Tried to post LFMs for lowbie reaper runs, didnt turn out so smooth

[jeremyt]

So, i really really REAAAALLLY struggle trying to put the kid gloves on/be uber nice to everyone. It really is turning a new leaf for me, though it is a struggle. Last two days we have had this new fangled reaper mode. I decide to TR my main toon back to 1 and hit all the reapers i can fit in. All is dandy really, except folks hitting my reaper lfms are coming completely...and i mean completely unprepared. Im getting like 97-100% of the kills making multiple trips back to shrine to raise folks. trying to keep them healed with a healing hire. yadda yadda. in the end i PUG 1 or two quests and take 5-10x longer than norm. split from group and solo 4-5 quests fast just..then repeat.

I would be all for this new teamwork orientated play, strategy, hard/slow questing...but the only dynamic i've really gotten so far is, prepared folks carry completely unprepared folks repeatedly and cannot mention fact they are carrying because its not their business. should i just not LFM it/give up? i tried to get some groupers to wear some gear to improve their chances today and was met with snarky 'ill play my toon' type attitudes. okie dokie, keep sucking completely?

maybe i should zero in on some channels again, the pugs i tried to put together today where disheartening

[Qhualor]

when most groups you see running Reaper, what else is everyone supposed to do? its not easy right now trying to find players that want to play anything that is not Reaper.

[Faltout]

I've PUGed some low level quests today. Some were first lifers, some were experienced veterans. Some were overly cautious and progressed like a snail, some were careless.

Thing is, people are still new to the reaper experience. I bet when the game was new, people were struggling to master it. Same goes for reaper. People right now are used to the existing experience of an easy game. Why try to increase your skill when all you need is a warlock/cleave/fireball? People will rise to the challenge given time. If new players see experienced players taking it slow, applying tactics and thinking creatively to get out of situations, then they will mimic that behavior and improve. And then you'll have your smoother runs.

[Annex]

We are all at the beginning of a Paradigm Shift and it will take time for players to learn, cope, and adapt. Players who cannot do those things will quickly find themselves persona non grata in groups.

When games become hard the skilled players always find one another and the rest watch from the sidelines. It is true on the playground, it is true in sports, and it will be true here.

(I freely admit I suck and will watch from the sidelines as a solo player.)

[askrj1]

Well rek as far as I can tell for lowbie reaper either you solo if you know what you're doing or expect a mess unless you're partying with a more or less stable group that knows what they're doing. There is a lot less resources available at hand and it's also something the newer population really has no idea what to expect so bringing newbies and maybe even moderate players through will likely be a pain. Personally I intend to TR soon to try some low reapers but at this point I'm still not sure what to make of the party experience, at least up to 8 or 9 when stuff starts to take shape and you can maybe at least start rez'ing somewhat.

[jeremyt]

just to clrify i didnt boot anyone all day and accepted all who hit lfm. and your right, if raising folks wasnt such a massive time sink (grab stones/run back to shrine repeatedly) i probably woulda been a lot less vested in my puggers borking repeatedly

ill continue to work on suppressing elitist rage outbursts, but on the flip side offering help/gear advice when a person is obviously failing is usually met with bad attitudes. bringing up a person's toon/build/gear/resources creates a bad group experience, so broaching the reaper preparation to folks seems like an insurmountable task. got tons of people that want to run it, want to hit my reaper LFM but it's still a very taboo subject questioning a toon's preparedness for a quest. you are instantly a bad guy for saying hey dude get some gear on? to the 53 HP lev 5 wiz who wants to run reaper with ya. i need help getting folks excited about getting ready, or maybe it needs to just not be me telling these folks they need to get stuff sorted out at least somewhat before tackling the new hardest of the hard

[askrj1]

Well some people have problems accepting if they're unprepped first lifers they can't handle elite, odds are that they're not going to realise reaper isn't for them either. I hate to say this but lowbie reaper IS elitist content at this point, and while I won't bar people out for being not prepared they should also be ready to accept some advice at least.

[psykopeta]

Grab any 1st lifer, tell him to be ur nanny healer, pay him feat or enhancement respec, pay him the gear to be useful for healing you

Win/win

I'm healing r4 atm in heroics with a 1st lifer bf pally(that created after the bf release, so he took the preset path, awful feats and stats u know) so that new player can do it if the party assumes reaper is not about zerging

[Faltout]

but on the flip side offering help/gear advice when a person is obviously failing is usually met with bad attitudes.

Most people realize when they're failing and want to know why. What you need to do is mention some stuff you carry for quest preparedness in small doses. Like:
- "Ok, monsters in here use scorching ray a lot. Anyone needs fire resist potions?" versus the elitist "You should have ship buffs. You can't survive in this content otherwise." New player will learn that there are those fire resist potions in the marketplace and along with that will also grab some poison neutralization/lesser restoration"
- "This is a hard trap to find. Do you need some heroism potions and a fox's cunning potion?" New player will learn that trapping skills can be boosted significantly by visiting liquid charm in house kundarak.
- "Alright. There's a Carnage Reaper ahead. I happen to have a good CON item and some reaper HP enhancements, so I can take a hit. Let me grab aggro and you heal me because self-healing is penalized" New player will learn that healing others is a necessary party mechanic and that he can also boost his CON by using CON items and how useful HP are.
- "If your DC is not high enough to affect those shamans, maybe you should try charming those fighters. They have a lower will save" New player will learn that different monsters have different tactics.

Basically, you should try telling the new players what they can do, not what they should have done. And they will eventually learn by example. That won't happen soon though and certainly won't happen if vets exclude new players or vets play content so easy to them that they don't need any new players. New players must be needed to rise to their role.

[Amundir]

I started to give suggestions, but then thought about it and I don't pug really any because of the pita that lfms are. So, *shrug*, idk. Best thing I can say is to phrase things as questions and opinions.
I have this *effect* item. Do you have one? I think this would help you do *stuff* if you want it.

Up to you at that point if their reaction is not to your liking to add them to your friends list and add a reason why not to group with them again,

[Talon_Moonshadow]

My experience so far has been just fine.
Granted, I have used a lot of rez scrolls... but I expected that when "the DM is trying to kill you."

I am finding at level, 1 skull with random PUGs to be the most fun I have had in a long time.

[minorpenthes]

I've PUGed some low level quests today. Some were first lifers, some were experienced veterans. Some were overly cautious and progressed like a snail, some were careless.

Thing is, people are still new to the reaper experience. I bet when the game was new, people were struggling to master it. Same goes for reaper. People right now are used to the existing experience of an easy game. Why try to increase your skill when all you need is a warlock/cleave/fireball? People will rise to the challenge given time. If new players see experienced players taking it slow, applying tactics and thinking creatively to get out of situations, then they will mimic that behavior and improve. And then you'll have your smoother runs.

And that touches on a problem: what most new players have seen, for so very long, is experienced players running through dungeons as fast as possible- ignoring traps, not getting breakables (even in quests where it is VERY easy to get the breakables- obviously, if you have to get a few hundred to get ransack, never mind, but if you only need 10 or so, then by all means, get them, especially if you are a bloody warlock). Thus they learn very bad habits for when they play with anyone else besides an überzerger.

Sure, we have all done Korthos a million times, and we know it cold. But come on, to newer players it is still pretty exciting, maybe even challenging.

But when the SOP is to finish a quest in the exact fewest milliseconds, that robs newer players of the fun.

And they leave the game.

I often wonder about the players who try to finish as quickly as possible: does this extend to other aspects of your life, perhaps even to your love life?

(Joke- yes I know you are on xp potions, or your lunch break yadda yadda... and it's ok, because we all should understand that it is all about you, and you are the only one who matters )

[Jasparion]

My experience so far has been just fine.
Granted, I have used a lot of rez scrolls... but I expected that when "the DM is trying to kill you."

I am finding at level, 1 skull with random PUGs to be the most fun I have had in a long time.

My static group tried a bunch of different levels but have settled on Reaper +1 because we still want to actually make it to 30. Higher levels are obviously more of a challenge and more fun to complete, but we take a *LONG* time to get the dungeons done.

[jeremyt]

And that touches on a problem: what most new players have seen, for so very long, is experienced players running through dungeons as fast as possible- ignoring traps, not getting breakables (even in quests where it is VERY easy to get the breakables- obviously, if you have to get a few hundred to get ransack, never mind, but if you only need 10 or so, then by all means, get them, especially if you are a bloody warlock). Thus they learn very bad habits for when they play with anyone else besides an überzerger.

Sure, we have all done Korthos a million times, and we know it cold. But come on, to newer players it is still pretty exciting, maybe even challenging.

But when the SOP is to finish a quest in the exact fewest milliseconds, that robs newer players of the fun.

And they leave the game.

I often wonder about the players who try to finish as quickly as possible: does this extend to other aspects of your life, perhaps even to your love life?

(Joke- yes I know you are on xp potions, or your lunch break yadda yadda... and it's ok, because we all should understand that it is all about you, and you are the only one who matters )

Someone *****ing about people being selfish for not playing their speed? kinda..selfish homie :P

Not sure running things faster/more efficiently is bad play. what your hinting at is the newer folks just running to keep up while more proficient players actually run the quest/do the breakables that make sense. Thats annoying to the folks truly busting things out BTW. not as much as a flower sniffer in memoirs annoying/but meh.

I think its about meshing. you join a reaper 4 lfm and your not ready. your not meshing. Your a ddo player with a decade of experience and your smashing stuff instantly from muscle memory, the normal korthos lfm isnt going to fit your bill. I think the difference is the newer folks dont realize that the reaper lfm isnt for them and join/shenanigans in sue...of course this is compounded with fact I TRed one of my characters back to 1 to run reapers, so im getting some REALLY fresh folks.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

My static group tried a bunch of different levels but have settled on Reaper +1 because we still want to actually make it to 30. Higher levels are obviously more of a challenge and more fun to complete, but we take a *LONG* time to get the dungeons done.

I'll join for anything, but I am preferring 1 skull right now... for basically this reason.
I am trying to level up along the way. And I want to complete and get xp.

Joined a group doing Vale, 2 skulls at level.
Went good.
Group began to use good tactics, but then got overconfident pretty fast.

Sporadic deaths.
Near wipe at the end of Devils.
Felt like back in the day when the vale was new actually.... well.. not that difficult really.

I am enjoying low skull levels right now.

[psykopeta]

I'll join for anything, but I am preferring 1 skull right now... for basically this reason.
I am trying to level up along the way. And I want to complete and get xp.

Joined a group doing Vale, 2 skulls at level.
Went good.
Group began to use good tactics, but then got overconfident pretty fast.

Sporadic deaths.
Near wipe at the end of Devils.
Felt like back in the day when the vale was new actually.... well.. not that difficult really.

I am enjoying low skull levels right now.

Imho, we are at the learning phase, so gotta choose what's the highesr diff we can complete comfortably

Or we can also set 1 number of skulls and stick to it, succeed? Nice or fail? Go back to elite to fulfill the ego lol

Atm 1 guildy and me are set on 3 skulls, sometimes the damage spikes surpasses us, rest of time his dps is enough to go fast(i think time is the thing to consider in reaper, long quests and long fights are harmful for the player and the feeling of progress)

As an example, you can get more reaper xp/min than these guys doing 10 skulls ts,and much safer, but u can't say "i did 10 skulls reaper" which is nice only in ur 1st reaper run, due to the extra xp

[jeremyt]

kinda piddlin around with reaper system last few days, have come to conclusion that longer quests are best 1 skulled and the short quests try to go as absolutely high as you can go. it seems pretty static base xp with the larger variance being level differentiation/skull level. so get a quest you can complete in a reasonably quick timeframe and ramp up the skulls for best reaper xp/min.

[LadySorrows]

Jeremyt I have read all your postings on Reaper mode -- so far alot of complaining. Frist of all we all know whether you are on casual or R10 -- pugging is crapshoot. You may roll 7's or hit snake eyes everytime. To complain about the puggers you get in your lfm's is going to do something pretty quickly -- no one is going to join your lfm's.

Newer players are in no way prepared for reaper mode, to complain about it is just a waste of time. To be upset that players don't want your advice, is annoying but it is what it is, been that way for the 10 yrs I've been playing. To be upset that people aren't playing their toons to how you feel they should be, hahaha. Get over it. To expect for instance a FVS, Cleric, Paladin as you were talking about in your other post to join a reaper pug and be dedicated healers -- come on, now. That shp sailed years ago when people did a whole lot of complaining about how they wouldn't heal.

I have toons that run Reaper mode with no problem, I have toons that can run reaper mode with me playing carefully. But, again I know the quests, the tactics, the importance of self healing and healing others, resists, buffs and whole slew of things that the newer players have never needed to learn or know. I was brought up back when the game needed parties to work together to complete quests. I am from a time when there was no guild ships, no aura or bursts for healers, no prestiges for healers, fvs, and sorcs. Old School -- what I learned back in the day that makes reapers doable for me and others who learned as I did back in the day. I don't and woudln't expect newer players to walk into Reaper's and preform in the same way I can and do.

I throw up LFM"S for reapers all the time, I get good players and I get ones that I and/or my husband carry through quests. It's all part of the game -- The new players won't become reaper ready til -- they see from us the importance of taking care of each other in reapers, using tactics and communicating -- especially in healing each other & buffing each other. I run in a couple of different static Reaper groups -- the expectation for the static groups are high dedicated healer(s), trapper, people doing their jobs and stepping up to do other jobs such as throwing a heal when needed -- using tactics, talking about best way to handle next tough fight, etc. Those are the expectations of my static groups. When I pug reaper -- my expectations are not the same, they can't be, because you never know what you are gettting in a pug - expectations in reaper pugging is self suffiency and helping others learn how Reaper works.

Many of the newer players know they aren't reaper ready btw -- the good newer players will step back and offer support, because they know they aren't where they need to be in reaper. I have gotten lot's of those in my Reaper pugs, then there are the onese who still try like mad to do dps soak up damage etc-- not realizing they are taxing on resources. They are still trying. To go on the forums and complain because they aren't what you want in pugs only makes it harder for them to want to stay in the game, and to join pugs.

Quit judging them for not being up to your standards -- and enjoy the game -- people will learn more from you in a laid back relaxed gaming atmosphere than they ever will if they feel like nothing they do is good enough for you.

[Rausdauer]

as a returning player, i had to jump in a couple reaper groups to try the new things out.... and i found i was really overmatched... so i may have been one of those peeps...

i tend to steer clear of them these days unless i know the quest well and am confident i can hang.

I don't have uber gear, and this is the first time i've ever played a thief... But as a long time (but not that great) sorcerer player, i know how to stick and move and stay alive unless i get one-shot killed.

Most peeps are running reaper these days, so it is bound to happen where you get someone who isn't up to snuff.

I'm putting together some good 2nd life gear for the second life on this toon, and i'll play reaper a lot more often in the next life.

for now i'm grabbing a few reaper enhancement points that will help in the next life..

[Cordovan]

/necro