Reaper XP

[Yalinaa]

Ok On Khyber there are at least 3 groups that I know of running Reaper 3 so my answer to you is:-

1) Change servers
2) If no to 1 then solo

I Know Van, he does high skulls often. Why would he want to go to a server, where ppl are dying on reaper 3 (low skull)...?
He is interested in R10 or similar parties, man.

[MistaMagic]

Can you stop repeating this? This is a non-argument. The difficulty can be adjusted to match the 2 levels. There is no logical reason for the reaper and normal xp systems be in conflict. This is only happening because a team of developers that clearly don't know the game that is supposed to be their job did this.

I would point out that the developers you happen to mention are the owners of the game and not YOU. If you do not like what they do then do not play the game its as simple as that so either put up or shut up

[MistaMagic]

I Know Van, he does high skulls often. Why would he want to go to a server, where ppl are dying on reaper 3 (low skull)...?
He is interested in R10 or similar parties, man.

Well you go play with him then as he seems kinda lonely, and are you saying you do not die, omg some people

[Ladywolf]

For the record, there is no comparison on reaper xp gain between heroic and cap. Heroic is easily 4+ x faster.

For the first 3-4 days after the update I played my (nearly) triple completionist at cap, earning 30k reaper xp, but it was mainly obtained in the first couple days, as after that, there was no first time bonus. So I'd say It was extremely slow to get reaper xp in the 3rd and 4th day - so slow that I TR'd even though I get NO BENEFIT other than reaper xp. In the next 3 days I obtained so much reaper xp, there is no comparison. Off the top of my head I would say its at least 4 times faster to get reaper xp if you tr, than if you stay at cap. Perhaps even greater than 5x given that after day 1 and 2, once I ran out of first time bonuses at cap, it drastically slowed down. To be frank, the reaper xp sucked at cap. If this isn't a penalty for staying at cap, I don't know what is. Especially now that we know we get -20% for even 1 lvl over.

There should be a special type of reaper xp bonus that applies only to lvl 30s (similar to how ONLY lvl 30s can get seeds for instance) to at least make things equal (not even considering that we have to do the same few quests over and over and over and over at cap too to get reaper xp - how many lvl 30 quests are there (in order to not get reaper over leveling xp penalty) and do they really give sufficient xp for the time spent, when compared to "long" heroic quests which aren't long at all since they take 10-15 min)

[Cordovan]

If base quest level is 12 and elite is 14

- The way it is working now is you have to be 12 to get full xp
- The way Cordo/Sev BELIEVE it is working is that you can be 14 and get full xp

That's why you're getting a headache. The devs don't realize that on live it's not working the way they're describing to us here.

It's kinda like back in old school EverQuest where it took years for the developers to finally admit that Alchemy was not in fact working. They never bothered to test anything on the live servers. They simply never played on them. They'd make builds internally and on their internal builds it worked but on the live builds it did not.

Same thing going on here I imagine. The private developer build has it working properly and they just assume it's working that way on live as well.

It makes sense too because Cordovan was telling us in another thread that you can get decent reaper XP at level cap. That might be true on their internal dev build but on live you have to TR if you want to farm RxP at an efficient pace. A good group can clear 30~50k+ reaper XP a day (if not more) on a TR train. That same group at level cap might be able to get 7k or so tops.

We are aware that the Reaper XP penalty is based off of the non-adjusted Base level of the quest or raid. There has been confusion over the issue, but we're all on the same page now (at least I think so). We are taking a look at people's feedback, but it's too early to say whether any adjustments will be made in the future. We are also looking at some discrepancies being reported involving Reaper XP in Epic level quests, and will be most likely working on a patch to correct this as soon as we can get it out.

[Vanhooger]

For the record, there is no comparison on reaper xp gain between heroic and cap. Heroic is easily 4+ x faster.

For the first 3-4 days after the update I played my (nearly) triple completionist at cap, earning 30k reaper xp, but it was mainly obtained in the first couple days, as after that, there was no first time bonus. So I'd say It was extremely slow to get reaper xp in the 3rd and 4th day. So slow that I TR'd even though I get no benefit other than reaper xp. In the next 3 days I obtained so much reaper xp, there is no comparison. Off the top of my head I would say its at least 4 times faster to get reaper xp if you tr, than if you stay at cap. Perhaps even greater than 5x given that after day 1 and 2, once I ran out of first time bonuses at cap. To be frank, the reaper xp sucked at cap. If this isn't a penalty for staying at cap, I don't know what is. Especially now that we know we get -20% for even 1 lvl over.

There should be a special type of reaper xp bonus that applies only to lvl 30s (similar to how ONLY lvl 30s can get seeds for instance) to at least make things equal (not even considering that we have to do the same few quests over and over and over and over at cap too to get reaper xp - how many quests are there that are lvl 30 so we don't have a reaper xp penalty and are they giving sufficient xp for the time spent, when compared to "long" heroic quests which aren't long at all??

[Sarcasm] You know, level cap and massive xp penalties was a good thing.

Staying at cap s***k so much that everyone is doing TR, but I guess that was the plan from the Dev's so nothing to see here from them.

[mikarddo]

Our group started off running .

The system is fine for static groups - as you write "our group ..."

The problem is that it makes ad hoc grouping much harder exactly because its using a different system from the BB range +2 thats the current norm.

I have formed a static group to run once a week - but that does not make me blind to others playing without the benefit of such a static group. In your comments you thus seem to ignore the problem which isnt if its hard or not - but if it makes forming ad hoc (pug) groups harder or not.

[Dandonk]

The problem is that it makes ad hoc grouping much harder exactly because its using a different system from the BB range +2 thats the current norm.

I have formed a static group to run once a week - but that does not make me blind to others playing without the benefit of such a static group. In your comments you thus seem to ignore the problem which isnt if its hard or not - but if it makes forming ad hoc (pug) groups harder or not.

So much this.

[Yalinaa]

Well you go play with him then as he seems kinda lonely, and are you saying you do not die, omg some people

Right now on a heroic TR, as a lot of people.

[MistaMagic]

The system is fine for static groups - as you write "our group ..."

The problem is that it makes ad hoc grouping much harder exactly because its using a different system from the BB range +2 thats the current norm.

I have formed a static group to run once a week - but that does not make me blind to others playing without the benefit of such a static group. In your comments you thus seem to ignore the problem which isnt if its hard or not - but if it makes forming ad hoc (pug) groups harder or not.

Well if you count OUR GROUP as 2 people and an assortment of 4 other players then yes

[DANTEIL]

I think we've discovered that the REAL Reaper challenge is trying to understand the math & logic behind it. This thread makes my head hurt.

[mikarddo]

We are aware that the Reaper XP penalty is based off of the non-adjusted Base level of the quest or raid. There has been confusion over the issue, but we're all on the same page now (at least I think so). We are taking a look at people's feedback, but it's too early to say whether any adjustments will be made in the future. We are also looking at some discrepancies being reported involving Reaper XP in Epic level quests, and will be most likely working on a patch to correct this as soon as we can get it out.

We may be on the same page wrt which level its based on - even if some of us dont like it.
But we are still not on the same page wrt the penalty being multiplicative or additive - which is extremely important. A 50% multiplicative penalty is the equivalent of a 200% additive penalty in the most extreme cases (Bravery Bonus runs) so the 50% supposedly additive penalty is often effectively a 200% penalty instead!

Please atleast acknowledge that Severlins explanation still does not match the in game implementation on this count.

[Vanhooger]

Well you go play with him then as he seems kinda lonely, and are you saying you do not die, omg some people

This is not about who is stronger/better or do harder skull, nothing to do with it.

The thing is I run static group, but I can't expect them to be there every time I want to play, you know they got lives, family, work.

If I log in in my launch break and want to run few quest just to relax a bit, but instead got frustrated as there is only 3 people at your level, so logging out and not playing is probably the best choice.

[zehnvhex]

We are aware that the Reaper XP penalty is based off of the non-adjusted Base level of the quest or raid. There has been confusion over the issue, but we're all on the same page now (at least I think so). We are taking a look at people's feedback, but it's too early to say whether any adjustments will be made in the future. We are also looking at some discrepancies being reported involving Reaper XP in Epic level quests, and will be most likely working on a patch to correct this as soon as we can get it out.

Can we get an official statement then one way or the other? The OP still just says "base", you and Sev have both posted that it's supposed to be based on adjusted level (IE: Elite). But then Sev has posted he was wrong but that might be in regards to other things.

Long story short when you guys added reaper XP you maybe didn't realize that a lot of people have a 'completionist' attitude. The challenge aspect of it doesn't appeal to me. Mobs hitting harder doesn't make it more challenging, just more tedious. For challenge I do speed runs, blindfold runs, etc... Try doing Korthos quests using just audio cue's. The amount of times the puzzle at the end of Stopping the Sahuagin has cost me a run makes me sob.

I think you stated there was supposed to be a special boost for level 30 quests that is not currently present so that might be part of the discrepancy as well between what you expected and what we're experiencing. I can get 10k doing Gianthold epic in about 3 hours every TR on R3. There aren't enough quests at level cap to get 10k exp on R3, let alone doing them all in 3 hours.

Anyways...

You've got our attention guys. A lot of veteran and new players are watching what you do next. I've got a lot of folks with 100+ TR's who don't want to do it again ready to burn out because of this. You created a system that encourages/demands grouping but makes it harder to do so.

Honestly I hope you guys have mentoring in the works because that would be an amazing solution. Add on top of that some way to make reaper exp account wide (maybe make it so that reaper exp can only be earned by characters on a second life to deal with people who would iconic dump).

Man, thinking of that just makes me happy deep down inside.

[Vanhooger]

You created a system that encourages/demands grouping but makes it harder to do so.

This.

[zehnvhex]

There should be a special type of reaper xp bonus that applies only to lvl 30s

I'm 60% sure one of the devs has said that there was supposed to be. I'm too lazy to look it up but I'm fairly certain they said a few days/weeks ago that people at level 30 would be able to get RxP as fast/if not faster then people on a TR train because of the lvl 30+ bonus.

[Roland_D'Arabel]

Can we get an official statement then one way or the other? The OP still just says "base", you and Sev have both posted that it's supposed to be based on adjusted level (IE: Elite). But then Sev has posted he was wrong but that might be in regards to other things.

Exactly. Can we please get a statement that is plain and simple telling us what is WAI instead of vaguely worded statements not committing to anything.

I'm 60% sure one of the devs has said that there was supposed to be. I'm too lazy to look it up but I'm fairly certain they said a few days/weeks ago that people at level 30 would be able to get RxP as fast/if not faster then people on a TR train because of the lvl 30+ bonus.

Yes, but the problem with this is that there have been so many incorrect statements made no one knows what to believe.

[zehnvhex]

Here we go:

Although level 30+ quests give a proportionally higher amount of Reaper XP, we are aware that the high first time bonus makes it attractive to do Reaper as part of a TR even though ultimately the higher level quests give more XP. We are gathering data on the XP gains now that Reaper is live. Our initial tests internally show that the best Reaper XP per minute is still running the cap dungeons as they come off ransack, but if we see a difference in the live data we can give some kind of Reaper XP bonus to cap dungeons.

Sev~

This is what makes me believe that there's a larger bonus to cap quests internally then on live servers. On live it's not even close. Running GH at epic with first run bonuses is 10K RxP in about 3 hours, and that's just -one- quest series in a group full of pugs. The Dreaming Dark series is another incredibly easy chain of quests for 2k RxP a pop. Skip the last one and that's 8k exp in about 2 hours.

There is no combination of quests 'off ransack' you can run at level cap that comes near close to that kind of return.

[zehnvhex]

This reminds me a lot of what happened in WoW with PvP. For the longest time the only people interested in PvP were PvPers. Then Blizzard added achievements, faction, BiS items, dailies and all sorts of stuff to it so people had a 'reason' to do PvP beyond just the love of PvP.

This was in hindsight probably one of the worst things they could have done because they never accounted for the "I'm going to do something I hate for something I don't need just because it exist" mentality. MMO players are very simple creatures. You put a ladder in front of them and they just have to climb it. Not everyone enjoys PvP but nearly everyone wants to climb those ladders. So suddenly you had a huge influx of people doing PvP (good!) that hated it (bad!) and it just created bitterness all around.

The argument, "Well you don't have to..." doesn't hold water because yes, we have to. It's part of our nature, it's why we play these video games.

So likewise with reaper you have a lot of people feeling compelled to do something they don't want to (TR) for something they don't really need (reaper xp) just because it is there and resenting the devs for it. I'm not advocating removing it. Cats out of the bag. But things like mentoring, level cap bonuses, account wide reaper XP and so forth would go a long way to alleviating the pain.

[Krell]

For the record, there is no comparison on reaper xp gain between heroic and cap. Heroic is easily 4+ x faster.

For the first 3-4 days after the update I played my (nearly) triple completionist at cap, earning 30k reaper xp, but it was mainly obtained in the first couple days, as after that, there was no first time bonus. So I'd say It was extremely slow to get reaper xp in the 3rd and 4th day - so slow that I TR'd even though I get NO BENEFIT other than reaper xp. In the next 3 days I obtained so much reaper xp, there is no comparison. Off the top of my head I would say its at least 4 times faster to get reaper xp if you tr, than if you stay at cap. Perhaps even greater than 5x given that after day 1 and 2, once I ran out of first time bonuses at cap, it drastically slowed down. To be frank, the reaper xp sucked at cap. If this isn't a penalty for staying at cap, I don't know what is. Especially now that we know we get -20% for even 1 lvl over.

There should be a special type of reaper xp bonus that applies only to lvl 30s (similar to how ONLY lvl 30s can get seeds for instance) to at least make things equal (not even considering that we have to do the same few quests over and over and over and over at cap too to get reaper xp - how many lvl 30 quests are there (in order to not get reaper over leveling xp penalty) and do they really give sufficient xp for the time spent, when compared to "long" heroic quests which aren't long at all since they take 10-15 min)

Agreed. Heroic quest completion time and first time bonus far exceeds what you can get at cap. Planned quest length modifiers alone won't change that since they apply to both heroic and epic and may actually help heroic rXP. TR and at cap play styles should have roughly equal progression if you want the most players to feel rewarded with new system.