Reaper XP

[Severlin]

Greetings!

We have had some questions about how Reaper XP is calculated, so I wanted to post some details about how we award it.

First, some news:

~ Reaper XP is currently not getting a modifier for dungeon length as intended and explained below. That is a bug and will be fixed in an upcoming patch.


That said, here are some details about Reaper XP and how it is awarded.


Reaper Experience starts with a base formula as follows:

50 + (3 * Base Challenge Rating of the Dungeon/Raid * Number of Reaper Skulls)

This total is then modified by a whole slew of experience related adjustments as follows:

BUGGED: This first multiplier is bugged and does not apply until the next time we update.
1.) We multiply the base XP by a factor for dungeon length.

• Short dungeons have a multiplier of 0.9
• Medium dungeons have a multiplier of 1.0
• Long dungeons have a multiplier of 1.1
• Very Long dungeons have a multiplier of 1.2

2.) We take the level of the highest party member and compare it to the base challenge rating. This creates a “spread” between the difficulty of the dungeon and the highest party member.

Once the spread is determined we apply the following penalty:

• If there is a 1 level difference: -20% of base XP.
• If there is a 2 level difference: -50% of base XP.
• If there is a 3 level difference: -70% of base XP
• If there is a 4 level difference: -80% of base XP
• If there is a 5 level difference: -90% of base XP.
• If there is a 6 level difference: -95% of base XP.

Note that this is not a multiplier to all XP, but rather a penalty to total XP based on the base XP. It works the same way as the normal XP penalty.

3.) Like normal XP, we modify the XP to account for power leveling if players are below level 20. We determine the spread between your level and the highest level in the party; if the spread is 4 or more, then a penalty is applied equal to 50% of base XP per level of difference.

4.) Reaper XP is modified for repetition. This is basically the Reaper version of the Ransack bonus.

First, if this is your first time completing this dungeon on Reaper mode we apply a 200% bonus. Like other XP bonuses, this bonus is not a multiplier to total Reaper XP, but rather an addition of 200% of the base Reaper XP.

If this is not your first time completing the dungeon, then we apply the same ransack penalties to Reaper XP that we would for normal XP.

5.) We modify the XP for Reaper XP during group bonus events the same way we increase normal XP. This means that during group weekend events, Reaper XP will be increased as your group size increases just like normal XP.

6.) We modify the XP for bonus Reaper XP events.

7.) Reaper XP is modified if a player enters well after the start time just like normal XP.

8.) Reaper XP is modified by various progress made in the dungeon.

• Players get the monsters killed bonus.
• Players get the traps disabled bonus.
• Players get the secret doors found bonus.
• Players get the breakables smashed bonus.

10.) Reaper XP is boosted by items that provide a permanent XP boost.

11.) Failed quests add no Reaper XP.

12.) If this is the first quest you have run today, you get the same bonus to Reaper XP that you would get to normal XP.

The following bonuses are not applied as additions or penalties of base Reaper XP like the above, but instead are multipliers to total Reaper XP applied after the fact.

13.) Any XP items that boost normal XP also boost Reaper XP. This includes web store items, in game items like Voice of the Master and Mantle of the World Shaper, and the Shrine of Experience from your guild Air Ship. This bonus is applied to total Reaper XP, and it is shown as a message in the chat log.

14.) The VIP bonus applies to Reaper XP is the same way as normal XP. This bonus is applied to total Reaper XP, and it is shown as a message in the chat log.

Sev~

[Amundir]

2.) We take the level of the highest party member and compare it to the effective challenge rating, like normal XP. This creates a “spread” between the difficulty of the dungeon and the highest party member. Note this uses the increased challenge rating based on elite, not the base challenge rating (in other words, the rating for Normal). As an example, a level 31 dungeon on Reaper has an effective level of 33; we use the 33 as the comparison.

So Reaper XP is based off of the modified effective level of elite, not the Normal effective level? Cause, if I'm not mistaken, we had a whole discussion in
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-clarification
talking about how it was based off of the Normal effective level.

[Cordovan]

So Reaper XP is based off of the modified effective level of elite, not the Normal effective level? Cause, if I'm not mistaken, we had a whole discussion in
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-clarification
talking about how it was based off of the Normal effective level.

That thread was partly the motivation for this informational thread.

[Amundir]

Gotcha. Awesome

[Wizza]

Yeah, but the RXP requirements are still insane, and the XP awarded is too little, the RXP awarded at cap is even less, and the RXP for cosmetics is also insane. What are your plans for these issues?

[PsychoBlonde]

Yeah, but the RXP requirements are still insane, and the XP awarded is too little, the RXP awarded at cap is even less, and the RXP for cosmetics is also insane. What are your plans for these issues?

The upcoming fixes will probably have a BIG effect on this, particularly since most of the people inclined to run reaper are probably running Legend characters that take much more xp to "level" in Reaper currently, if I'm reading this right.

Sev, I think that Very Long should have a multiplier more like 1.5 or even 2.0. Yes, that's a lot, but that includes giant dungeons like The Pit, Haunted Halls, and Temple of Elemental Evil. The multiplier is going to have to be pretty steep to get people to run the mega-dungeons on Reaper.

Granted, I solo'd The Pit at level 8 on 5 skulls, but apparently I'm some kind of maniac.

[Roland_D'Arabel]

So Reaper XP is based off of the modified effective level of elite, not the Normal effective level? Cause, if I'm not mistaken, we had a whole discussion in
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-clarification
talking about how it was based off of the Normal effective level.

That thread was partly the motivation for this informational thread.

So you are saying that the information provided in that thread and other threads by yourself and SSG and in the release notes is wrong?

I just want to make sure this is clear for everyone: Reaper XP and over level penalties/lockout is based on the modified effective level of elite, not the Normal effective level.

Given this information, a level 30 character should be able to enter a level 23 quest because that would make it effective level 25 on elite, which puts it within the 6 level lockout, right?

Time to edit the release notes, again.

[Lerl]

?So, my main, who is running level 4 quests on R1, is getting a 20% RXP hit?

[Cantor]

?So, my main, who is running level 4 quests on R1, is getting a 20% RXP hit?

not enough info, but currently we are getting penalty if over the base (normal) level. This reads as it should be elite level, yeah!

[Lord_Asmodeus]

How do you figure heroic and epic otto's stones? After all if people are wanting to tr to get reaper xp then using them would be counter productive to them.
Perhaps we could get a reaper saga- do any existing saga on reaper and it takes your skull level and averages it out. kind of like we get true elite, elite etc.

[Saekee]

I suggest boosting long quest xp by simply making long quest xp be account-wide. This will encourage alts & running long quests.

[HastyPudding]

So...running a level 2 quest on elite (level 4 quest) as a level 4 character implies a -50% penalty to reaper XP but doesn't touch the character xp?

[Graskitch]

13.) Any XP items that boost normal XP also boost Reaper XP. This includes web store items, in game items like Voice of the Master and Mantle of the World Shaper, and the Shrine of Experience from your guild Air Ship. This bonus is applied to total Reaper XP, and it is shown as a message in the chat log.

Hi Cordovan, you had mentioned in a recent livestream that the Voice of the Master and the Mantle do not boost reaper xp (I had not tested this in-game). So just to be sure, according to this post, they do boost reaper xp?

You had also mentioned in the livestream that the Tomes of Learning do not boost reaper xp. So my understanding from Severlin's post is that they *should* increase reaper xp as well, correct?

[Cantor]

There is a lot in this post that is not how it is currently working, if they fix all this stuff it will be a whole different picture. Looking forward to that patch.

[Cordovan]

Hi Cordovan, you had mentioned in a recent livestream that the Voice of the Master and the Mantle do not boost reaper xp (I had not tested this in-game). So just to be sure, according to this post, they do boost reaper xp?

You had also mentioned in the livestream that the Tomes of Learning do not boost reaper xp. So my understanding from Severlin's post is that they *should* increase reaper xp as well, correct?

Right. I'm only as good as the information I have, and clearly I wasn't up to speed on the finer details. Consider this the info from the source.

[Graskitch]

ok. I was anticipating that ddo would have put out a Tome of Reaper Learning in the ddo store and/or that that maybe there would be some new in-game trinket as a reward from a reaper quest chain that would grant a reaper xp bonus.

[Krell]

Good information. The corrections should help some. Modifiers for length should be greater. A very long quest can take 5-10x longer than a short one. Based on these multipliers chaining short quests is the best return. In the end, I think we'll find the XP amounts are still too small and need to be moved out a decimal point.

[Thanimal]

Good information. The corrections should help some. Modifiers for length should be greater. A very long quest can take 5-10x longer than a short one. Based on these multipliers chaining short quests is the best return. In the end, I think we'll find the XP amounts are still too small and need to be moved out a decimal point.

Yes, that.

I know feedback is prone to exaggeration, but I honestly think the Reaper XP needs at least a factor of 10 increase in order for me to be interested. I was just all proud of myself for completing Lords of Dust on Reaper1 as a 27, and then I got a good laugh when I realized I would have to do 46 such quests in order to get ONE Reaper point. (And Velosity is on her first life.)

For me personally, that number can't be any more than 5 for me to be interested in it. And thus the 10x increase required. Honestly, I'd prefer 20x.

Of course, I do not know the goals nor intended audience for this feature. I only know if the goal is to get ME interested in doing lots of Reaper quests, then there has to be dramatically more tangible progress from doing so.

[Elfishski]

2.) We take the level of the highest party member and compare it to the effective challenge rating, like normal XP. This creates a “spread” between the difficulty of the dungeon and the highest party member. Note this uses the increased challenge rating based on elite, not the base challenge rating (in other words, the rating for Normal). As an example, a level 31 dungeon on Reaper has an effective level of 33; we use the 33 as the comparison.

A level 20+ character gets no Reaper XP for any dungeon less than 20. This leaves a little leeway, since dungeons with a base Challenge Rating of 18 would still have an effective level of 20. This check returns a penalty of -100%. That doesn’t mean you won’t get XP, just that your XP will be reduced by the full base amount.

Once the spread is determined we apply the following penalty:

• If there is a 1 level difference: -20% of base XP.
• If there is a 2 level difference: -50% of base XP.
• If there is a 3 level difference: -70% of base XP
• If there is a 4 level difference: -80% of base XP
• If there is a 5 level difference: -90% of base XP.
• If there is a 6 level difference: -95% of base XP.

Note that this is not a multiplier to all XP, but rather a penalty to total XP based on the base XP. It works the same way as the normal XP penalty.

As a bunch of other people have said, that's not how it says it in the release notes or what anyone is experiencing in play, in terms of using the modified elite level rather than the base level. Personally I like it using the base level as seemingly implemented, and I think people can be reminded that because the formula is almost linear then if they'd like doing Reaper 1 at base level for "full" xp they can get almost the same xp if they do Reaper 2 at 2 levels higher (elite BB level) rather than complaining about losing half their xp.

4.) Reaper XP is modified for repetition. This is basically the Reaper version of the Ransack bonus.

First, if this is your first time completing this dungeon on Reaper mode we apply a 200% bonus. Like other XP bonuses, this bonus is not a multiplier to total Reaper XP, but rather an addition of 200% of the base Reaper XP.

If this is not your first time completing the dungeon, then we apply the same ransack penalties to Reaper XP that we would for normal XP.

I like this idea in principle and it doesn't effect my characters particularly either way, but in practise it overly incentives TRing. Rather than a first time bonus I'd like to see higher base XP but a long lasting repetition/ransack penalty so that players sitting at cap can repeat legendary quests every 3 days for the full amount.

So Reaper XP is based off of the modified effective level of elite, not the Normal effective level? Cause, if I'm not mistaken, we had a whole discussion in
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-clarification
talking about how it was based off of the Normal effective level.

Yes, clarification didn't clarify clearly.

This is the only bit I would like looked at. Already there is a big problem with XP when a 10 minute quest can give you up to 20k XP, but there are plenty of 30 and 40 minute quests which give as little as 20k XP as well.

If you are able to modify XP based on length, then I would think:

• Short dungeons have a multiplier of 0.8
• Medium dungeons have a multiplier of 1.0
• Long dungeons have a multiplier of 1.2
• Very Long dungeons have a multiplier of 1.4

Is far more reasonable. Some "Short" dungeons are done inside a minute or 2. Some "Very Long" dungeons can take 40 minutes or more... and on Reaper will take an hour. I really think there should be encouragement for those Very Long dungeons - particularly because you guys put so much work in to them !

Cheers.

Agreed. Also these modifiers are mostly relevant only in the earlier levels because after a certain point nearly every quest is marked as Very Long.

Yes, that.

I know feedback is prone to exaggeration, but I honestly think the Reaper XP needs at least a factor of 10 increase in order for me to be interested. I was just all proud of myself for completing Lords of Dust on Reaper1 as a 27, and then I got a good laugh when I realized I would have to do 46 such quests in order to get ONE Reaper point. (And Velosity is on her first life.)

For me personally, that number can't be any more than 5 for me to be interested in it. And thus the 10x increase required. Honestly, I'd prefer 20x.

Of course, I do not know the goals nor intended audience for this feature. I only know if the goal is to get ME interested in doing lots of Reaper quests, then there has to be dramatically more tangible progress from doing so.

Disagreed, your problem is that you're running at the maximum level over the quest there and taking a 95% penalty to all your xp. If you ran Lords of Dust at level 21 on Reaper 1 you would get 20x the xp and be in the ballpark of what you're asking for. If it's too hard solo at that level, find some friends or puggers and then you'll feel the tangible progress. Or seeing as you're level 27 already, run stormhorns on Reaper 1 and you'll get your first pip after a couple of quests.

[die]

Greetings!

We have had some questions about how Reaper XP is calculated, so I wanted to post some details about how we award it.

First, some news:

~ Reaper XP is currently not getting a modifier for dungeon length as intended and explained below. That is a bug and will be fixed in an upcoming patch.

~ Like normal experience points, Reaper XP inherited the True Reincarnation experience penalty. We have had inquiries into this from players and internal discussion, and we agree that this not only makes little sense, but unduly penalizes long term characters. We are removing this penalty for an upcoming patch or hotfix.


That said, here are some details about Reaper XP and how it is awarded.


Reaper Experience starts with a base formula as follows:

50 + (3 * Base Challenge Rating of the Dungeon/Raid * Number of Reaper Skulls)

This total is then modified by a whole slew of experience related adjustments as follows:

BUGGED: This first multiplier is bugged and does not apply until the next time we update.
1.) We multiply the base XP by a factor for dungeon length.

• Short dungeons have a multiplier of 0.9
• Medium dungeons have a multiplier of 1.0
• Long dungeons have a multiplier of 1.1
• Very Long dungeons have a multiplier of 1.2

2.) We take the level of the highest party member and compare it to the effective challenge rating, like normal XP. This creates a “spread” between the difficulty of the dungeon and the highest party member. Note this uses the increased challenge rating based on elite, not the base challenge rating (in other words, the rating for Normal). As an example, a level 31 dungeon on Reaper has an effective level of 33; we use the 33 as the comparison.

A level 20+ character gets no Reaper XP for any dungeon less than 20. This leaves a little leeway, since dungeons with a base Challenge Rating of 18 would still have an effective level of 20. This check returns a penalty of -100%. That doesn’t mean you won’t get XP, just that your XP will be reduced by the full base amount.

Once the spread is determined we apply the following penalty:

• If there is a 1 level difference: -20% of base XP.
• If there is a 2 level difference: -50% of base XP.
• If there is a 3 level difference: -70% of base XP
• If there is a 4 level difference: -80% of base XP
• If there is a 5 level difference: -90% of base XP.
• If there is a 6 level difference: -95% of base XP.

Note that this is not a multiplier to all XP, but rather a penalty to total XP based on the base XP. It works the same way as the normal XP penalty.

3.) Like normal XP, we modify the XP to account for power leveling if players are below level 20. We determine the spread between your level and the highest level in the party; if the spread is 4 or more, then a penalty is applied equal to 50% of base XP per level of difference.

4.) Reaper XP is modified for repetition. This is basically the Reaper version of the Ransack bonus.

First, if this is your first time completing this dungeon on Reaper mode we apply a 200% bonus. Like other XP bonuses, this bonus is not a multiplier to total Reaper XP, but rather an addition of 200% of the base Reaper XP.

If this is not your first time completing the dungeon, then we apply the same ransack penalties to Reaper XP that we would for normal XP.

5.) We modify the XP for Reaper XP during group bonus events the same way we increase normal XP. This means that during group weekend events, Reaper XP will be increased as your group size increases just like normal XP.

6.) We modify the XP for bonus Reaper XP events.

7.) Reaper XP is modified if a player enters well after the start time just like normal XP.

8.) Reaper XP is modified by various progress made in the dungeon.

• Players get the monsters killed bonus.
• Players get the chests looted bonus.
• Players get the traps disabled bonus.
• Players get the secret doors found bonus.
• Players get the breakables smashed bonus.

9.) Reaper XP is reduced for a player's True Reincarnation penalty. This will be removed in a future patch.

10.) Reaper XP is boosted by items that provide a permanent XP boost.

11.) Failed quests add no Reaper XP.

12.) If this is the first quest you have run today, you get the same bonus to Reaper XP that you would get to normal XP.

The following bonuses are not applied as additions or penalties of base Reaper XP like the above, but instead are multipliers to total Reaper XP applied after the fact.

13.) Any XP items that boost normal XP also boost Reaper XP. This includes web store items, in game items like Voice of the Master and Mantle of the World Shaper, and the Shrine of Experience from your guild Air Ship. This bonus is applied to total Reaper XP, and it is shown as a message in the chat log.

14.) The VIP bonus applies to Reaper XP is the same way as normal XP. This bonus is applied to total Reaper XP, and it is shown as a message in the chat log.

Sev~

I only have one thing to say... RAVENLOFT In all seriousness, I LOVE reaper mode. Thank you! Here is to a kick ass year! - Doom