Reaper XP

[Severlin]

Greetings!

We have had some questions about how Reaper XP is calculated, so I wanted to post some details about how we award it.

First, some news:

~ Reaper XP is currently not getting a modifier for dungeon length as intended and explained below. That is a bug and will be fixed in an upcoming patch.


That said, here are some details about Reaper XP and how it is awarded.


Reaper Experience starts with a base formula as follows:

50 + (3 * Base Challenge Rating of the Dungeon/Raid * Number of Reaper Skulls)

This total is then modified by a whole slew of experience related adjustments as follows:

BUGGED: This first multiplier is bugged and does not apply until the next time we update.
1.) We multiply the base XP by a factor for dungeon length.

• Short dungeons have a multiplier of 0.9
• Medium dungeons have a multiplier of 1.0
• Long dungeons have a multiplier of 1.1
• Very Long dungeons have a multiplier of 1.2

2.) We take the level of the highest party member and compare it to the base challenge rating. This creates a “spread” between the difficulty of the dungeon and the highest party member.

Once the spread is determined we apply the following penalty:

• If there is a 1 level difference: -20% of base XP.
• If there is a 2 level difference: -50% of base XP.
• If there is a 3 level difference: -70% of base XP
• If there is a 4 level difference: -80% of base XP
• If there is a 5 level difference: -90% of base XP.
• If there is a 6 level difference: -95% of base XP.

Note that this is not a multiplier to all XP, but rather a penalty to total XP based on the base XP. It works the same way as the normal XP penalty.

3.) Like normal XP, we modify the XP to account for power leveling if players are below level 20. We determine the spread between your level and the highest level in the party; if the spread is 4 or more, then a penalty is applied equal to 50% of base XP per level of difference.

4.) Reaper XP is modified for repetition. This is basically the Reaper version of the Ransack bonus.

First, if this is your first time completing this dungeon on Reaper mode we apply a 200% bonus. Like other XP bonuses, this bonus is not a multiplier to total Reaper XP, but rather an addition of 200% of the base Reaper XP.

If this is not your first time completing the dungeon, then we apply the same ransack penalties to Reaper XP that we would for normal XP.

5.) We modify the XP for Reaper XP during group bonus events the same way we increase normal XP. This means that during group weekend events, Reaper XP will be increased as your group size increases just like normal XP.

6.) We modify the XP for bonus Reaper XP events.

7.) Reaper XP is modified if a player enters well after the start time just like normal XP.

8.) Reaper XP is modified by various progress made in the dungeon.

• Players get the monsters killed bonus.
• Players get the traps disabled bonus.
• Players get the secret doors found bonus.
• Players get the breakables smashed bonus.

10.) Reaper XP is boosted by items that provide a permanent XP boost.

11.) Failed quests add no Reaper XP.

12.) If this is the first quest you have run today, you get the same bonus to Reaper XP that you would get to normal XP.

The following bonuses are not applied as additions or penalties of base Reaper XP like the above, but instead are multipliers to total Reaper XP applied after the fact.

13.) Any XP items that boost normal XP also boost Reaper XP. This includes web store items, in game items like Voice of the Master and Mantle of the World Shaper, and the Shrine of Experience from your guild Air Ship. This bonus is applied to total Reaper XP, and it is shown as a message in the chat log.

14.) The VIP bonus applies to Reaper XP is the same way as normal XP. This bonus is applied to total Reaper XP, and it is shown as a message in the chat log.

Sev~

[Amundir]

2.) We take the level of the highest party member and compare it to the effective challenge rating, like normal XP. This creates a “spread” between the difficulty of the dungeon and the highest party member. Note this uses the increased challenge rating based on elite, not the base challenge rating (in other words, the rating for Normal). As an example, a level 31 dungeon on Reaper has an effective level of 33; we use the 33 as the comparison.

So Reaper XP is based off of the modified effective level of elite, not the Normal effective level? Cause, if I'm not mistaken, we had a whole discussion in
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-clarification
talking about how it was based off of the Normal effective level.

[Cordovan]

So Reaper XP is based off of the modified effective level of elite, not the Normal effective level? Cause, if I'm not mistaken, we had a whole discussion in
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-clarification
talking about how it was based off of the Normal effective level.

That thread was partly the motivation for this informational thread.

[Amundir]

Gotcha. Awesome

[Wizza]

Yeah, but the RXP requirements are still insane, and the XP awarded is too little, the RXP awarded at cap is even less, and the RXP for cosmetics is also insane. What are your plans for these issues?

[Roland_D'Arabel]

So Reaper XP is based off of the modified effective level of elite, not the Normal effective level? Cause, if I'm not mistaken, we had a whole discussion in
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-clarification
talking about how it was based off of the Normal effective level.

That thread was partly the motivation for this informational thread.

So you are saying that the information provided in that thread and other threads by yourself and SSG and in the release notes is wrong?

I just want to make sure this is clear for everyone: Reaper XP and over level penalties/lockout is based on the modified effective level of elite, not the Normal effective level.

Given this information, a level 30 character should be able to enter a level 23 quest because that would make it effective level 25 on elite, which puts it within the 6 level lockout, right?

Time to edit the release notes, again.

[PsychoBlonde]

Yeah, but the RXP requirements are still insane, and the XP awarded is too little, the RXP awarded at cap is even less, and the RXP for cosmetics is also insane. What are your plans for these issues?

The upcoming fixes will probably have a BIG effect on this, particularly since most of the people inclined to run reaper are probably running Legend characters that take much more xp to "level" in Reaper currently, if I'm reading this right.

Sev, I think that Very Long should have a multiplier more like 1.5 or even 2.0. Yes, that's a lot, but that includes giant dungeons like The Pit, Haunted Halls, and Temple of Elemental Evil. The multiplier is going to have to be pretty steep to get people to run the mega-dungeons on Reaper.

Granted, I solo'd The Pit at level 8 on 5 skulls, but apparently I'm some kind of maniac.

[Graskitch]

13.) Any XP items that boost normal XP also boost Reaper XP. This includes web store items, in game items like Voice of the Master and Mantle of the World Shaper, and the Shrine of Experience from your guild Air Ship. This bonus is applied to total Reaper XP, and it is shown as a message in the chat log.

Hi Cordovan, you had mentioned in a recent livestream that the Voice of the Master and the Mantle do not boost reaper xp (I had not tested this in-game). So just to be sure, according to this post, they do boost reaper xp?

You had also mentioned in the livestream that the Tomes of Learning do not boost reaper xp. So my understanding from Severlin's post is that they *should* increase reaper xp as well, correct?

[Cantor]

There is a lot in this post that is not how it is currently working, if they fix all this stuff it will be a whole different picture. Looking forward to that patch.

[Cordovan]

Hi Cordovan, you had mentioned in a recent livestream that the Voice of the Master and the Mantle do not boost reaper xp (I had not tested this in-game). So just to be sure, according to this post, they do boost reaper xp?

You had also mentioned in the livestream that the Tomes of Learning do not boost reaper xp. So my understanding from Severlin's post is that they *should* increase reaper xp as well, correct?

Right. I'm only as good as the information I have, and clearly I wasn't up to speed on the finer details. Consider this the info from the source.

[Lerl]

?So, my main, who is running level 4 quests on R1, is getting a 20% RXP hit?

[die]

Greetings!

We have had some questions about how Reaper XP is calculated, so I wanted to post some details about how we award it.

First, some news:

~ Reaper XP is currently not getting a modifier for dungeon length as intended and explained below. That is a bug and will be fixed in an upcoming patch.

~ Like normal experience points, Reaper XP inherited the True Reincarnation experience penalty. We have had inquiries into this from players and internal discussion, and we agree that this not only makes little sense, but unduly penalizes long term characters. We are removing this penalty for an upcoming patch or hotfix.


That said, here are some details about Reaper XP and how it is awarded.


Reaper Experience starts with a base formula as follows:

50 + (3 * Base Challenge Rating of the Dungeon/Raid * Number of Reaper Skulls)

This total is then modified by a whole slew of experience related adjustments as follows:

BUGGED: This first multiplier is bugged and does not apply until the next time we update.
1.) We multiply the base XP by a factor for dungeon length.

• Short dungeons have a multiplier of 0.9
• Medium dungeons have a multiplier of 1.0
• Long dungeons have a multiplier of 1.1
• Very Long dungeons have a multiplier of 1.2

2.) We take the level of the highest party member and compare it to the effective challenge rating, like normal XP. This creates a “spread” between the difficulty of the dungeon and the highest party member. Note this uses the increased challenge rating based on elite, not the base challenge rating (in other words, the rating for Normal). As an example, a level 31 dungeon on Reaper has an effective level of 33; we use the 33 as the comparison.

A level 20+ character gets no Reaper XP for any dungeon less than 20. This leaves a little leeway, since dungeons with a base Challenge Rating of 18 would still have an effective level of 20. This check returns a penalty of -100%. That doesn’t mean you won’t get XP, just that your XP will be reduced by the full base amount.

Once the spread is determined we apply the following penalty:

• If there is a 1 level difference: -20% of base XP.
• If there is a 2 level difference: -50% of base XP.
• If there is a 3 level difference: -70% of base XP
• If there is a 4 level difference: -80% of base XP
• If there is a 5 level difference: -90% of base XP.
• If there is a 6 level difference: -95% of base XP.

Note that this is not a multiplier to all XP, but rather a penalty to total XP based on the base XP. It works the same way as the normal XP penalty.

3.) Like normal XP, we modify the XP to account for power leveling if players are below level 20. We determine the spread between your level and the highest level in the party; if the spread is 4 or more, then a penalty is applied equal to 50% of base XP per level of difference.

4.) Reaper XP is modified for repetition. This is basically the Reaper version of the Ransack bonus.

First, if this is your first time completing this dungeon on Reaper mode we apply a 200% bonus. Like other XP bonuses, this bonus is not a multiplier to total Reaper XP, but rather an addition of 200% of the base Reaper XP.

If this is not your first time completing the dungeon, then we apply the same ransack penalties to Reaper XP that we would for normal XP.

5.) We modify the XP for Reaper XP during group bonus events the same way we increase normal XP. This means that during group weekend events, Reaper XP will be increased as your group size increases just like normal XP.

6.) We modify the XP for bonus Reaper XP events.

7.) Reaper XP is modified if a player enters well after the start time just like normal XP.

8.) Reaper XP is modified by various progress made in the dungeon.

• Players get the monsters killed bonus.
• Players get the chests looted bonus.
• Players get the traps disabled bonus.
• Players get the secret doors found bonus.
• Players get the breakables smashed bonus.

9.) Reaper XP is reduced for a player's True Reincarnation penalty. This will be removed in a future patch.

10.) Reaper XP is boosted by items that provide a permanent XP boost.

11.) Failed quests add no Reaper XP.

12.) If this is the first quest you have run today, you get the same bonus to Reaper XP that you would get to normal XP.

The following bonuses are not applied as additions or penalties of base Reaper XP like the above, but instead are multipliers to total Reaper XP applied after the fact.

13.) Any XP items that boost normal XP also boost Reaper XP. This includes web store items, in game items like Voice of the Master and Mantle of the World Shaper, and the Shrine of Experience from your guild Air Ship. This bonus is applied to total Reaper XP, and it is shown as a message in the chat log.

14.) The VIP bonus applies to Reaper XP is the same way as normal XP. This bonus is applied to total Reaper XP, and it is shown as a message in the chat log.

Sev~

I only have one thing to say... RAVENLOFT In all seriousness, I LOVE reaper mode. Thank you! Here is to a kick ass year! - Doom

[Graskitch]

ok. I was anticipating that ddo would have put out a Tome of Reaper Learning in the ddo store and/or that that maybe there would be some new in-game trinket as a reward from a reaper quest chain that would grant a reaper xp bonus.

[Cantor]

?So, my main, who is running level 4 quests on R1, is getting a 20% RXP hit?

not enough info, but currently we are getting penalty if over the base (normal) level. This reads as it should be elite level, yeah!

[Krell]

Good information. The corrections should help some. Modifiers for length should be greater. A very long quest can take 5-10x longer than a short one. Based on these multipliers chaining short quests is the best return. In the end, I think we'll find the XP amounts are still too small and need to be moved out a decimal point.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

How do you figure heroic and epic otto's stones? After all if people are wanting to tr to get reaper xp then using them would be counter productive to them.
Perhaps we could get a reaper saga- do any existing saga on reaper and it takes your skull level and averages it out. kind of like we get true elite, elite etc.

[Saekee]

I suggest boosting long quest xp by simply making long quest xp be account-wide. This will encourage alts & running long quests.

[HastyPudding]

So...running a level 2 quest on elite (level 4 quest) as a level 4 character implies a -50% penalty to reaper XP but doesn't touch the character xp?

[Impaqt]

What is this "True reincarnation Penalty"?

[SirValentine]

Reaper Experience starts with a base formula as follows:

50 + (3 * Base Challenge Rating of the Dungeon/Raid * Number of Reaper Skulls)

OK, this seems to match so far. I step into a base-level-20, difficulty-modified-level-22, dungeon, on 1 Skull, and get
50 + 3*(20+2)*1 = 116.
And that matches the base XP reported at the top of the XP report, after killing the first 10 mobs.

This total is then modified by a whole slew of experience related adjustments as follows:

Right, which is why the bottom of my XP report says 381. First-time Reaper bonus, etc..

2.) We take the level of the highest party member and compare it to the effective challenge rating, like normal XP. This creates a “spread” between the difficulty of the dungeon and the highest party member. Note this uses the increased challenge rating based on elite, not the base challenge rating (in other words, the rating for Normal). As an example, a level 31 dungeon on Reaper has an effective level of 33; we use the 33 as the comparison.

A level 20+ character gets no Reaper XP for any dungeon less than 20. This leaves a little leeway, since dungeons with a base Challenge Rating of 18 would still have an effective level of 20. This check returns a penalty of -100%. That doesn’t mean you won’t get XP, just that your XP will be reduced by the full base amount.

Once the spread is determined we apply the following penalty:

• If there is a 1 level difference: -20% of base XP.
• If there is a 2 level difference: -50% of base XP.
• If there is a 3 level difference: -70% of base XP
• If there is a 4 level difference: -80% of base XP
• If there is a 5 level difference: -90% of base XP.
• If there is a 6 level difference: -95% of base XP.

Note that this is not a multiplier to all XP, but rather a penalty to total XP based on the base XP. It works the same way as the normal XP penalty.

This does not appear to be the way it's working. As soon as a level 23 character steps in my base-level-20, difficulty-modified-level-22, dungeon, by what you said, XP should go down by 10% of base XP, or down 12 XP, to 269.

If it were actually using base-level instead of modified-level, it would go down by 70%. But if that's of base XP, it's still only down 82 XP, to 299 XP.

But in actually, my total XP goes down from 381, to 121. That's DOWN by 68% of the total, or 224% of the base.

Something is way, way off in-game from what you're claiming here.

9.) Reaper XP is reduced for a player's True Reincarnation penalty. This will be removed in a future patch.

What does this mean? What is a True Reincarnation penalty?