Why did you put the overlevel penalty to Reaper? Way to kill all the excitement

[Wizza]

Read the post above yours.



And should be even more fun for you when you complete it on AT LEVEL toons!

I did, but didn't actually understand why you are against it.

So I need to eTR to enjoy a quest like ADQ1 on Reaper? That sounds very unrealistic. Why shouldn't I have fun in it at lv30? Since it is, actually, a challenge even at cap on Reaper.

[Faltout]

... and the loot that may drop with Reaper bonus is insignifact in those quests...

False statement right there.
Loot of lower level is not insignificant because it is lower level

And reaper is not something to do at cap. Get over it. People TRing and playing the game have also been requesting more challenge and this is what challenge looks like: Completing hard quests at level.

As for heroic Abbot and other hard quests, it has been completed at level before and not all toons get one-shotted in there. Honestly, I would expect more HP and saves from a player like you. My toon is a gimp and does not get one-shotted in Abbot at level 17 (when failing a disintegrate save).

[FranOhmsford]

I did, but didn't actually understand why you are against it.

Not my post - Saekee's!

Oh here you go...

I was planning to farm Braza's Hat (Where There's Smoke) with a capped toon to get the reaper stacking boost to stats. So I can't engage in this powercreep plan of mine. Good!

So I need to eTR to enjoy a quest like ADQ1 on Reaper? That sounds very unrealistic. Why shouldn't I have fun in it at lv30? Since it is, actually, a challenge even at cap on Reaper.

And it will be even more of a Challenge at lvl 24 - Why would you be asking for "Less" Challenge if Challenge is what you want?

As for heroic Abbot and other hard quests, it has been completed at level before and not all toons get one-shotted in there. Honestly, I would expect more HP and saves from a player like you. My toon is a gimp and does not get one-shotted in Abbot at level 17 (when failing a disintegrate save).

Honestly I'd add in Exemptions for Raids if I was the Devs.

Abbot especially would benefit from being runnable by as wide a Range of Players as possible.

[Wizza]

Not my post - Saekee's!

Oh here you go...


And it will be even more of a Challenge at lvl 24 - Why would you be asking for "Less" Challenge if Challenge is what you want?

Why not have both? Im not going to eTR or TR to enjoy the best quests in game for a short period of time. And to get good Mythic+Reaper bonuses on an item you need stars to be aligned. And Saekee's post seemed sarcastic to me.

And we will disagree about Reaper bonus being significant for loot that is used just for leveling. 2 stats or 3 PRR/MRR/MP/SP/RP isn't gonna make any difference.

Either way, have fun

[FranOhmsford]

And we will disagree about Reaper bonus being significant for loot that is used just for leveling. 2 stats or 3 PRR/MRR/MP/SP/RP isn't gonna make any difference.

Oh it will make a difference!

Whether that be to the guy with middling scores who needs that bit extra or to the girl with maxed out everything who wants to show off - It will make a Difference!

[MeliCat]

How many fingers do you have if you consider that a Handful?




Reaper shouldn't be about Grinding XP!
Reaper shouldn't be the next default difficulty setting for players to congregate in!

Reaper should be for the Challenge!
And you don't go into Reaper if you're not ready for that Challenge {Ready in this case denoting that if you need a group you d@rn well WAIT for a Group NOT go IP!}.


Guilds and Static Groups - That's what Reaper is for!
Pugs will exist but pugging players should expect to have to wait for at least 2-3 more before going IP!

Possibly there are nuances of the end game mentality Fran that are a little different to how you think about it compared to how end game players think about it.

It's like this;

You get to 30 after getting all your lives and all your gear and thinking long and hard about your character and your setup. It takes a long time to get all your gear so you set it all up so that it is all good to go at level 30. Much much farming. All your twinks of gear and character are all bound up in being the best that you can be at level 30.

So that is all you care about - being the best you can be at level 30 and testing your skill and the best you are will ALL aspects of that (gear, skill, character, game knowledge) at that end point. That is the challenge. Not the stuff before 30. The stuff before 30 exists only to bring your level 30 to it's zenith and no other purpose.

So you talk about 'challenge' on anything other than a level 30 well then, you are asking people to make their characters less than they can be - and that is just of no interest to people who play at end game. End game is not just level 30. It is level 30 + farmed gear + farmed lives/favor/etc + learned skills + tweaked and discussed and laboured over characters.

I thought Reaper mode was going to be for end game. But only a certain % will be with this lock out - the rest is of not the same sort of interest. What is more the % that is available to end game 30s is the exact same stuff we've had for 5 years ... and that is really disappointing

I just don't understand how end game players are so misunderstood here.

[Faltout]

The stuff before 30 exists only to bring your level 30 to it's zenith and no other purpose.

wrong.

[FranOhmsford]

I thought Reaper mode was going to be for end game. But only a certain % will be with this lock out - the rest is of not the same sort of interest. What is more the % that is available to end game 30s is the exact same stuff we've had for 5 years ... and that is really disappointing

No you didn't "think" Reaper mode was going to be for end-game because the Devs have never stated it was an End-Game difficulty - In fact quite the opposite in that they've stated over and over again that it's a difficulty for those fed up of "LEVELLING" on difficulties considered too easy!

LEGENDARY is an End-Game difficulty!
And yes Legendary Quests on Reaper as well as the highest level Epic Quests on Reaper will blatantly be End-Game but that's not what Reaper was meant to fix!


We need more End-Game content - We will ALWAYS need more End-Game content because End-Gamers are constantly on that line waiting for new content, they get it, they run it, they want more of it!

But we have 18 Quests and Multiple Raids that even under the Devs DRACONIAN {and yes I think it actually is} Base Lvl +2 Limit {It should be BB which would give Capped Characters Lvl 26+ Base Quests rather than 28+} will be runnable by CAPPED characters!
And that's before new quests added each update - 18 for now, 25 by the end of the year? 32 by the end of next year - It will keep going up.

[Saekee]

I was planning to farm Braza's Hat (Where There's Smoke) with a capped toon to get the reaper stacking boost to stats. So I can't engage in this powercreep plan of mine. Good!

But then again, why are you against Reaper being done overlevel? We don't get XP, and the loot that may drop with Reaper bonus is insignifact in those quests. So what's your argument about us having every single quest of ddo available instead of the 24 that they chose with this system?

Our ass was kicked even in Servants 10, and thats a fun quest.

just duplicating my own post as a possible response Wizza.

I would be ok with overlevel characters playing Reaper at any difficulty so long as named items do not drop (with mythic/reaper bonuses). I suspect that there is some programming mechanism in place that makes such a caveat difficult to set up. Overlevel farming is a DDO tradition that has heavily contributed to powercreep (This is not the same as favor running).

[JOTMON]

False statement right there.
Loot of lower level is not insignificant because it is lower level

And reaper is not something to do at cap. Get over it. People TRing and playing the game have also been requesting more challenge and this is what challenge looks like: Completing hard quests at level.

~snip- cutting out the personal attacks against other players pointless ramble~

Its only significant for the short time we are in those lower levels, in the overall scheme of the game.. it is insignificant.

Reaper should be content we do at cap, TR'ing players are TR'ing for past lives to help them at endgame, its the capped players who want more challenge, low level players can always challenge higher level content.
the direction the Dev's have gone with this Reaper implementation will not help the overall game or the players at cap who want content to play with their toons that are endgame ready.

[Wizza]

just duplicating my own post as a possible response Wizza.

I would be ok with overlevel characters playing Reaper at any difficulty so long as named items do not drop (with mythic/reaper bonuses). I suspect that there is some programming mechanism in place that makes such a caveat difficult to set up. Overlevel farming is a DDO tradition that has heavily contributed to powercreep (This is not the same as favor running).

The funny thing is that noone of us have ever asked about any item, except Cosmetics and bragging Titles. But somehow players here are blaming us for Turbine's decisions to implement Reaper items, Reaper bonuses and Reaper XP. I'd do just fine with just Cosmetics and some fun show-off titles.

[Enoach]

On one hand I see how the gating can preserve the challenge possibly even preserve the idea that these quests are not being designed to be solo'd (but not limiting to prevent people from trying). At the same time I'm wondering if this has more to do with the rewards that were added that I know I wanted limited to cosmetic.

We can all agree that a level 30 doing a level 1 quest even on 10 Skulls the player is overpowered for the content. It is looking like this is about preserving the challenge due to rewards.

[Vish]

A measured response

Ok, I had to sleep on this.
My initial impression was nerf city and a slam.
And the over level seems wrong.

From what coco said streaming, it sounder like it was going to be an xp nerf to overlevel. Like -25% per level over. So say a 30 running anything under 27 gets no xp. That sounded fine.
But now, 2 levels? That seems good idea for rewards. I'd keep it.
But, you should still allow overlevel. Just no rewards.
Can you guys code this?

Because the cry seems to be level 30 and challenge.
But I get it. Everybody is already talking 10 skull completion.
And you have a new baby, and you want to protect it. It's sacred.
And you want to uphold the challenge part.
Well, I can understand where you're coming from, and I generally agree.
Just allow overlevel for no loot, no xp.

See this all comes down to bragging rights.
I get it, ssg don't want no 10 skull completions out of the box. Cept maybe at 30. And preferably, nothing even over 5 skull, it's supposed to be that hard.
So bragging comes from doing it at level.
And if you allow overlevel 10 skull, then you'll have no bragging rights. Sure you can do 10 skull chrono on capped toons, but you get nothing for it. Other than super tough content. No xp, no drops.?*
Just challenge.

Can you do this for us ssg?
Today's patch is about transition, from the old to the new.
So you're no longer turdbin, youre a stone. Maybe rolling, preferably standing. So stand up and do it different. Get out of the old groupthink. Listen to your feedback. And take a different tack.

I think the nerf to hurl is needed. Keep it.
But I think the trees are uninspired.
Poor melees.?*
Time for us all to cast.
Isnt this how it is though? That all mmos favor the mages?
I mean it's all about the magic right?
I see melee getting marginal increases, and all the love going to casters.
I would either double the weapons and tank, or half the spells.

I realize this is a difficult implementation.
Sounds like you pulled an all nighter.
And things still aren't working...
Ya, and the complainers speak first and loudest.
But with this over level thing I do think you have missed target.
I was looking forward to running epic skulls on a capped character.
That's where it's at right?
But now to tr through reaper? Sure for survival points and xp.
But when I get to cap I want to play. Play hard and see what this new challenge brings. Not bloody likely.
But here's the caveat.?*
If you introduce an endgame this year, then maybe where you're at could be considered forward thinking. That you will implement the vision. But as it stands, people are bored and wanted a challenge.
And you've just told them get back on the hamster wheel.
You may lose some, and not draw others.

Tldr
So please reconsider overlevel. No xp, no points, no loot.
Just challenge and fun.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

It provides a challenge over and above elite for all levels of play not just "endgame".

Reaper mode could become the new default setting for permadeath play which kinda got nuked from orbit with enhancement tree changes and loot power increases.

[DANTEIL]

The funny thing is that noone of us have ever asked about any item, except Cosmetics and bragging Titles. But somehow players here are blaming us for Turbine's decisions to implement Reaper items, Reaper bonuses and Reaper XP. I'd do just fine with just Cosmetics and some fun show-off titles.

We've already had this discussion:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5691906

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5691925

[Wizza]

We've already had this discussion:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5691906

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5691925

An year and over old reply! I didn't know we were gonna have absurd powercreep as we have now but nice find. I also asked Reaper to be truly hard and long term. I surely changed my mind from back then, and haven't asked for any of them now much less the XP trees, which went way overboard.

[Jetrule]

I think the level cap lock out is a good thing if a bit narrow at 2 levels over. I would suggest awarding no reaper xp for overlevel though instead of straight lockout. The Number of quests appears to be increasing this year at the level 28+ range and forming parties to work together at level on lower level quests seems like a fun idea. The thing we need to pull this together that doesn't seem to be on the horizon is a server merge. Out side of dedicated static groups I think finding a good team to run the content in mid+skull difficulties with will be very difficult on most if not all servers.

Is the main concern the proliferation of named items? Some with new mythic bonuses and the like not seen before? Thus powercreep at levels under cap?

[Mr_Helmet]

So you don'like Deathwyrm but were looking forward to run CitW. Couldn't expecting any different from you.

There's a difference, DW sucks and CiTW is a great raid. That Mythic/Reaper CiTW weapons COULD be worth pursuing, nothing in DW is worth my time.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Aww man. I was looking forward to taking a lvl 30 toon through a 10 star "stop hazadeill's shipment" then come to the forums complaining about how reaper is too easy.


/sarc

[Wizza]

There's a difference, DW sucks and CiTW is a great raid. That Mythic/Reaper CiTW weapons COULD be worth pursuing, nothing in DW is worth my time.

That's why you belong to Ghallanda