Why did you put the overlevel penalty to Reaper? Way to kill all the excitement

[noinfo]

So reaper is doubling down on all what I dislike the most in ddo. Leveling and xp grinding while not at cap...

Puagh

This

[Wizza]

You can't even enter the quest anymore if overlevel?

That is right. Check Dev tracker too from the official reply from Coco (Im on phone, too much work to link it to you sorry ). There is some discussion going on with Cordo in the official Third Preview thread as well.

[blerkington]

Except that it turns out reaper was not to challenge cap players. It is not at cap specific activity, it is not the promised land of end game. It is yet another brand new hamster wheel.

Remember grinding epic destinies? Now you can grind some extremely generic and boring reaper PrEs.
Remember farming for rare items with some minor power addition? Mythic started with additional effects in epic necro but quickly descended to just some mythic bonuses to mrr or prr. Boring.

So reaper is doubling down on all what I dislike the most in ddo. Leveling and xp grinding while not at cap, check. Repeating the same content as nauseam for some rare drop, check. Continuation of a very generic numbers race, check.

Puagh

There is already a lot of levelling content in the game relative to content for capped characters.

The company could make levelling more interesting and challenging by working on a better spread of difficulty from casual to elite and getting serious about balancing classes, races and EDs. But it really does look like they are abandoning trying to balance the majority of the game.

Then they could use reaper to fill the huge void that is our endgame. Because at some point, people want to get off or at the very least take a break from the hamster wheel and enjoy playing those characters they've spent years working on. So there's a point to it other than the journey itself.

It just seems farcical to me that so much of the game is about getting all dressed up in great gear, past lives, as well as learning how to play well, and then there's so little to do once you get there.

Even though reaper for capped characters would not have been perfect, it would have been something more than we have now. Do they really not get how much of a missed opportunity this will be?

Thanks.

[MeliCat]

How many people didn't see this coming though? Admittedly, I haven't been following U34 closely so that's on me, the preparation for a reaper-ready alt changes now to run out of cap so it is time to get back to work.

I thought it would be a bit like level 20 and then epics. So yes I'm surprised and disappointed.

There was content I was looking forward to being reapered but no one is going to bother now.

[CaptainPurge]

that information was stated a while ago, this is old news.

Obviously it's not old news since everybody is reacting to it.

[lppmor]

Blocking entrance to quests is always bad. Players enjoy to be free to do what they want to do. Of course this would lead to rage.

The devs will eventually have to implement XP penalty to reaper, and I believe this is not that hard since it exists already in all other difficulties. Pretty much copy-paste?

[BigErkyKid]

There is already a lot of levelling content in the game relative to content for capped characters.

The company could make levelling more interesting and challenging by working on a better spread of difficulty from casual to elite and getting serious about balancing classes, races and EDs. But it really does look like they are abandoning trying to balance the majority of the game.

Then they could use reaper to fill the huge void that is our endgame. Because at some point, people want to get off or at the very least take a break from the hamster wheel and enjoy playing those characters they've spent years working on. So there's a point to it other than the journey itself.

It just seems farcical to me that so much of the game is about getting all dressed up in great gear, past lives, as well as learning how to play well, and then there's so little to do once you get there.

Even though reaper for capped characters would not have been perfect, it would have been something more than we have now. Do they really not get how much of a missed opportunity this will be?

Thanks.

I think this is an interesting situation. I remember I had a discussion with you over options for leveling in a more challenging content or just speed leveling. This was in the context of the newer and tougher quests.

I thin reaper is meant to address your demand at a time of the possibility to level in challenging content. Optional challenge to level.

Frankly, for me that is a totally wasted effort. I care about cap, and challenge seekers (or bragging rights people...) seem to be mostly at cap.

Wait for reaper reincarnation...

[blerkington]

I think this is an interesting situation. I remember I had a discussion with you over options for leveling in a more challenging content or just speed leveling. This was in the context of the newer and tougher quests.

I thin reaper is meant to address your demand at a time of the possibility to level in challenging content. Optional challenge to level.

Frankly, for me that is a totally wasted effort. I care about cap, and challenge seekers (or bragging rights people...) seem to be mostly at cap.

Wait for reaper reincarnation...

We wouldn't even need reaper if more attention had been paid to managing content difficulty, class balance, and there had been more restraint during the enhancement passes and gear changes.

But since such a tremendously bad job has been done in these area recently, a game that functioned reasonably well with C/N/H/E for many years no longer works. And it's pretty obvious whose fault that is.

I was really hoping some lesson would be learnt from this, but if anything they seem determined to dive even deeper down the rabbit hole of their mistakes. My advice for the developers is start planning for the next difficulty above reaper if you haven't learnt anything from this debacle.

Thanks.

[FranOhmsford]

Characters cannot enter a quest on Reaper Difficulty if they are more than two levels of the base challenge rating of the dungeon or raid. Characters also cannot enter Reaper dungeons if they are Epic level and the dungeon is not.


Why oh why is this in place? You just gave us a new hard mode, but you make this overlevel penalty forcing us again to run the same dozens of quests that we have been running for the past two years? Why? We were looking forward to run quests that were fun TO US, not being forced into running the same ones all over again.

I was looking forward to quests such as WGU, Abbot, ToD, Chronoscope, ADQ1, Partycrasher, Lord of Blades, MA, heck even Dreaming Dark and the many others that have been rendered dull due to powercreep, instead you are making us run Slavers all over again? And Shroud?

This is just honestly a gigantic fail in my eyes, and completely killed any interest that I had in this mode.

I GIVE UP!

You wanted a Challenge and now you're complaining about the Devs giving it to you!

WGU on EE is Lvl 29 - If the Devs stick with the extra BB levels in Epics you will be able to run it on Reaper at 30, If they don't then just run it at 26-29!

[Claver]

Characters cannot enter a quest on Reaper Difficulty if they are more than two levels of the base challenge rating of the dungeon or raid. Characters also cannot enter Reaper dungeons if they are Epic level and the dungeon is not.

I rather like that there is some gating mechanic to preserve challenge of a 10 skull achievement to a character at or close to the level of that quest; having said that, I am sympathetic to the desire of those at CAP to play a wider range of content and at some levels, it may be hard to find enough players to fill the party in that level range unless characters underlevel give it a go.

I would proposes a different compromise:

First Choice: Characters of any level can run Reaper at up to 6 skulls of difficulty. Skull setting of 7or higher will be restricted to characters no higher than 2 levels of the base challenge rating of the quest.

Comment: Applies to all level ranges while maintaining the integrity of the highest levels of achievement

Second Choice: Characters of any level can run Epic quest on Reaper. Heroic Reaper will be restricted to characters no higher than 2 levels of the base challenge rating of the quest.

Comment: Gives characters at CAP more quests to run while avoiding abuses at heroic levels

Third Choice: Reaper will be restricted to characters no higher than 4 levels of the base challenge rating of the quest.

Comment: Gives characters at CAP a few more quests to run at CAP. It still allows for some abuses but at 4 levels it won't be quite as extreme

[Wizza]

I GIVE UP!

You wanted a Challenge and now you're complaining about the Devs giving it to you!

WGU on EE is Lvl 29 - If the Devs stick with the extra BB levels in Epics you will be able to run it on Reaper at 30, If they don't then just run it at 26-29!

Read the OP. Re-read the first two sentences. Then re-read your post and find what is wrong.

[Eth]

I GIVE UP!

You wanted a Challenge and now you're complaining about the Devs giving it to you!

WGU on EE is Lvl 29 - If the Devs stick with the extra BB levels in Epics you will be able to run it on Reaper at 30, If they don't then just run it at 26-29!

The main issue people have is that this change only supports a handful of quests and raids at level cap, which gets stale very quickly.
I get that scaling every quest to level 30 and then to reaper would be to much work.

There's just no playerbase to support running specific quests at very restricted level ranges, if the mode is "balanced party required". You need a point that catches most, and that is the level cap (I mean that's how it works in pretty much every game with an actual end game I have played).

[FranOhmsford]

Read the OP. Re-read the first two sentences. Then re-read your post and find what is wrong.

Nothing is wrong - Read to the end of my post!


Now we could have a discussion about the Devs being less strict on the 2 levels above on absolutely every quest no matter what situation.
We could have a discussion about Heroic/Epic crossover - Again with the Lvl 17-20 base quest levels hate Devs?

But a Lockout for overlevel Characters is in itself NECESSARY to preserve the Challenge of Reaper!


Suggestions:
Use BB rather than a Strict 2 levels above base - That way Lvl 26+ Quests would all count for Capped Toons to run in Reaper rather than 28+
This gives Capped Toons WGU for instance.

Expand the Epic BB system down to Base Lvl 17 to allow Lvl 20 Characters to run Lvl 17+ Quests on Reaper rather than 18+
This reduces the heavy disincentive to running Lvl 17 Quests.

Raids should be EXEMPT or have a much wider Range allowed depending on the Raid.


Otherwise I'm good with this - I think it's a great idea that simply needs a bit of leeway in certain areas!

Reaper is meant to be about Challenge NOT Power Creep!

[Wizza]

Noone wants Powercreep, but you misunderstand how hard even Heroic quests are on 10 skulls. My toon was 1-shotted in Heroic Abbot.

I couldn't care less about not getting XP if I'm way overlevel. I didnt even want XP to be involved in this mode in the first place.

[FranOhmsford]

The main issue people have is that this change only supports a handful of quests and raids at level cap, which gets stale very quickly.
I get that scaling every quest to level 30 and then to reaper would be to much work.

Level 28 quests[edit]
Brothers of the Forge • The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar • Tower of Frost
Level 29 quests[edit]
Desecrated Temple of Vol (epic) • Flesh Maker's Laboratory (epic) • Ghosts of Perdition (epic) • Inferno of the Damned (epic)
Level 30 quests[edit]
Ascension Chamber • Defiler of the Just • Demon Assault • Fire on Thunder Peak • Grim and Barett • Multitude of Menace • Subversion • Tavern Brawl (quest) • Temple of Elemental Evil Part One • Temple of Elemental Evil Part Two • Temple of the Deathwyrm • The Archons' Trial • The Devil's Details • The Mark of Death • The Mask of Deception
Level 31 quests[edit]
Assault on the Aerie of the Slave Lords • Creeping Death • Good Intentions • Memoirs of an Illusory Larcener • Search and Rescue • Secret of the Slavers' Stockade • Slave Pits of the Undercity • To Curse the Sky
Level 32 quests[edit]
Hound of Xoriat • Legendary Hound of Xoriat • Legendary Tempest's Spine • The Codex and the Shroud

How many fingers do you have if you consider that a Handful?

There's just no playerbase to support running specific quests at very restricted level ranges, if the mode is "balanced party required". You need a point that catches most, and that is the level cap (I mean that's how it works in pretty much every game with an actual end game I have played).

Reaper shouldn't be about Grinding XP!
Reaper shouldn't be the next default difficulty setting for players to congregate in!

Reaper should be for the Challenge!
And you don't go into Reaper if you're not ready for that Challenge {Ready in this case denoting that if you need a group you d@rn well WAIT for a Group NOT go IP!}.


Guilds and Static Groups - That's what Reaper is for!
Pugs will exist but pugging players should expect to have to wait for at least 2-3 more before going IP!

[FranOhmsford]

Noone wants Powercreep, but you misunderstand how hard even Heroic quests are on 10 skulls. My toon was 1-shotted in Heroic Abbot.

I forgot a Caveat - Raids should be EXEMPT or have a much wider Range allowed depending on the Raid.

Even on Elite Abbot can and has wiped Epic Groups never mind Reaper so I'd have no problems with Accursed Ascension specifically being Exempt from this Cap.

And yes Abbot is a Raid NOT a Quest!

[Eth]

How many fingers do you have if you consider that a Handful?

That's 1/10th of all quests in DDO.

[Saekee]

I was planning to farm Braza's Hat (Where There's Smoke) with a capped toon to get the reaper stacking boost to stats. So I can't engage in this powercreep plan of mine. Good!

[Wizza]

But then again, why are you against Reaper being done overlevel? We don't get XP, and the loot that may drop with Reaper bonus is insignifact in those quests. So what's your argument about us having every single quest of ddo available instead of the 24 that they chose with this system?

Our ass was kicked even in Servants 10, and thats a fun quest.

[FranOhmsford]

But then again, why are you against Reaper being done overlevel? We don't get XP, and the loot that may drop with Reaper bonus is insignifact in those quests. So what's your argument about us having every single quest of ddo available instead of the 24 that they chose with this system?

Read the post above yours.

Our ass was kicked even in Servants 10, and thats a fun quest.

And should be even more fun for you when you complete it on AT LEVEL toons!