Initial thoughts - Dragonborn

[GoldyGopher]

Thanks to bolo-grubb I was able to log in and create my first dragonborn character.

No Tails, really. How disappointing. The character animation makes it look like the tails were lopped off because they didn't work.

Love the 2 dances.

On a couple of styles of hair for the female dragonborn you can see the human head under the skin. 6-8

The animation for a two weapon fighting on the female Dragonborn has one hand drop from the weapon.

Cosmetics hide the dragonborns hair.

At first glance I like the Enhancements for Dragonborn, we could argue a few points here and there but nothing stood out as extremely underpowered or extremely overpowered.
That's not to say I would have done them differently, rather I am some what satisfied with them

One Suggestion - Change Hard Scales. Have it work with character level - +1 Natural Armor per character level (Max 5) / +1 Natural Armor per Character level (Max 10) / +1 Natural Armor per Character level (Max 20) and I am totally cool with it costing 1/2/4 Enhancement Points.
Reasoning - 6 AC is fairly robust boost in level 1-6 quests but as your character levels up it becomes significantly less of a boost. As a Defender build I am not sure I will end up justifying the 3 enhancement points.

I tried out the breath weapon, nothing to exciting at first glance.

I could not take Harper tree with Dragonborn

[Matsu_Ieyasu]

No Tails, really. How disappointing. The character animation makes it look like the tails were lopped off because they didn't work.

Dragonborn do not have tails - "Dragonborn look very much like dragons standing erect in humanoid form, though they lack wings or tails." Players handbook 5e pg 32
Thinking of Draconians?

However after reading your point about the animation I went back and watched it again and yes you have some disjointed motion. It is really hitchy on my older computer with only a 1 GB video card.

In creating my first couple of Dragonborn I was pleased with the options except the beards. Many looked like preliminary models rather than the finished project and I hope that is the case.

I am not totally sold on the skin coloring options, was hoping to get a solid red, blue, green, black and white at a minimum. The colors were too muted for me.

Not sure if I like Dragon Breath in the Enhancements rather than an autogrant option. I understand the design decisions but not sure I like it that way.

I haven't done a lot of theory crafting yet but the Enhancements don't seem to mesh well with your typical builds. The amount of points spent on the breath attack seem a little high to me, but to be honest it could be because I don't like Breath Attack not being a autogrant. Of course the discussion on Racial reincarnation is another topic that effects this.
IMHO the racial trees are all weak, this one has potential to be more useful than say Dwarf or Elf. To me the issue becomes where do you pull points from you Harper/Defender/Vanguard/Savant/other to us in your racial tree.

[Cordovan]

Some of the animation work is not yet polished for this first Lamannia preview.

[HastyPudding]

Some of the animation work is not yet polished for this first Lamannia preview.

Good to know. I noticed the clipping with the male's idle animation, and the monk unarmed style looks very wonky with index fingers sticking out. It's like he's Elvis doing kung-fu but poking people instead of punching. There's a short delay with the breath animation, as well.

[Wizza]

Dragonborns: a copy-paste of Draconic Incarnation and couple other Enhancements.

That's what their tree looks like.

[GoldyGopher]

Some of the animation work is not yet polished for this first Lamannia preview.

Good To Know.

[snowhitefox]

The dragonborn need more solid colors like blue, black, bright red, and white..

[Steve_Howe]

The dragonborn need more solid colors like blue, black, bright red, and white..

Absolutely.

They don't have to be "BLUE!", "WHITE!", "RED!" or "BLACK!"

Blue-ish is fine. The current Red hue needs to be slightly more pronounced and same with the Black hue. The White-hue appears to be fine.

Make it clear what each character's draconic heritage is but don't make the colors so vivid that they blind us.

[domnslave]

In regards to the racial dragon breath [ with the racial +3 dc and the epic +7 breath dc boost item ] as a pure air sorcerer in draconic with some magister twisting. Mass Hold Person / Glacial Burst + Sense Weakness and 700ish electric spell power....my racial breath weapon was critting for 19k with a 30 second cool down and no limit between shrines. The long cooldown is fine as it gives an oh **** AoE option or if your playstyle is zerg, gather, nuke it helps.

For comparison, my Draconic ED breath weapon in the same setup was critting for 37k. Keep in mind this is level 30, with strictly named loot from the u35 cabinet and the two lvl 28 cabinets. No thunderforged, no LGS, no past lives, no slavers gear etc.



As to the artwork: the heads are ok and nifty, but the bodys, arms, legs, and especially feet (look like scuba slippers).... all need some serious work to not be utterly hideous. I also agree that the skin color's need to be more noticeable based on the heritage. Not just undertones like the warforged but some serious representation of their metallic kin.

[Bolo_Grubb]

I have to say Well done.

I went to Lamannia and TR'd Bolo into a Dragonborn. Used all the same feats minus Epic toughness (Bolo on live is PDK and has an extra feat).

I spent the same amount of enhancement points in the fighter trees on both, leaving 22 points to spend on the racial tree for both.

Then geared the dragonborn up the same as Bolo to compare



The main differences

Dragonborn:

3 more str, all other stats the same.

28 less hitpoints

3 less AC and 3 less Dodge

Slight improvement in saves +2 Fortitude, +2 Will

10% less fortification

7 more PRR, same MRR



Dragonborn:

1 less intimidate



Now if I were TR into a Dragonborn on the live server I might tweak a few things, but for me this shows that the game devs did a good job with balance. Dragonborns can be a good choice (at least for some classes) but are not the new super race.

[Cordovan]

The dragonborn need more solid colors like blue, black, bright red, and white..

We have been discussing this, and may pursue some kind of cosmetic implementation in the future that offers additional colors. Currently, our color selection is similar to the lore on Dragonborn, and is licensor-approved. For further reading, look at page 35 of the 4th edition players handbook:

A typical dragonborn’s scales can be scarlet, gold, rust, ocher, bronze, or brown. Rarely do an individual’s scales match the hue of a chromatic or metallic dragon, and scale color gives no indication of the type of breath weapon a dragonborn uses.

[HastyPudding]

We have been discussing this, and may pursue some kind of cosmetic implementation in the future that offers additional colors. Currently, our color selection is similar to the lore on Dragonborn, and is licensor-approved. For further reading, look at page 35 of the 4th edition players handbook:

A typical dragonborn’s scales can be scarlet, gold, rust, ocher, bronze, or brown. Rarely do an individual’s scales match the hue of a chromatic or metallic dragon, and scale color gives no indication of the type of breath weapon a dragonborn uses.

Good to know.

Also, the winter robe cosmetic clips through the scales on the back of dragonborn's head. I'm guessing helmets and facial cosmetics don't work on dragonborn? It would be awesome to have glowing eyes. One wonders how that works with pale master forms, as they all have glowing eyes, as well.

[Targal]

as for me, I thought Dragonborn would come out as thicker similar to Half-Orc. I just see a lizard, not a dragon-blooded. How disappointing. Here's Neverwinter dragonborn for comparison.

https://pwimages-a.akamaihd.net/arc/...1406218558.jpg
https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/nev...7c965295fc9847

[Cantor]

as for me, I thought Dragonborn would come out as thicker similar to Half-Orc. I just see a lizard, not a dragon-blooded. How disappointing. Here's Neverwinter dragonborn for comparison.

https://pwimages-a.akamaihd.net/arc/...1406218558.jpg
https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/nev...7c965295fc9847

Uggg those look terrible. But I'm not 100% on the way they look either, to me they look like snake people. The heads are too big and look kinda like a snake hood. I'd like a thinner head frame to match the body.

[Fenix93]

We have been discussing this, and may pursue some kind of cosmetic implementation in the future that offers additional colors. Currently, our color selection is similar to the lore on Dragonborn, and is licensor-approved. For further reading, look at page 35 of the 4th edition players handbook:

A typical dragonborn’s scales can be scarlet, gold, rust, ocher, bronze, or brown. Rarely do an individual’s scales match the hue of a chromatic or metallic dragon, and scale color gives no indication of the type of breath weapon a dragonborn uses.

Cordovan is true and you are right if you go to see the images on Google all have that kind of tone you see in the game ... maybe I point to make it customizable ,and various types of head shapes,for not make all dragonborn equal.

then there's another thing I'd like to pin ... body shape ... maybe the male version and a little squat ... a lot of the armor make the chest spike with long arms and legs,I tried the artwork on Google how should look into if corbo the dragonborn, and should be so dis:





I think that maybe the shape of the feet and even a little to review, on these images the heel is low, not raised as in the model of Lammania.

[Vooduspyce]

We have been discussing this, and may pursue some kind of cosmetic implementation in the future that offers additional colors. Currently, our color selection is similar to the lore on Dragonborn, and is licensor-approved. For further reading, look at page 35 of the 4th edition players handbook:

A typical dragonborn’s scales can be scarlet, gold, rust, ocher, bronze, or brown. Rarely do an individual’s scales match the hue of a chromatic or metallic dragon, and scale color gives no indication of the type of breath weapon a dragonborn uses.

"Rarely do an individual’s scales match the hue of a chromatic or metallic dragon"

"Rarely" does not equal never, so why does adding a "rare" option violate license?

Also would like the scarlet option to be more scarlety and they gold option to be more goldy

[Vooduspyce]

Will the females will be given a different dance than the males when it goes live?

[CSQ]

We have been discussing this, and may pursue some kind of cosmetic implementation in the future that offers additional colors. Currently, our color selection is similar to the lore on Dragonborn, and is licensor-approved. For further reading, look at page 35 of the 4th edition players handbook:

A typical dragonborn’s scales can be scarlet, gold, rust, ocher, bronze, or brown. Rarely do an individual’s scales match the hue of a chromatic or metallic dragon, and scale color gives no indication of the type of breath weapon a dragonborn uses.

If we're using 4th edition, dragonborn should be more gender dimorphic, since dragonborn nurse in 4e and implicitly have gender dimorphic features. From Ecology of the Dragonborn, page 3, "During this time, the mother nurses her
offspring." I was pretty surprised when I saw that dragonborn were not heavily dimorphic, given that the example art seems to support this perspective. I mean, it's not a game breaker, and I don't really care, I just had a player in a 5e game I'm in constantly argue with me about it since his character was dragonborn and he just sort of interpreted it how he wanted instead of RAW, which I didn't like since he misled the GMs into thinking it was RAW. I was not expecting the result in EotD, but it's interesting.

http://www.wizards.com/files/365_Eco...Dragonborn.pdf

What I'm trying to say is it was weird seeing a dragonborn female without a shirt, since technically, you know...

[Krelar]

Also would like the scarlet option to be more scarlety and they gold option to be more goldy

This ^.

Give us some bright vibrant versions of the colors you are limited to instead of the washed out dull versions we have now.

[GoldyGopher]

.. to be more goldy

What huh ... oh ... Nevermind