Reaper is a complete fail

[slarden]

A year later seeing how everything played out.

Reaper trees are as bad as everyone warned SSG they would be mostly due to the hp and the bonus regular xp. Reaper itself is good, nobody would care about the cheese tactics if not for the reaper tree.

[goodspeed]

Here is the irony of this thread.
Reapers are easy to plan for and at r-1 or 2 doable for solo
I like reapers because you get 1 and at the most 2 at a time.

Reapers should not kill you.

Champions kill you. why?

Because unlike reapers who are added (1 or 2) usually,
Champions are a percentage chance - meaning if there is a
mass of 10 trash kobalds in a spot, on reaper level your likely
to have HALF (5) spawn as champions and your party is dead in seconds.

If your in reaper levels, champions should be disabled

Having a random chance of instant kill is not a challenge, it is just punishment for playing.

lol reaper? Those crown crackheads deck you on hard if they get the drop. And god forbid that jacked up speed bug suddenly takes effect and those things run 3 times faster then a barb with runspeed boost. Throw in a smidge of lag from whatever they're doing to the server that day and you've got a ko. Stupid flippn pcp mobs.

[deredriel]

i don't think that reaper is a fail. As many things, it need adjust.
low level reaper 1/3 First, many players can play low levels reaper in solo if correctly gear and if they know the quests, often it's a matter of time and play style . for others players a group is needed but it's a mmo. And if players are too newbies or with bad gear or first life etc, they need to learn as we have learnt. if i remember my first months in ddo oh my god! it was a pity. even hard was hard.
for middle level reaper 4/6/7 i can't solo or it take me a long time (cc and no dps) but i know power players who solo it and for me it's a way to improve my game and learn how running it. Many are friendly. And if i need to group , it's fine,if i need a healer it's fine too it's a mmo. it take me more time to fill my reaper tree, it's not a race.
for hight level reaper we need to group, to have good players, to heal each others but it's a challenge and as all challenges, it's more or less challenging depending of the group; the reapers, the champs, the players etc.
Often when i run a quest in r1/3, i put a lfg. if newbies joigned, they need to ask questions, to tell me they are newbies in reapers or with a new toon etc, to listen advices. When i run hight level reaper in a group i tell to the leader i'm not a powerfull player and what he can expect from me. And when i forget that i die and it's my bad. if the leader think i 'm not good enough to help in hight reaper, it's not the end of the world, just i need to be better or to change my build. i remember when in my DDO , people could see how your toon was gear etc, it was harder to group in elite when i was new in this game.
Now if we talk about reaper trees, the impact of core in quests not in reaper etc, if we talk about the improved difficulties to find group not in reaper for those who don't like reaper or too new at the game to run it, it's something else, it's depend the politic ssg want for the game and there is matter to tell, sure.
Actually it 's a way to improve my way of playing and i like reaper.
valdomir

[Pyed-Pyper]

There must be some criteria for judging. What were the goals again?

Reaper Difficulty offers a new challenge for the toughest adventurers!
-SSG

Players had other ideas about what the goals of reaper were supposed to be, such as:

• new end-game
• challenge
• grouping

Did I miss any?


People achieved Reaper 10 completions on Day 1. (fail)

Reaper isn't an 'end-game' as people typically classify 'end-game'. (fail)
Massive power creep invalidates challenge and older content. (fail)
Level lockouts, XP incentives/penalties, and 10 additional difficulty settings all work against grouping. (fail)

From a gaming perspective, Reaper reduces the variety of build options, rewards "cheesy" tactics, invalidates at least one gaming style completely, and generally acts as a reductive force against the rich palette of gaming experience previously offered by DDO, not to mention, of course, DDO's namesake. (fail)

And didn't one of the dev's indicate recently that Reaper tree power is now being used in consideration of to-be-introduced content? I think I remember reading that. So much for Reaper being an 'optional' choice. (fail)

But!

Reaper introduced a new way to recycle old content at the cost of further marginalizing the play value of that content. And, allegedly, a few power-gamers returned to enjoy the sugar-rush of the power grind. All in all, I'd guess SSG considers Reaper to be a thumping success. After all, if you are grinding RXP, then Reaper must be a success.

[mikarddo]

Reaper to me is mostly a success. The main reason being that it promotes healing each other in a group rather than everyone healing themselves.

Certainly, some things could and should have been done differently but for me the pros certainly outweights the cons.

[FiendishCrusher]

And, allegedly, a few power-gamers returned to enjoy the sugar-rush of the power grind.

Is it still a success if more people quit because the same reason?

[Kaboom2112]

Reaper to me is mostly a success. The main reason being that it promotes healing each other in a group rather than everyone healing themselves.

This is the thing I actually dislike the most. Especially since it doesn't happen except in high skull. In low to mid skull people just heal themselves slower or build taking advantage of borderline broken mechanics like stacking scroll mastery with a ton of healing amplification.

Aasimar lay on hands for any class does the same.

I used to be a big fan of Bladeforged but now they're an endangered species.

The rest of reaper is pretty cool though. You'd still want healers in higher skulls even if the self healing penalty didn't exist.

Regarding the reaper enhancements, everyone who said it was a bad idea is right but this isn't going to change.

[masterofthewand]

This is the thing I actually dislike the most. Especially since it doesn't happen except in high skull. In low to mid skull people just heal themselves slower or build taking advantage of borderline broken mechanics like stacking scroll mastery with a ton of healing amplification.

Aasimar lay on hands for any class does the same.

I used to be a big fan of Bladeforged but now they're and endangered species.

The rest of reaper is pretty cool though. You'd still want healers in higher skulls even if the self healing penalty didn't exist.

Regarding the reaper enhancements, everyone who said it was a bad idea is right but this isn't going to change.

I agree with everything said here. However if they're not going to do the right thing and remove the trees entirely than they need to be reduced overall and removed from heroic completely. once that's done drop the name reaper trees and replace with the name legendary trees. the concept of "reaper trees" is not good... it makes the game feel cheesy...

[grandeibra]

There must be some criteria for judging. What were the goals again?




Players had other ideas about what the goals of reaper were supposed to be, such as:


Did I miss any?


People achieved Reaper 10 completions on Day 1. (fail)

Reaper isn't an 'end-game' as people typically classify 'end-game'. (fail)
Massive power creep invalidates challenge and older content. (fail)
Level lockouts, XP incentives/penalties, and 10 additional difficulty settings all work against grouping. (fail)

From a gaming perspective, Reaper reduces the variety of build options, rewards "cheesy" tactics, invalidates at least one gaming style completely, and generally acts as a reductive force against the rich palette of gaming experience previously offered by DDO, not to mention, of course, DDO's namesake. (fail)

And didn't one of the dev's indicate recently that Reaper tree power is now being used in consideration of to-be-introduced content? I think I remember reading that. So much for Reaper being an 'optional' choice. (fail)

But!

Reaper introduced a new way to recycle old content at the cost of further marginalizing the play value of that content. And, allegedly, a few power-gamers returned to enjoy the sugar-rush of the power grind. All in all, I'd guess SSG considers Reaper to be a thumping success. After all, if you are grinding RXP, then Reaper must be a success.

Disagree with every single bitter word of that post. In fact quite a few of the points have the polar opposite effect of what the poster claims. Personally I love reaper. I have some misgivings but not the ones this poster harps on.

[hit_fido]

I'm fairly casual but I still like reaper mode. The fact that playing some reaper can help make a character better overall through the trees and the way some bonuses apply across all difficulties is a big positive to me. R1/R2 solo is fun and R3/R4 in some groups is a different experience than previously available. It's expanded the breadth of choices available for how to play DDO.

The thing that sticks out the most as bad design is temp hp not being subject to the same penalty as self healing.

[Vorachtin]

Reaper is great, pretty much the only reason I still play.

[Kza]

I'm fairly casual but I still like reaper mode. The fact that playing some reaper can help make a character better overall through the trees and the way some bonuses apply across all difficulties is a big positive to me. R1/R2 solo is fun and R3/R4 in some groups is a different experience than previously available. It's expanded the breadth of choices available for how to play DDO.

The thing that sticks out the most as bad design is temp hp not being subject to the same penalty as self healing.

Agree 100%

[goodspeed]

This is the thing I actually dislike the most. Especially since it doesn't happen except in high skull. In low to mid skull people just heal themselves slower or build taking advantage of borderline broken mechanics like stacking scroll mastery with a ton of healing amplification.

Aasimar lay on hands for any class does the same.

I used to be a big fan of Bladeforged but now they're an endangered species.

The rest of reaper is pretty cool though. You'd still want healers in higher skulls even if the self healing penalty didn't exist.

Regarding the reaper enhancements, everyone who said it was a bad idea is right but this isn't going to change.

You kidding those things can heal for a crapload stacking repair amp. In fact for a warlock level drain was the only thing holding me back so I went robot to farm my 10 10's. Wand and scroll mastery with unlimited temp hp? Hellz to the yes!

[Pyed-Pyper]

Is it still a success if more people quit because the same reason?

Until the whales shake off that pavlovian grinding, yes.

[Kaboom2112]

You kidding those things can heal for a crapload stacking repair amp. In fact for a warlock level drain was the only thing holding me back so I went robot to farm my 10 10's. Wand and scroll mastery with unlimited temp hp? Hellz to the yes!

I apologize for not being clear. I meant BF melee. Casters can get enough spell power for it to work out.

How much can you get on a melee? Serious question.

[Whitering]

I, as a pally in my last life, would occasionally back out of fights to become...what? a healer? With my decent lay on hands, but mediocre cure serious, sometimes yanking out my heal scrolls. That was in R5 6 stuff though where I did not feel my damage was worth a **** (that's for that SSG, pally damage sucks to start with, goes down as you get higher Reaper, become the worst cleric ever).

In most fights though, what am I supposed to do, drag the UI healthbars over to the very middle of my screen so I can't see the mobs? Worry more about health than damage? Put heal scrolls 1 in instead of cleave or whatever?

I get the self healing nerf, there'd have to be reaper 20 or 30 with no healing nerf. I don't quite get the melee damage nerf, but whatever. And yes, most players are not used to watching other people's health bars, that's just the way it is, back in the days when Clerics did matter they were still a small % of the player base.

[FiendishCrusher]

Melee lol, people still play those?

[goodspeed]

I apologize for not being clear. I meant BF melee. Casters can get enough spell power for it to work out.

How much can you get on a melee? Serious question.

At lv 13 You should be able to get about 120ish? Ya should be about that in the head slot. Every one of my melee wear that circlet. Before that probably 70 or so with random gen on a ring. Though thats not adding in the drinkable stuff like +15 or 20 pots, along with stacking repair amp from by far and away the best chest piece in heroic. http://m.ddowiki.com/page/Item:Heartwood

An extra 40 taking the recon sla in the blade tree. Theirs another stacking 50 amp if your kensai and drink any pot, an extra 30 if your a follower of onatar. More power from the skills. Add in the crit% to make those high numbers fly and even with decreased healing my pally had no problems soloing. I mean it's not gonna solo heal you in an r6 or 8 but thats more ridiculous ac and multiple forms of not being hit at all then heals and sucking up dmg.

Its actually doubley better as a mage or someone with the recon spell because they're on seperate timers. Built a shirardi wizard like a brick wall with 2 recons at the ready. He was fun in raids.

Though lately I like my barb more even though theirs that annoying no cast while raged. But if they took it away along with alignment **** I would totally go blade forged barb.

[slarden]

At lv 13 You should be able to get about 120ish? Ya should be about that in the head slot. Every one of my melee wear that circlet. Before that probably 70 or so with random gen on a ring. Though thats not adding in the drinkable stuff like +15 or 20 pots, along with stacking repair amp from by far and away the best chest piece in heroic. http://m.ddowiki.com/page/Item:Heartwood

An extra 40 taking the recon sla in the blade tree. Theirs another stacking 50 amp if your kensai and drink any pot, an extra 30 if your a follower of onatar. More power from the skills. Add in the crit% to make those high numbers fly and even with decreased healing my pally had no problems soloing. I mean it's not gonna solo heal you in an r6 or 8 but thats more ridiculous ac and multiple forms of not being hit at all then heals and sucking up dmg.

Its actually doubley better as a mage or someone with the recon spell because they're on seperate timers. Built a shirardi wizard like a brick wall with 2 recons at the ready. He was fun in raids.

Though lately I like my barb more even though theirs that annoying no cast while raged. But if they took it away along with alignment **** I would totally go blade forged barb.

Bladeforged start at 15 (or 14 if you want to bank xp) so they can use the heartwood you pointed out and also the circlet which gives 102 spellpower by itself plus the sla cost reducgtion. BF have repair amp right in their tree on the way to get the repair sla. You can put repair amp on the suffix of gloves and add a repair lore item for good measure. Slot a spellpower gem in your weapon and get an implement bonus for more spellpower. 30 available from BF past lifes.l

Yes it takes up slots, but not having those things can hurt your dps by having to leave fights, etc. At level 30 my reconstruct heals for over 800 on r3 and close to 2000 on a crit.

The only advantage casters get is any universal spellpower in their tree and of course they likely will slot things like pansophic circlet and spinneret anyhow so it's not taking up an extra gear slot. But there is very little difference in potential spellpower.

[Dalsheel]

stacking repair amp from by far and away the best chest piece in heroic. http://m.ddowiki.com/page/Item:Heartwood

You missclicked the link I think. You probably meant to link: Entropic Heartstone