike proc? Enhancements procs? Destiny procs? etc...)