First Life Reaper 10 Challenge

[Wonedream]

This challenge is to PROVE that

A) Alt toons with 1 life put in them are never going to be worth much, and can not keep up with the content of power creep.

B) Alt toons with 1 life, good gear, a solid build, can still be worth playing and polishing to the top, because they can still handle the hardest content the game has to offer.



Take 1 life toons only... beat a raid and a well known challenging reaper 10 quest... slavers or so... one of those "it took us 6 hours, 1000 scrolls, all our best toons, but we did it" quests, not some chumpy easy one.


Get your best losers ready to win!

Oh, and someone's gotta make a video of this attempt or victory. Verification purposes naturally. Don't be that guild that planned this all out, spent hell and time doing it, then forgot to prove it beyond all shadowy doubts by not making a video!

Ill even join if you want, I got plenty of 1 life toons ready to go, you name the server... Im already there with level 20 waiting to make it happen. I will join in the pain and try my best. That is entirely optional.

Also, the results of this challenge can be used in future debates. It will provide objective evidence that it is possible!


Edited to reflect just a challenge and stay focused on that and not something else.

[Wonedream]

Yeap.

Just as I thought.

The silence says it all.

Reluctance. Doubt. Uncertainty.

No one stepping up to announce how they can do it.

It hasnt been but a few hours now, but unless I say nothing I wager this thread would sink into oblivion as no one has the balls to take the challenge.

Why is that?

Because Alt Toons are dead, useless, pointless, and incapable of beating a good reaper 10 quest, even with gear and all!


I bet if I dont say anything this thread will still be quiet by tomorrow, but if I do, some nerk is gonna feel the need to sabotage me saying it, so if I throw that in there it might deny them the pleasure.


And I will add this...


BOK BOK BOK BOK BOK BOK (chicken dance) BOK BOK

[PermaBanned]

This challenge is to PROVE that

A) Alt toons with 1 life put in them are never going to be worth much, and can not keep up with the content of power creep.

B) Alt toons with 1 life, good gear, a solid build, can still be worth playing and polishing to the top, because they can still handle the hardest content the game has to offer

Yeap.

Just as I thought.

The silence says it all.

Why is that?

Because Alt Toons are dead, useless, pointless, and incapable of beating a good reaper 10 quest, even with gear and all!

lmfao! Do you truely not comprehend the rediculousness of your "challenge?"

If a first life character can do the hardest content in the game (the very scenario we had pre-Reaper that led to asking for more challenge), what is there to aspire towards? What would be the benifit, point or even purpose in building beyond that first life?

Not being able to run Reaper 10 skull on a first lifer doesn't mean alts are dead; however a first lifer running Reaper 10 Skull (successfully) would mean that the Reaper implementation was even worse than it is.

What's more: I'd wager that if one person posted a screen shot of meeting your challenge you'd then either dismiss them as being a single outlier case rather than what's achievable for everyone in your opinion, or attempt to discredit them by claiming the used tricks & cheats to achieve it.

[Chai]

Is the OP joining the discussion on equal footing, and making their own videos of both scenarios with the same players, or are they challenging others to do all the work while they demand evidence and declaring victory after less than 5 hours pass?

[Chai]

What's more: I'd wager that if one person posted a screen shot of meeting your challenge you'd then either dismiss them as being a single outlier case rather than what's achievable for everyone in your opinion, or attempt to discredit them by claiming the used tricks & cheats to achieve it.

Yeap. Wouldnt be too hard to amass some first life warlocks, shiradi zombies, and a first life cleric, and knock this one out, but the goal posts would surely be moved, accusations of cheese builds abound, etc, etc...

The fact that reaper difficulty nerfs toons 90+% in some aspects already defeats the OPs claim handedly. All the PLs and EPLs in the game dont account for anywhere near 90% of the character power.

[Wonedream]

Warlocks, sure. Put it together how you want it. First life only.



Can you do it or not?

Im not here to debate anything.



Are we all clear what the challenge is?

[Wonedream]

Let me put it this way...


Or let me put it that way :P :P :P

[Jasparion]

This challenge is to PROVE that

A) Alt toons with 1 life put in them are never going to be worth much, and can not keep up with the content of power creep.

B) Alt toons with 1 life, good gear, a solid build, can still be worth playing and polishing to the top, because they can still handle the hardest content the game has to offer.


The problem. It takes too much time to build a good toon to invest time building 2. Some people do it, but they pay a price for that, losing a lot of time in their life, maybe they had nothing else to do. But most of us have lives! We are not going to spend 5 years making a good toon, then 5 more for another, after spending 5 years on a toon, most of us will by then stay on that toon, and never consider another. MOST.

So the problem is that alts are becoming pointless I say.

This test is to either prove or disprove me!


Take 1 life toons only... beat a raid and a well known challenging reaper 10 quest... slavers or so... one of those "it took us 6 hours, 1000 scrolls, all our best toons, but we did it" quests, not some chumpy easy one.


Get your best losers ready to win... to prove alts aren't a lost cause!

Oh, and someone's gotta make a video of this sorrow attempt to disprove me.. so I can laugh when you all get killed so badly, run out of scrolls, and feel the toll of your pride breaking as you committed yourself to trying to disprove me and now your loser toon is dying and your will is breaking... Please make a video!!!

Ill even join if you want, I got plenty of 1 life toons ready to go, you name the server... Im already there with level 20 waiting to make it happen. I will join in the pain and try my best. That is entirely optional.

If you lose I laugh.

If you win I smile. Because that would validate a reason to keeping up with first life toons. I just dont have the energy or time to TR them at all, I got children, responsibilities, and a life like normal people and don't have time to make my collection shine. And if it can't keep up with the end game challenges (reaper 10 epics), it aint shining. Since it isnt much fun collecting a bunch of not shining losers, I wont bother. But if they do shine, if they can beat the reaper 10, if they are NOT all absolutely doomed to trivial mediocre stuff while mains are enjoying the most epic fights and they will just have to miss out... then they are still worth playing and I will keep my collection and polish it off.

Also, the results of this challenge can be used in future debates. It will provide objective evidence to support or abolish my claim!

So you reckon you could make a character in WoW and solo dungeons to level 110 and then go straight in to solo'ing Mythic dungeons and raids?

Cool.

[Pyed-Pyper]

This challenge is to PROVE that

A) Alt toons with 1 life put in them are never going to be worth much, and can not keep up with the content of power creep.

....

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/..._Non_Existence

[Wonedream]

Think of this as a science.

This challenge is a theory.

And like any good theory you only need to disprove one time to eradicate it.

Once again, outside of that, I am not going to debate philosophy now.

My theory is that first life toons cannot possibly beat reaper 10.

Am I right?

[Wonedream]

Oh I will join on equal footing alright!

I don't have a program for video recording my quests. If someone could conveniently tell me where a good free program is Ill see it its not too much a pain in the butt with gimicks and sign ons to install, and if it is clean I will install it and use it to make a video.

But I ain't gonna do it alone!

Do I really want to go try and solo a raid or tough quest alone with a first life toon when I already know **** well what will happen? No.

But if others insist I come along and help, I will be happy to. And I will do my best to WIN. To destroy my own challenge. To see it happen.


And it made me laugh when Perma, you said if it does happen it means reaper 10 isn't working right. So, the mechanics are intently made so power creep shuts out first life toons from final game fun?

How much time are we expected then, to invest in ANY toon that it is ready for final game fun? 3 years? 5?

I am not opposed to this. But I am saying in all honesty it means too much torture repetition for me to even begin to consider making an alt that good. And if I can't make it that good, why bother making it at all, investing valuable time that could be spent making my main toon uber uber insane uber oho my god uberly uber!!! And enjoying a build that isn't gimped instead of gimping it?


I suppose it is a matter of human psychology, desire, motivation, and time/energy that determines how appealing it is to play alts, repeat everything just to have 2 complete toons handling finals... but honestly, I think the people who would do that are a small minority with a monopoly on fairness denying a majority that won't be spending years on two different toons.

So or so Reaper is tons of fun! Loving the game! My main toon is busier then ever! He is even beginning to craft now, since there is no point in alt crafters, logging back and forth, and all that. My other toons are.. pretty awesome mules :P... that, I won't ever play with now. But they can hold stuff for my main. So I guess they are not totally useless, just no longer fun to play, the carrot is too far away :P

[Mofus]

Why would you take a first life toon through reaper 10? Reaper is supposed to be for experienced players who have op toons and are looking for a more challenging experience. Just because you cant run reaper 10 on a first life toon doesn't mean that alts are worthless. Most veteran players have a lot of alts, some first life. That doesn't mean that we espire to run them all through reaper 10 quests. There are 10 levels of reaper to choose from as well as casual, normal, hard and elite. Run your mains through higher level reaper and alts through lower levels until they are ready to advance in higher level skulls.

[Mofus]

After going back and reading the ops additional posts, It looks to me like he/she is just looking for people to pug reaper quests with.....good luck

[dunklezhan]

Honestly, I think the people who would do that are a small minority with a monopoly on fairness denying a majority that won't be spending years on two different toons.

Yep, that's an objective open mind alrighty.

Also do you really think phrasing your entire challenge like an 8 year old is the best way to get results here in DDO? 'Do this or you're chicken'? Really?

[Wonedream]

I issue a challenge and everyone thinks its a debate :P

(I need to post a picture of the Joker now.. you all know the meme I am sure by now :P)

[slarden]

Expecting a first life character to perform as good in reaper as more accomplished character is not a reasonable expectation. But keep in mind you can bring a 1st life character to a 6-person party on R10 and be valued and effective.

Con Based Dwarf Cleric 17 / fighter 3 in unyielding sentinel - group healer. 20% hp from defensive stance and 20% hp bonus from unyielding sentinel on top of a con-build covers alot of sins. Take shield feats with fighter levels. Try for a workable dire charge.

Make yourself known as a healing specialist, don't suck, you will find people that want to group with you for R10 runs.

If you want me to prove it, bring competent people running tank, cc, instakill, trapper, dps and I will.

[Robbenklopper]

This challenge is to PROVE that

A) Alt toons with 1 life put in them are never going to be worth much, and can not keep up with the content of power creep.

B) Alt toons with 1 life, good gear, a solid build, can still be worth playing and polishing to the top, because they can still handle the hardest content the game has to offer.


The problem. It takes too much time to build a good toon to invest time building 2. Some people do it, but they pay a price for that, losing a lot of time in their life, maybe they had nothing else to do. But most of us have lives! We are not going to spend 5 years making a good toon, then 5 more for another, after spending 5 years on a toon, most of us will by then stay on that toon, and never consider another. MOST.

So the problem is that alts are becoming pointless I say.

This test is to either prove or disprove me!


Take 1 life toons only... beat a raid and a well known challenging reaper 10 quest... slavers or so... one of those "it took us 6 hours, 1000 scrolls, all our best toons, but we did it" quests, not some chumpy easy one.


Get your best losers ready to win... to prove alts aren't a lost cause!

Oh, and someone's gotta make a video of this sorrow attempt to disprove me.. so I can laugh when you all get killed so badly, run out of scrolls, and feel the toll of your pride breaking as you committed yourself to trying to disprove me and now your loser toon is dying and your will is breaking... Please make a video!!!

Ill even join if you want, I got plenty of 1 life toons ready to go, you name the server... Im already there with level 20 waiting to make it happen. I will join in the pain and try my best. That is entirely optional.

If you lose I laugh.

If you win I smile. Because that would validate a reason to keeping up with first life toons. I just dont have the energy or time to TR them at all, I got children, responsibilities, and a life like normal people and don't have time to make my collection shine. And if it can't keep up with the end game challenges (reaper 10 epics), it aint shining. Since it isnt much fun collecting a bunch of not shining losers, I wont bother. But if they do shine, if they can beat the reaper 10, if they are NOT all absolutely doomed to trivial mediocre stuff while mains are enjoying the most epic fights and they will just have to miss out... then they are still worth playing and I will keep my collection and polish it off.

Also, the results of this challenge can be used in future debates. It will provide objective evidence to support or abolish my claim!

This is so futile imho. Sad Story, but sorry.

[Kebtid]

So you think someone should put effort to build a first life character on a optimum build and force other 11 people to do that /for the raid purpose, then those 12 people should be forced to farm daily reaper xp in lowbies on skull 1 on a fast to complete quest, do some gear foo with cannith crafted gear, get some slavers completed heroic gear with their mains and invest cookies/clickies/pots to prove you A unknown invidual that it is doable?

It is doable, really doable, but i doubt anyone will put that much effort to prove you are wrong, why would people do that?
Game was designed with the invention of tr and invention of epic reincarnation and icoconic reincarnation to favor a 1 main playstyle, epic shroud brought alts a bit for mats but this game was primarly focused on 1 character /many loot alts playstyle.

I can guarantee you that its doable, but i will also guarantee that noone will put effort into doing this.
Now if you offerd me and people i could maybe force to do this around 5000 tp each, then yes we have a deal, because that is minimal ammount of investment you need to do for the time it will take us to prove you wrong.

[Wonedream]

No. No one should. No one has to. Don't do it!

Certainly don't waste a week preparing for this. Surely there are plenty of one life toons already available.

And if no one has the guts... it is fine with me. I understand. Others will too!


Unfortunately... no one gets to Valhalla if they are afraid to try :P