Reaper is a complete fail

[Ellihor]

It's not a problem because they are doing what's meant to be done in a game: Having fun

The problem is that he is TRing because he isn't finding fun in endgame. That's one of the reasons. Let's be real the main reason he's TRing is to get reaper xp. If heroics had reaper avaliable but the XP paid was 0, I doubt he would be TRing his 208 plives so much. Wouldn't doubt doing a couple for LOLz, but hardly he would be doing that back to back. Okay, you're going to say I'm wrong and I can't speak for him, wathever, you all know this is true.

If implementation was as the snowflakes at cap wanted it, and only lvl 30s could play it, I'd bet you'd be here singing the praises of that implementation, and deriding anyone that claimed it should have been any other way, right?

Nobody asked for reaper xp. If they didn't implement that it would surely be better.

[nokowi]

If implementation was as the snowflakes at cap wanted it, and only lvl 30s could play it

I love people on the forums that speak for the motivations of others.

Always a complete failure.

Congrats Robert the Bard!

[Jasparion]

When I was in the TR grind I could do 1-20 in 2 days. But please be aware that my 208 past lives is a mixture of heroic, iconic and epic. My heroic past lives is only 117.
As a sub note, with reaper out, I can do 15-30 in under 2 days ( a full weekend grind with 30%pot running). If you run like that, you will have to skip a lot of content. I did not touch GH until epic levels and when I did, I ran 5-7 skulls through all of GH and I max out my xp before I completed ToR. Great reaper do in GH 1.5k per quest. When I left for vacation on Feb 13th, I had 177k. I will be back to the grind when I get home on the 24th.
Also, I do agree with people when they said reaper XP did not have to be apart of this update, but I do enjoy the little power that is adds and hoping to be upping my game to reaper 6-8 in the next month or so.

What sort of builds and groups are you running to get efficient levelling out of Reaper +5? We are only doing +1 or +2 because anything beyond that really slows us down (my Sorc which was never designed for Reaper seems to do great at +1, not so much +2, then struggles at +3).

[slarden]

So you have 208 past lives and since the update you TRed 3 times already, and going to do some more? Funny how despite getting nothing from TRing you are doing it more frequently since the update and don't want to stay at cap. I don't know how do you think this is an argument about the implementation not having a problem.

Your error is making an assumption that Tring is a problem in the first place. The only way to run all quests at level is to TR and with or without the trees that was always my plan.

The important thing to note from his post is how much fun he is having. Funny how the only people that don't seem to be having fun are the people on the forums complaining that other people TR'd. Having fun is a personal responsibility and not the dev's responsibility. No matter what they do they can't make chronically unhappy people suddenly happy.

[slarden]

You made me laugh, thanks.

It's about time I return the favor!

[Airmaiden]

I TR all the time, I have all the gear I need for level 30 end game, so why stay there! I enjoy TR'ing, trying new builds and playing a lot of different quests.
I like to play lower level content and helping new players.
When I get named loot (unbound) I save it and give it all to Ginger for his give always and games.
Some people ask "why don't I just start a new toon"......... well, I have 41 toons on my main account ( 2 are triple completionist and one is just a single+ completionist. I have about 6 other toons that just have a few lives on them. Some people might know me as Firegoddess, airmaiden, islayu, icutu, or ibeatu. I always keep at least 3 toons at 30 , and I am normally working on a couple TR's.
I enjoy this game a lot as you can see. But , for those of you that know me, you know my moto is "it's just a game" . I give away more items, platinum and my time helping others because of that moto.
If I ever stopped TR'ing, it would be because I have decided to leave the game. But, now with the reaper challenges and xp grind (along with the rare chance to get reaper items ) I am sure I will be here for a long time .
See you all back in the game on the 24th. Looking forward to playing again!

[McFlay]

The problem is that he is TRing because he isn't finding fun in endgame. That's one of the reasons. Let's be real the main reason he's TRing is to get reaper xp. If heroics had reaper avaliable but the XP paid was 0, I doubt he would be TRing his 208 plives so much. Wouldn't doubt doing a couple for LOLz, but hardly he would be doing that back to back. Okay, you're going to say I'm wrong and I can't speak for him, wathever, you all know this is true.

Its better to have fun things to do that aren't "endgame" rather than people just leaving. DDO end game has always been a joke...its always just been the handful of quests with the best gear people want to farm. Its never going to grow because when we get new quests with better loot current "endgame" loses its endgame status. Why is it bad to give people more incentive to do more than farm the same 10 quests over and over til their eyes bleed? We have hundreds of quests in this game...I'm glad the devs finally gave some of the older forgotten content a little attention, it was way overdue.

[McFlay]

I TR all the time, I have all the gear I need for level 30 end game, so why stay there! I enjoy TR'ing, trying new builds and playing a lot of different quests.
I like to play lower level content and helping new players.

Ditto. Realistically even if you don't have a few pieces of gear...what do you need it for in a pve game? It will...let you more efficiently farm the same quests you are already farming? Its simply much more fun for me to play different builds with different people and enjoy a large variety of content rather than farming the same quests into the ground trying to get some gear I don't really have any use for. I used to spend more time farming high level stuff when 20 was cap and you'd get level 11-13 gear(actually useful for tr'ing) from shroud or most other raids and xp'ing was a lot harder...but the way it is now I'm just not motivated to farm for gear I might not be able to use til level 28(which makes it near useless for leveling)...especially when xp'ing is so easy with xp decay.

[nokowi]

Its better to have fun things to do that aren't "endgame" rather than people just leaving.

The choice was not endgame or not endgame.

You have to be able to combine 2 or more concepts, since it is not a one or the other choice.

DDO end game has always been a joke...its always just been the handful of quests with the best gear people want to farm.

So in your opinion, this portion of the game is weak, and you cant understand why players would ask for improvement?



When cap was 20, it was a place I could always meet up with the players I enjoyed. There was always a "leader", those that generally made sure the runs went well and that everyone had a good time. Those that gave a poor experience had trouble filling their LFM's. Over time, I always new which groups to join and had a blast. It made it really easy to make new friends.

Your experience was obviously different at 20 - I believe you said you hated it. Maybe you could explain what was so awful for you at 20 cap.

Our differing preferences shows why separate design is beneficial.

[RoberttheBard]

I love people on the forums that speak for the motivations of others.

Always a complete failure.

Congrats Robert the Bard!

Except that you have been in every topic that even mentions Reaper insisting what, again? That RXP only be at cap, right? Because people aren't playing in such a way as to include you, they're doing wrong, or are invalid numbers, as in another thread where you claim 6-7% of people at cap would "fix" the game, except when presented with those exact numbers you waffled to "oh, those guys are only on to TR"...

Congratulations?

[Vanhooger]

It's about time I return the favor!

Nice, happy you have fun.

[Ellihor]

Your error is making an assumption that Tring is a problem in the first place. The only way to run all quests at level is to TR and with or without the trees that was always my plan.

That was not the issue. The issue is that staying at cap is not fun because

A- you can't find groups
B- you are beating yourself with a stick thanks to the trees implementation. This only contributes even more for point A.

The important thing to note from his post is how much fun he is having.

Too bad that is not working for the lv 30 crowd. Do you see the problem? All what we can do is to voice our problems in the forums.

All what I see here is people who don't care about endgame insulting endgame players for voicing their concerns, it all comes down to "suck it buttercup". That is plain trolling.

That said, I've spent 90% of my time in game doing TR since the update, and I had fun with it. It does not mean I wish to keep TRing. I prefer to play at cap, but the current system is destroying that playstyle.

[Ellihor]

Its better to have fun things to do that aren't "endgame" rather than people just leaving. DDO end game has always been a joke...its always just been the handful of quests with the best gear people want to farm. Its never going to grow because when we get new quests with better loot current "endgame" loses its endgame status. Why is it bad to give people more incentive to do more than farm the same 10 quests over and over til their eyes bleed? We have hundreds of quests in this game...I'm glad the devs finally gave some of the older forgotten content a little attention, it was way overdue.

In other words what your saying is: suck it up buttercup, and I'm glad for it.

[Vanhooger]

That was not the issue. The issue is that staying at cap is not fun because

A- you can't find groups
B- you are beating yourself with a stick thanks to the trees implementation. This only contributes even more for point A.



Too bad that is not working for the lv 30 crowd. Do you see the problem? All what we can do is to voice our problems in the forums.

All what I see here is people who don't care about endgame insulting endgame players for voicing their concerns, it all comes down to "suck it buttercup". That is plain trolling.

That said, I've spent 90% of my time in game doing TR since the update, and I had fun with it. It does not mean I wish to keep TRing. I prefer to play at cap, but the current system is destroying that playstyle.

Don't waste your time replying him, he will tell you everything is fine and you want easier xp doing easy r10 stuff, instead of very hard stuff on r1 in 2 min with a warlock, and if you like stay at cap, tr. If you don't want to tr, it's your problem, rEaper isn't meant to entertain endgamers, it's only meant for who like to tr.

Edit: I had to edit the post because I wrote "intsted" but meant "instead", you never know someone will call the police for that.
Edit2: Corrected another typo.
Edit3: I made sure I typed reaper properly.

[Skunkhunt42]

His goal is ruin the game, he don't care about endgame.

He just care to crush r1 harbor with his borelock.

[slarden]

That was not the issue. The issue is that staying at cap is not fun because

A- you can't find groups
B- you are beating yourself with a stick thanks to the trees implementation. This only contributes even more for point A.

Too bad that is not working for the lv 30 crowd. Do you see the problem? All what we can do is to voice our problems in the forums.

All what I see here is people who don't care about endgame insulting endgame players for voicing their concerns, it all comes down to "suck it buttercup". That is plain trolling.

That said, I've spent 90% of my time in game doing TR since the update, and I had fun with it. It does not mean I wish to keep TRing. I prefer to play at cap, but the current system is destroying that playstyle.

As I said before I don't care for the trees, but they are there and are going to stay and I accept it.

I am not sure what "Level 30 crowd" even means. Many of the people, including myself, that are Tr'ing to enjoy all the old content on reaper spent significant time at level 30 and may even have alts at cap to raid, run with friends, etc. 5 of my 6 main characters are at cap and the only reason I am not running any level 30 content at the moment is because I am extremely busy - with only about 12 hours of play time total since reaper came out so I have been prioritizing two-manning 3-5 skull reaper with a real life friend since it's new and he prefers not to group.

I would consider myself an end game player that isn't super interested in TR for past life as I have 1 triple completionist, 3 other heroic completionists having all 36 epic past lifes, all 15 iconic past lifes and the important heroic lifes for the builds (by virtue of the easy iconic lifes). If anyone was ready for just end game activities it was me after I was on a TR train from 2010 to early 2016.

Aside from what I want - the theme of heroic not being challenging enough has been a far more common topic on these forums than end game so this is likely why the devs went this direction. Even many of the people complaining they only want to run 30 were quick to point out that there was more than level 30 in various nerf threads where certain builds were considered balanced at 30 and out of balance at heroic level. Now it turns out those same people don't even want to run heroic levels lol the irony.

From my perspective the whine level has been excessive for reaper and that is not trolling - just my observation. Most people are happily plodding along thankful the devs created reaper. To me all these complaints about social problems and grouping problems are a simple tactic to get more rxp at level 30 cap which is basically asking for it to be easier. I heard one reasonable suggestion on that which was to replace reaper first time and BB bonus with an equivalent daily bonus that applied only to reaper. That way whether someone TR or stay at cap they are getting roughly the same rxp (once the fix today is applied and quests no longer use heroic multipliers for epic/legendary quests and the quest length multiplier is applied).

His goal is ruin the game, he don't care about endgame.

He just care to crush r1 harbor with his borelock.

For the past year + I have only TRd to change builds and some of those times I used heroic boxes to get back to 30 as quick as possible to run raids. I ran over 1000 raids at level 30 in the past year.

I only ran R1 once to try it to compare it to R5, R4, R3 and elite and that was after I already ran it on R5 and R3.

I am not currently running a warlock on my main randowl. I am running a melee cleric/rogue to handle traps and throw some heals to my friend. All the things people say is weaksauce - cleric, rogue, fleshy, melee and it's crushing low level 3-5 skull reaper as easily as a warlock would. With our two-man we wipe about 1 in 5 quests on R5 when we get overwhelmed by reapers and champs. so we've been running R3 where we never wipe since my friend prefers to run at a level where we never fail. I think each person/group needs to find what level is appropriate and fun. If R1 is right for some people - more power to them I am happy they are having fun and don't care they are getting rxp on an easier difficulty.

[Faltout]

That was not the issue. The issue is that staying at cap is not fun because

A- you can't find groups
B- you are beating yourself with a stick thanks to the trees implementation. This only contributes even more for point A.

You need to decide what you want to do. The way you say it seems like you want it all.
Q: If you like staying at cap, then why do you care about reaper trees?
A: Because I have a completionist attitude
Q: Ok, then if completionist attitude supersedes staying at cap attitude, then why don't you TR and earn take advantage of the 1st time bonus?
A: Because I want both. I want to both stay at cap AND complete everything.

Well, there's your problem. Next think you know, you'll be asking no more classes released because you'll need to complete those too, no new low level quests because they also need to be completed at level, etc. Not that many players haven't asked for those things already...

And why are you saying that "You can't find groups"? In this thread I've seen a number of people that prefer to stay at cap. Aren't all those people partying together? And if there were more people that were staying at cap, what about the people in heroic levels? Don't they also need groups to find?

All what I see here is people who don't care about endgame insulting endgame players for voicing their concerns, it all comes down to "suck it buttercup". That is plain trolling.

No, if you bang your head on the wall and then complain that your head hurts, all we can say is "suck it buttercup". The end game is TRing, not staying at cap. If you keep saying "No, I want to bang my head on the wall!" == "No, I want to stay at cap! That's just how I am", then we are keep going to say "You brought this on yourself".

Q: Are you serious right now? So, you want the players that stay at cap to either change their attitude or leave the game because the game doesn't cater to their needs? Game would be shut down.
A: Well, apparently those players that stayed at cap have been leaving the game for years now. While the players doing TRs have been staying in the game. And apparently, new players have been leaving the game for years now due to not enough action at low levels. DDO caters to some of the end gamers' needs, but if you could be at cap AND complete everything, then noone would play the rest of the game with the rest of the gamers.

[Chai]

The polarization between TR game and endgame is mythology that only exists on the forums, and not in game. The TR game doesnt need to suffer to have better endgame.

Another forum myth is that endgame is "farming" while TR isnt. Both are farming for character power.

The third myth here is "older and forgotten content" - with the TR game, none of the content has been forgotten.

The claim that endgame has always been a joke is incorrect. In 2009-2011, DDO had both a good endgame, and a TR game. Most players did both, and there wasnt such a polarized discussion that improving one needed to happen at the cost of the other. The reason why a good endgame existed then is because that era was not structured like what you claim here - that new quests coming out would simply invalidate the previous update. Shroud gear, TOD sets, and specific items from other raids were still desired gear, years after those raids were created.

Shroud: released beginning of 2008 - people still wanted that gear in 2012 pre MOTU
TOD: released 2009 - people still wanted that gear in 2012 pre MOTU
Reaver: released 2007 - people still wanted specific items from it in 2012 pre MOTU (madstone boots, head of good fortune)
DQ/EDQ: 2007 and 2009 - people still want eROSS, Torq,
VON/eVON 2006/2009 - people still want SOS/eSOS, FOM boots,
Titan 2006 - chattering ring was still farmed by AC builds, until AC changes. ML 9 +6str/30HP belt still a good at level item
VOD 2008 - armor sets and goggles still desired in 2012 pre MOTU
HOX - 2008 - armor sets still desired in 2012 pre MOTU

No sir, there once was a time in this game where some loot, even if not BiS gear, was still desired and farmed heavily 3-6 years after the content it dropped in was released. A new update did not invalidate the entire previous update's loot. When people ask for DDO to have a good endgame, this is what they are asking for, something that resembles this era. The TR game is strong because what is farmed by TRing, XP, cant really be invalidated. Thus, it doesnt need as much attention to keep it attracting players.

[Vanhooger]

You need to decide what you want to do. The way you say it seems like you want it all.
Q: If you like staying at cap, then why do you care about reaper trees?
A: Because I have a completionist attitude
Q: Ok, then if completionist attitude supersedes staying at cap attitude, then why don't you TR and earn take advantage of the 1st time bonus?
A: Because I want both. I want to both stay at cap AND complete everything.

Well, there's your problem. Next think you know, you'll be asking no more classes released because you'll need to complete those too, no new low level quests because they also need to be completed at level, etc. Not that many players haven't asked for those things already...

And why are you saying that "You can't find groups"? In this thread I've seen a number of people that prefer to stay at cap. Aren't all those people partying together? And if there were more people that were staying at cap, what about the people in heroic levels? Don't they also need groups to find?


No, if you bang your head on the wall and then complain that your head hurts, all we can say is "suck it buttercup". The end game is TRing, not staying at cap. If you keep saying "No, I want to bang my head on the wall!" == "No, I want to stay at cap! That's just how I am", then we are keep going to say "You brought this on yourself".

Q: Are you serious right now? So, you want the players that stay at cap to either change their attitude or leave the game because the game doesn't cater to their needs? Game would be shut down.
A: Well, apparently those players that stayed at cap have been leaving the game for years now. While the players doing TRs have been staying in the game. And apparently, new players have been leaving the game for years now due to not enough action at low levels. DDO caters to some of the end gamers' needs, but if you could be at cap AND complete everything, then noone would play the rest of the game with the rest of the gamers.

Actually the way you complete everything is doing tr.

In one tr you get:

Normal xp.
Way more reaper xp then anyone at cap.
First time bonus resetted.
You get a heroic pL feat.
You get a epic Pl feat or you get a iconic pl.

If you stay at cap you get:

In a 3 week playing r10 you get a quarter of the reaper xp you get in a full tr 1-20 in one week.

To me looks like who is completing everything is the one who is doing tr, not the other way around.

I have made a post few days ago and showed how impossible is to make party at level.

They made reaper to require party but the they restricted the level range even more, that's good isn't it?

[Faltout]

Actually the way you complete everything is doing tr.

In one tr you get:

Normal xp.
Way more reaper xp then anyone at cap.
First time bonus resetted.
You get a heroic pL feat.
You get a epic Pl feat or you get a iconic pl.

If you stay at cap you get:

In a 3 week playing r10 you get a quarter of the reaper xp you get in a full tr 1-20 in one week.

To me looks like who is completing everything is the one who is doing tr, not the other way around.

You don't farm loot
You don't raid in high difficulties.

To me it seems that both the one doing TRs and both the one staying at cap get something, but not all of it.

Unless of course you do both: Stay at cap longer AND TR. Which means you're playing the game in a healthy manner. You won't be getting anything fast (neither past lives, nor best loot), but you'll enjoy the ride.