Why did you put the overlevel penalty to Reaper? Way to kill all the excitement

[Mr_Helmet]

That's why you belong to Ghallanda

You have is backwards, Ghallanda belongs to me.

[TBot1234]

The funny thing is that noone of us have ever asked about any item, except Cosmetics and bragging Titles. But somehow players here are blaming us for Turbine's decisions to implement Reaper items, Reaper bonuses and Reaper XP. I'd do just fine with just Cosmetics and some fun show-off titles.

This claim is not true.

In fact, there were many different ideas proposed about what Reaper Rewards should be, and some involved more than Cosmetics and Titles.

Below is a list of some of the things that were suggested, in the one Reaper Reward Suggestions thread I looked back at:
-consumables that reduce debuffs caused by reapers...
-add more remnant turn in rewards..
-double named end chests for lootz...
-High drop rates for mythic bonusses
-extend the Legendary statuette and busts to work on all gear, then drop them as chance rewards in Reaper.
-+1 chest level per 3 skulls
-mythic random gen
-treasure finders +1 per skull
-rare drop (Unbound) to add Mythic bonuses to items via the stone of change system
-+7 Tome drops
-Unbound crafting blanks with 2 augment slots
-ability to craft XP stones to use in future lives...
-a more robust remnant store
-wider variety of augments maybe.

-reintroduction of tomes onto the loot table
-Higher Random Loot Table
-Utility Items (faster run speed outside of quests, teleport item to more locations)
-Consumables (bracelet of friends, repair shrine, universal guest pass --> 1 use, etc)
-Choice of Crafting Materials
-Quest Manual that gives rewards similar to a Monster Manual


-Overflow XP systems might benefit from Reaper Bonus XP?
-Sentient Weapons gaining extra XP from Reaper Bonus, along with Epic Destiny XP while possibly not awarding addition normal XP.
-I would like to see a lot of XP from reaper mode
-guild rewards (special buff shrines, guild titles, special guild teleports, airship paint, airship banners or even cosmetic airships...etc).
-Reaper could theoretically drop rare loot items at a higher rate than elite. I’m talking about things like tomes, ioun stones and other very-rare drop items that are already accessible in all difficulty levels.
-silver lotto roll token, or a gold lotto roll token
-possible rewards is like the raid runes to be turned in for things simular to things already in game or things in game.
-item just like the everlasting pots for rems
-pots just like those in evening star commendation turn ins
-augments (diamond, ruby, sapphire)
-means to turn in for other ingredients like cannith essences, or collectibles
-scaling reaper gear
-1 skull = 1 special favor of some npc fraction, 800 of this favor gives an additional feat (may be epic), 1500 gives +4 to stats and skills, total favor (may be without 30-50) gives additional legendary or ed feat, or just gives +20 heart.
-collectibles that can be traded for shards, seals, and scrolls for epic rituals


-random loot reward will be top end for the ML no matter the level of the quest, so any good combinations will be worth an absolute packet in terms of Astral shards, plat, TRing, giving to guildies, or just straight up being used
-Comms
-Heroism comms
-Collectables
-Rare collectables
-Stuff u can get in other dungeons or raids but need luck
-Minor and mediocre buffs to gear begotten on reaper would be great.

Seems enough people lobbied for having some kind of material reward beyond "challenge" that SSG reacted to it, leaving us where we are now.

[Wizza]

This claim is not true.

In fact, there were many different ideas proposed about what Reaper Rewards should be, and some involved more than Cosmetics and Titles.

You are right as word "ever" was probably out of place. But you are quoting a thread that goes back 1 year and half ago.

Everyone also thought Artificers were OP when everyone was running a Juggernaut. Doesn't really mean it holds its water right now. If you read threads from the first Lamannia release with Reaper, most of us really interested in Reaper just want:

1) Cosmetics
2) Bragging Titles
3) and some want also a small increase in power.

So yeah, can't really quote a year old thread to make a point. Things have changed, and also people change their minds. Read threads on Lamannia from the last months, and you will see.

[TBot1234]

You are right as word "ever" was probably out of place. But you are quoting a thread that goes back 1 year and half ago.
...
So yeah, can't really quote a year old thread to make a point. Things have changed, and also people change their minds. Read threads on Lamannia from the last months, and you will see.

Actually, the thread I quoted from ran from 10-14-2016 to 12-23-2016. I should have linked it: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...rd+Suggestions

So, these requests for rewards were only in the last few months. I'm guessing the developers heard enough voices saying "I won't run Reaper without rewards!" and reacted. I could be wrong.

I too hoped Reaper would be about challenge only and maybe cosmetic rewards, but now that the developers have created rewards systems, they're faced with how to limit powercreep when powercreep should never have been a possibility at all.

EDITED TO FIX LINK

[Renvar]

Actually, the thread I quoted from ran from 10-14-2016 to 12-23-2016. I should have linked it: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...rd+Suggestions

So, these requests for rewards were only in the last few months. I'm guessing the developers heard enough voices saying "I won't run Reaper without rewards!" and reacted. I could be wrong.

I too hoped Reaper would be about challenge only and maybe cosmetic rewards, but now that the developers have created rewards systems, they're faced with how to limit powercreep when powercreep should never have been a possibility at all.

EDITED TO FIX LINK

As a developer, if you have players with two opinions:

Player A wants content just for the challenge/joy of running the content. With no rewards.

Player B wants content with rewards.

Do you:

1) Create content with no rewards - Player A has content and is happy, player B has no rewards and is unhappy.

2) Create content with rewards. Player A can run content and have challenge/joy. They can choose to ignore the rewards/forego them. If they ever change their mind, the rewards are there. Player B can run content and get rewards and is happy. If they ever decide they don't want rewards they can ignore/forego them.

It seems like the better choice is option 2. Hence Reaper has rewards. Enough people wanted rewards, that it made more sense to include them. If you don't want rewards, nobody is forcing you to take them or keep them. I'm sure there are people in your party or guild who would be happy to have your loot.

[TBot1234]

Enough people wanted rewards, that it made more sense to include them. If you don't want rewards, nobody is forcing you to take them or keep them. I'm sure there are people in your party or guild who would be happy to have your loot.

It does seem to me that these new restrictions/lockouts for Reaper are because of the reward systems, and Reaper could have been designed without them. Are there other reasons for the restrictions on Reaper besides rewards?

And you're right, people can leave their rewards in the chest.

On the same note, people could have gotten some more challenge just by unequipping some gear or playing a different sort of character.

I doubt either happens very often.

[Wizza]

Actually, the thread I quoted from ran from 10-14-2016 to 12-23-2016. I should have linked it: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...rd+Suggestions

So, these requests for rewards were only in the last few months. I'm guessing the developers heard enough voices saying "I won't run Reaper without rewards!" and reacted. I could be wrong.

I too hoped Reaper would be about challenge only and maybe cosmetic rewards, but now that the developers have created rewards systems, they're faced with how to limit powercreep when powercreep should never have been a possibility at all.

EDITED TO FIX LINK

I have no problem with rewards being the Reaper bonus on the items. It's not something I will pursue personally, but I can see some people needing a carrot and have no problem with that. However, punishing everyone because of both the reward system and XP, cutting the quest choice by 1/5th of what we could have is just silly, in any way you want to put it.

Is 3 Reaper bonus really gonna make or break a toon? No, I really doubt so, and Turbine being worried about overleveling farm is way bigger than it needs to be. We have farmed loot overleveled forever now since the introduction of MotU, and it's never been an issue.

Either way, I made a list of people for and against this change HERE and the majority of the posters agree with the OP. Most of them, also, agreed to forfait Rewards and XP when running overlevel (or have a severe penalty).

[kemetka]

Obviously it's not old news since everybody is reacting to it.

is to the people that listened to the streams and interviews, and read the information on it when it was originally announced.

[irnimnode]

Why are we not being informed about the Unable to decrypt and de-serialize the data downloaded from the server. problem

[CaptainPurge]

is to the people that listened to the streams and interviews, and read the information on it when it was originally announced.

You obfuscated yourself. Must be proud.

[Moon-Wolf]

The level Lockout is Awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!! To me the reasoning behind it is on point !

Why let someone farm Reaper, when then the The harvester of Soul Stones ( Reaper itself) is the only farmer there?

If you are going to give out Reaper bonuses ( trees, gear, xp, cosmetics ,ect.).

Then also give out a bonus to balance it. Or the bonuses for running Reaper Mode well just become a new source of power creep and you'll need a new difficulty setting in 9 - 18 months.

As the Reaper is the Angel of Death ,( players are fighting Death itself). So to go with that story line , my idea would be as follows;

Reaper Death Penalty
Upon being returned to life by most means, you gain a permanent debuff that gives you Negative Reaped Levels( you lose whole levels equal the you negative levels upon leaving quest) and a temporary penalty to saving throws versus Fear. Multiple deaths in a short time add additional penalties. The maximum total penalty you can accumulate rises as you gain levels. This could work like the regular Death penalty as far as accumulation but the Negative Reaped Levels are permanent. No spells,or any other source, not even the Spirit Binders can remove the permanent Negative Reaped Levels.

Resting at a shrine, spells and going to a Spirit Binder only removes the temporary fear penalties , but not the Negative Reaped Levels as they are permanent.
The only way to regain the Negative Reaped Levels is to gain it back by playing the game and regain the level anew.

It is just an idea , since players are fighting The Angel of Death this just seems to go with that story line to me.

If Reaper is too hard for players to run at +2 level limit, with this Reaper Death Penalty, then there are easier difficulty settings. There is still Elite with no level limit and no reaper death penalty.

Reaper wasn't made so that level 30 characters could farm twink gear, to give to lower level characters on their account , it was intended to add challenge. If they want to farm twink gear this would be a way to do just that. By getting permanent negative levels ( losses of a whole levels) they can run lower level quests to get it , then they just have to run more quest to get back up in levels. I'd say if they took level loses to farm twink gear ,it was a fair trade ,and they earned that gear and can do whatever with it. This also gives them more stuff to do , like play more content at lower levels, and regain their end game spot.

I would think that none of the end gamers would have an issue with the +2 level lockout, that they knew enough about the game and were so good at playing it. That they'd be chewing at the bit to build some new level 1 characters and go full bore grinding out new builds on reaper. Guess I was wrong.

[kemetka]

You obfuscated yourself. Must be proud.

i fail to see how i confused myself, perhaps you were thinking of a different word.

[SirValentine]

As a developer, if you have players with two opinions:

Player A wants content just for the challenge/joy of running the content. With no rewards.

Player B wants content with rewards.

Do you:

1) Create content with no rewards - Player A has content and is happy, player B has no rewards and is unhappy.

2) Create content with rewards. Player A can run content and have challenge/joy. They can choose to ignore the rewards/forego them. If they ever change their mind, the rewards are there. Player B can run content and get rewards and is happy. If they ever decide they don't want rewards they can ignore/forego them.

It seems like the better choice is option 2. Hence Reaper has rewards. Enough people wanted rewards, that it made more sense to include them. If you don't want rewards, nobody is forcing you to take them or keep them. I'm sure there are people in your party or guild who would be happy to have your loot.

As a developer, if you have players with two opinions:

Player A, serial TRist, wants more challenging content to run at-level as they level.

Player B, who doesn't TR, wants more challenging content just for the challenge/joy of running the content, even if it has no rewards.

Do you:

1) Create content with level lock-outs. Player A has content and is happy, player B is cut off from the content and is unhappy.

2) Create content without level lock-outs. Player A can run content and have at-level challenge/joy. They can choose to ignore the ability to run over-level. If they ever change their mind, the option to go in over-level is there. Player B can run content and is happy. If they ever decide they want to TR after all, they can run them at-level.

It seems like the better choice is option 2.

Hence Reaper has no lock-outs. Enough people wanted to actually be able to run Reaper, that it made more sense to include them. If you don't want to run over-level, nobody is forcing you to.

Oh, wait...Reaper does have lock-outs. So I guess the devs are not going by that line of logic after all.

[Kza]

As a developer, if you have players with two opinions:

Player A, serial TRist, wants more challenging content to run at-level as they level.

Player B, who doesn't TR, wants more challenging content just for the challenge/joy of running the content, even if it has no rewards.

Do you:

1) Create content with level lock-outs. Player A has content and is happy, player B is cut off from the content and is unhappy.

2) Create content without level lock-outs. Player A can run content and have at-level challenge/joy. They can choose to ignore the ability to run over-level. If they ever change their mind, the option to go in over-level is there. Player B can run content and is happy. If they ever decide they want to TR after all, they can run them at-level.

It seems like the better choice is option 2.

Hence Reaper has no lock-outs. Enough people wanted to actually be able to run Reaper, that it made more sense to include them. If you don't want to run over-level, nobody is forcing you to.

Oh, wait...Reaper does have lock-outs. So I guess the devs are not going by that line of logic after all.

+1

[Wizza]

As a developer, if you have players with two opinions:

Player A, serial TRist, wants more challenging content to run at-level as they level.

Player B, who doesn't TR, wants more challenging content just for the challenge/joy of running the content, even if it has no rewards.

Do you:

1) Create content with level lock-outs. Player A has content and is happy, player B is cut off from the content and is unhappy.

2) Create content without level lock-outs. Player A can run content and have at-level challenge/joy. They can choose to ignore the ability to run over-level. If they ever change their mind, the option to go in over-level is there. Player B can run content and is happy. If they ever decide they want to TR after all, they can run them at-level.

It seems like the better choice is option 2.

Hence Reaper has no lock-outs. Enough people wanted to actually be able to run Reaper, that it made more sense to include them. If you don't want to run over-level, nobody is forcing you to.

Oh, wait...Reaper does have lock-outs. So I guess the devs are not going by that line of logic after all.

Options 2 destroy others gameplay...or so they say. If you farm twink gear on your Lv30 toon, their gameplay will be ruined forever.

If you see an Heroic Abbot with level 30 toons on Live, make sure to send a tell to the party leader telling him to put the lfm or you won't have fun in game ever again.

/sarcasm

[bls904c2]

As a developer, if you have players with two opinions:

Player A, serial TRist, wants more challenging content to run at-level as they level.

Player B, who doesn't TR, wants more challenging content just for the challenge/joy of running the content, even if it has no rewards.

Do you:

1) Create content with level lock-outs. Player A has content and is happy, player B is cut off from the content and is unhappy.

2) Create content without level lock-outs. Player A can run content and have at-level challenge/joy. They can choose to ignore the ability to run over-level. If they ever change their mind, the option to go in over-level is there. Player B can run content and is happy. If they ever decide they want to TR after all, they can run them at-level.

It seems like the better choice is option 2.

Hence Reaper has no lock-outs. Enough people wanted to actually be able to run Reaper, that it made more sense to include them. If you don't want to run over-level, nobody is forcing you to.

Oh, wait...Reaper does have lock-outs. So I guess the devs are not going by that line of logic after all.

Lets corupt a wish here. Take away level lockout and place 100% bound to character items. Nothing in chests can be passed.

[kemetka]

i'd support removing the lockout only if they treated it as elite, in that if anyone in the party is over 2 levels higher than the base quest that their is no reaper xp or rewards given. This would still be a problematic issue though still let people farm for stuff as the increased drop rate and chance of having special reaper bonus items could still show, which is supposed to be a reward for meeting the challenge of reaper.

[Wizza]

i'd support removing the lockout only if they treated it as elite, in that if anyone in the party is over 2 levels higher than the base quest that their is no reaper xp or rewards given. This would still be a problematic issue though still let people farm for stuff as the increased drop rate and chance of having special reaper bonus items could still show, which is supposed to be a reward for meeting the challenge of reaper.

But farming for stuff overlevel now on Live is fine

[kemetka]

But farming for stuff overlevel now on Live is fine

the game didnt have specific "elite only" versions of items - except for that brief stint of norm/hard/elite items that had very little difference between them - with specific boosts on them, you don't find "+2 stacking stat" bonuses on helms for running elite.

the reaper rewards systems was setup to reward those that rise to the challenge not for those that make the challenge easier by bringing in over level, or in what would be the case far over level characters to run it.

[FranOhmsford]

the game didnt have specific "elite only" versions of items - except for that brief stint of norm/hard/elite items that had very little difference between them - with specific boosts on them, you don't find "+2 stacking stat" bonuses on helms for running elite.

You're forgetting the huge uproar around the introduction of those items and the subsequent Dev decision to have that be a one-off based on that uproar!

The only argument actually FOR keeping those N/H/E items was that players could SELL them on the AH/ASAH - Players who already had plenty of plat/items to sell on shard exchange wanted more plat/shards from players who didn't have either!

And it was no longer "well given time you could farm those items yourself, you're just paying to get them earlier from someone who did the farming for you"
It became "can't run Elite, well I can and I'll sell you the item you need to be able to run Elite - Oh but it'll be at an exorbitant cost that I know you can't afford because you have nothing worth selling"


Tiered N/H/E Loot was A TERRIBLE idea!