Reaper CC

[Soleran100]

Has anyone tested Bard CC with fascinate and Enthrall on a 10 skull reaper yet? If so how does it fair vs mass holds or disco balls?

[Morroiel]

Theoretically possible but:

1) Typically bards run into mobs to fascinate them while invised. You cant do this anymore because of alert changes. Need to build for hide/ms if you want to do this and it needs to be high.

2) Reduction in length hurts -> with max song length you can actually get it pretty decent I'd be willing to bet. Still going to max out at like 30-40 s length. WHICH IS VERY good for 10 skull.

3) Mind affecting cc / not universal - if you are relying on this as cc might be screwed in some scenarios.

So yeah I'm not sure if its worth it or not.

[Soleran100]

Theoretically possible but:

1) Typically bards run into mobs to fascinate them while invised. You cant do this anymore because of alert changes. Need to build for hide/ms if you want to do this and it needs to be high.

2) Reduction in length hurts -> with max song length you can actually get it pretty decent I'd be willing to bet. Still going to max out at like 30-40 s length. WHICH IS VERY good for 10 skull.

3) Mind affecting cc / not universal - if you are relying on this as cc might be screwed in some scenarios.

So yeah I'm not sure if its worth it or not.

Well if you throw a mass hold or disco then a fascinate on top I was just wondering if that would even be worthwhile with the short duration cc and if fascinate/enthrall would boost the cc time overall.

[Morroiel]

Well if you throw a mass hold or disco then a fascinate on top I was just wondering if that would even be worthwhile with the short duration cc and if fascinate/enthrall would boost the cc time overall.

IMO you are better off with other builds. Ofc you might have a particular party/raid comp in mind where a bard would shine. But I think they are in a tough spot for reaper, personally.

tank + healer + dc caster (pref instakills as still highest dps on 10 skull) + 3 dps (pref with utility abilities that cost very little dps to gain - i.e. using para shuriken, having nerve venom, twisting in pin, etc)

If you can make it work all the more power to you.

[AzB]

Bards are pretty much boned in reaper. Not enough defense, not enough dps, swash insta kill won't work, and if you previously self healed to survive, that's gone.

Melee bards are pointless.

I watched a SS try reaper last night and very little was working. Charms that did work only last 6 seconds, and trying fascinate resulted in a dead bard 4 out of 4 times. The casting time is way too slow and it has to be done at close range. Instant death.

Roll a warlock or some sort of ranger/monk/rogue ranged toon. Reaper seems to be custom made for them.

Dedicated clerics are back, but probably only until the metagamers figure everything out. And everyone gets tired of waiting for a cleric. If you have to bard, SS is the only way to contribute, and we're back to being buffbots.

I predict that it will be only be a few months before reaper is the new norm and people will be soloing it and clamoring for a new difficulty "ultra suicide turbo extreme" mode.

[Vanhooger]

Bards are pretty much boned in reaper. Not enough defense, not enough dps, swash insta kill won't work, and if you previously self healed to survive, that's gone.

Melee bards are pointless.

I watched a SS try reaper last night and very little was working. Charms that did work only last 6 seconds, and trying fascinate resulted in a dead bard 4 out of 4 times. The casting time is way too slow and it has to be done at close range. Instant death.

Roll a warlock or some sort of ranger/monk/rogue ranged toon. Reaper seems to be custom made for them.

Dedicated clerics are back, but probably only until the metagamers figure everything out. And everyone gets tired of waiting for a cleric. If you have to bard, SS is the only way to contribute, and we're back to being buffbots. If the party has some sort of coordination, let the tank take aggro than do your thing.

I predict that it will be only be a few months before reaper is the new norm and people will be soloing it and clamoring for a new difficulty "ultra suicide turbo extreme" mode.

SS bard can be quite amazing to be honest in reaper. They can get best ench DC in game, support buff, support heal and fascinate that for what I heard with max duration does last around 30sec in r10 (didnt test it to be honest)

To get most out of fascinate without dying you need to start casting it way before you get near mob. As well party member like tank should help you out, you don't have to go and face 10 mob alone and try to fascinate them, most of the time.

[AzB]

SS bard can be quite amazing to be honest in reaper. They can get best ench DC in game, support buff, support heal and fascinate that for what I heard with max duration does last around 30sec in r10 (didnt test it to be honest)

To get most out of fascinate without dying you need to start casting it way before you get near mob. As well party member like tank should help you out, you don't have to go and face 10 mob alone and try to fascinate them, most of the time.

I use fascinate a lot when soloing, and am quite aware how it works and how to use it. Invis used to be the go to method to prevent dying, but that doesn't work anymore. I suppose a splashed rogue/bard with a lot of investment in ms might be a good one trick pony.

You have to time it perfectly, and if the mobs are strewn out over a large area, you have to moving through them to get all of them. If you're timing is off by a fraction of a second in reaper, you're dead. The slightest lag will kill you.

As I said, SS works, but you will be a buffbot. Some of us don't find that playstyle fun. Holds and disco are working, but at 6 secs max, they aren't exactly gamebreaking. But at least you can contribute. Melee bards, even well built ones with plenty of gear, are simply useless.

Being far away (ranged or caster) is the absolute best defense.

[Vanhooger]

I use fascinate a lot when soloing, and am quite aware how it works and how to use it. Invis used to be the go to method to prevent dying, but that doesn't work anymore. I suppose a splashed rogue/bard with a lot of investment in ms might be a good one trick pony.

You have to time it perfectly, and if the mobs are strewn out over a large area, you have to moving through them to get all of them. If you're timing is off by a fraction of a second in reaper, you're dead. The slightest lag will kill you.

As I said, SS works, but you will be a buffbot. Some of us don't find that playstyle fun. Holds and disco are working, but at 6 secs max, they aren't exactly gamebreaking. But at least you can contribute. Melee bards, even well built ones with plenty of gear, are simply useless.

Being far away (ranged or caster) is the absolute best defense.

As you said its not easy, but isn't reaper about challenge afterall?

[AzB]

As you said its not easy, but isn't reaper about challenge afterall?

I love a challenge. Dying constantly is not a challenge. You simple can't get enough defense on a melee bard to make any difference. Heck, even a full mail paladin ain't lasting long and he's got twice the defenses of a melee bard.

Melee needs some help, bad.

If you want to play reaper, roll a ranged toon or a warlock. If you have to bard, be a SS. At least you can contribute a little.

[goodspeed]

I love a challenge. Dying constantly is not a challenge. You simple can't get enough defense on a melee bard to make any difference. Heck, even a full mail paladin ain't lasting long and he's got twice the defenses of a melee bard.

Melee needs some help, bad.

If you want to play reaper, roll a ranged toon or a warlock. If you have to bard, be a SS. At least you can contribute a little.

Their is a melee build. Its called a mage with a tower shield heavy armor, and a few pally lol. Technically even with a nerf to self heals recon can still hit for like a heal scroll amount. I mean hell outside of reaper those things go off for around 3k. If you had the recon spell as well as the blade sla you can cast em back to back. Its what my wiz does.

Anyway ya you can nail about 200 prr maybe more between the gear, the pally defense stance, and tensors. A bit more if you have it from other area's going for defense at the expense of offense. And really unless you have everything going, your dead. You best have the resists stacked, the temp element blocker, a good chunk of mrr, mm blocker ect. Reaper is not for a melee without a ton of clickies at hand.

[Vanhooger]

I love a challenge. Dying constantly is not a challenge. You simple can't get enough defense on a melee bard to make any difference. Heck, even a full mail paladin ain't lasting long and he's got twice the defenses of a melee bard.

Melee needs some help, bad.

If you want to play reaper, roll a ranged toon or a warlock. If you have to bard, be a SS. At least you can contribute a little.

I think there are way to get less deaths as a melee.

First, I see melee & ranged play as if it was elite.

If you got some cc (monk,fighter or any melee class with some cc) 1vs1 is easy, you can also do 1vs2 sometimes, more then that you need to wait for your tank to take aggro and your caster to cc, not just run to mobs and cleave, you will die in a sec of course.

Reaper is supposed to be party effort.

[dunklezhan]

Bards are pretty much boned in reaper. Not enough defense, not enough dps, swash insta kill won't work, and if you previously self healed to survive, that's gone.

admittedly 1 skull, but I found my bard's instakill was the only thing having any noticeable effect (i.e. my frightening-on-hard DPS was, just like with EE, barely tickling the mobs).

[AzB]

admittedly 1 skull, but I found my bard's instakill was the only thing having any noticeable effect (i.e. my frightening-on-hard DPS was, just like with EE, barely tickling the mobs).

I just respecced from swash to PDK wc about 2 months ago. I'm very frustrated that my bard is so incredibly useless now. If the CC would hold up, I could deal with it, but with the bard's poor dps, I need lots more time to take trash down. On elite, I could simply heal my way through the fight, but that's not happening on reaper.

Is your swash insta kill working reliably on champs and such on reaper? I was thinking everything pretty much had Deathblock now.

(And yeah, we're talking 5+ skulls)

[Thoden]

I was thinking everything pretty much had Deathblock now.

(And yeah, we're talking 5+ skulls)

I'm nervous too, since my very best toon (triple completionist, nearly maxed fate points from ETRs) is a swashie, but not all champs have deathblock. This chart lays it out nicely:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Monster_Champion. Conveniently, champions even have their type clearly seen as well when you target or mouse over them.

[Faltout]

To answer the OP:

From 4 skulls LE memoirs:
Reapers can be fascinated for a long duration. I used that to fascinate everything so we could get to a fear reaper behind a forcefield and neutralize him.
Instakills work great. My swashbuckler had the most kills.

From 4 skills Depths last quest:
Reapers can also dance to resistible otto's dance.

Whatever people wanna say about bards, they are viable at reaper content. That displacement/ghostly/dodge is a nice thing to have when the tank is dead and the boss is chasing you around. Gives you time to raise your companions, buff and stuff while being missed in combat. As for CC, you'd never believe how useful a mass charm would be in epic content. Even if that charm only lasts for 6 seconds. You just gotta know what's in your arsenal. It's not only Ruin, PRR, DPS, HP, eldritch blast.

[Jacaroma]

Here's my fresh 30 bard.

Reaper would actually be easier to CC since you get the reaper spell pen/dc's. Still working on this guy.

[Tlorrd]

bards are awesome in reaper i've found ... just anecdotally ... we stepped into Demon's Assault on Reaper 5 and someone at the end went into boss area by accident before the rest of group did which we were occupied doing the optional. So when we went into the boss area, 3-4 spawns of flesners (spelling? fire and ice ones) had already spawned. We were getting owned by the pack of some 20-30 mobs and our bard fascinated them all so we could just beat the boss down and then claim the loot. It was pretty amazing actually.

[Enoach]

I know a lot of bards tend to stick with Invisibility and dance around the group using fascinate/enthrall. I actually recommend shadow walk as well as the best spot item you can get your hands on, to avoid walking into hidden/Invisible stuff. Even scrolled they are cheap and easy to use for most bards.

Also, songs have a decent range so it is also a good from a medium to close distance, you don't need to be on top of them.

Usually the issue with fascinate/enthrall is AoE damage effects. With it being more advantageous to not have multiple mobs attacking you, these abilities once again shine in these situations.