Everything is Nothing DC

[Gannicus]

Hey quick question reading the wiki t doesnt say anything adds to the dc of EiN so I am wondering has that changed with any of the updates so that stunning modifiers or combat mastery gear add? Or at he very least does fighrer past lives dc bonus work or the +6 tactics from legendary dreadnought add or even the +3 dc from the GMoF cores?

Because just running some numbers I am looking at a capped out 74 Wis which at level 30 gives me a mear 66 DC which isnt going to get me far in end game.

Thanks for any help.

[Mr_Helmet]

Because just running some numbers I am looking at a capped out 74 Wis which at level 30 gives me a mear 66 DC which isnt going to get me far in end game.

Thanks for any help.

Get more Wisdom? 74 is kinda low in the current meta.

It won't help that much, I'm fairly certain the devs don't want you clearing rooms of mobs in LE Shroud with EIN.

[Selvera]

While my build was not DC focused and I wasn't even at cap (I think my DC was something like 50 or 55 on the tooltip), I did use and enjoy EiN for quite a few epic levels.

It is true that I was not landing it very often in EE or LE content, the majority of enemies saved against EiN unless I dropped down difficulties or ran things over level. However, even on a save EiN is still 1,000 AoE damage and a no-save 6 second paralyze. And, the one time I tried it on the crystal in legendary shroud, it worked.

So it is useful in end-game (unless legendary shroud is no longer end game?) The only question is if it is useful enough to be a 25-charge to charge up top-tier epic destiny capstone end game.

[Selvera]

Get more Wisdom? 74 is kinda low in the current meta.

It won't help that much, I'm fairly certain the devs don't want you clearing rooms of mobs in LE Shroud with EIN.

I'm going to disagree with this a fair amount.

For starters, how is 74 wisdom kind of low? I'm still trying to figure this one out; what I've come up with so far:
18 Base, 7 Level ups, 17 Enhancement, 7 Insightful, 4 Quality, 1 Exceptional, 2 Profane, 2 Festive, 7 Tome, 6 Triple Completionist, 2 Guild, 2 artifact = 75 wisdom

And that includes a lot of things which take a long time (Triple completionist) to get or costs money (+7 tome) or is available for a limited time only (festive). This assumes starting with maximum wisdom and taking it every levelup (might not be ideal for someone in GMoF) and having a full set of high-quality random loot or cannith crafted loot, mixed in with slavers gear.

Secondly, EiN scales with half wisdom, so say through some buffs I didn't think of which are magically easy for everyone to get and use permanently you get 90 wisdom consistantly; that's only a +8 DC, so is 74 a DC where you'll wipe out an entire room of enemies in LE raids? If yes, then the 66DC should be good enough to kill half of them at least. If no, then it's not like all that investment getting to 90 wisdom for EiN was paying off is it?

Thirdly, what is the huge problem with EiN wiping out a whole group of enemies in LE shroud? EiN is an ability with a 5 minute cooldown that costs 50 ki to activate and at least 250 ki to charge up (likely at least double that). It is also an epic moment. The closest other ability in the game is Hurl through Hell, which can hit 10+ enemies during that same cooldown with a higher DC and effects all the same enemies as EiN. Certainly if they intend Hurl to work in LE shroud, EiN is also intended to work.

[Irongutz2000]

I'm going to disagree with this a fair amount.

For starters, how is 74 wisdom kind of low? I'm still trying to figure this one out; what I've come up with so far:
18 Base, 7 Level ups, 17 Enhancement, 7 Insightful, 4 Quality, 1 Exceptional, 2 Profane, 2 Festive, 7 Tome, 6 Triple Completionist, 2 Guild, 2 artifact = 75 wisdom

U do not get 6 from triple completionist....thats not how that works. Also in ur math ur forgetting about enhancements , capstone , and destiny.

I feel ein is way underpowered compared to dreadnaught. The cool down is to long for it to be good. Also i have a 74 ein dc , with 78 wisdom in air , at 82 wisdom in water my ein is 76, which worked fairly well , every 5 mins...............

[Selvera]

I'm confused as to how acute instincts is working on a monk; Barbarian past life feat?

So, that aside, I see how you can get 99 wisdom for a DC 84 EiN, which according to the above, is good enough to destroy nearly anything. However, doing this requires farming all of the relevant end-game, festive and raid gear possible on a completionist character with full tomes who then gimps their build to cherrypick wisdom*.

The question is if there is a middle ground which is effective all the time and not just once every 5 minutes; while being accessible to some people who haven't acquired every item in the game? According to the above poster this is possible (although it requires some significant investment still), which is encouraging.

And that puts me back at my original assumption: EiN is useful, but it doesn't quite stack up when compared to the top-tier abilities in other epic destanies all things considered.

(*getting 6 wisdom out of GMoF means you won't even be able to get all the abilities which are used to charge up EiN, and leave very few points for anything useful in the tree, twists are quite useful which you'd be giving up for 3 wisdom = less then 1 DC, and getting that much from enhancements requires one specific race in one of 2/3 enhancement trees of the monk class and relies on short duration buffs; and I'm sure that getting that much wisdom from enhancements will force you into picking a bunch of enhancements which are sub-optimal. As for putting level ups into wisdom means you're giving up about 4 damage per hit for a trade of nearly +2DC

However, assuming a pure monk I'll agree a wis of 80-90 could be reasonable with said gear/tomes/etc. Certainly 70-80 is pretty good.)

[Steve_Howe]

My BF Monk has an 80 WIS and a 75 EiN DC. Remember EiN is a WILL save which, for many mobs (even on LE and EE), is a hard save to make.

OP, don't gimp your build by trying to get a 100 WIS. It's just not worth it. A 75 EiN DC works just fine.

FYI...Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm also charge EiN.

Regarding your original question, neither Combat Mastery (of any sort) or + to Stunning adds to EiN's DC. Anything that adds to "Tactics." does.

[SirValentine]

18 Base, 7 Level ups, 17 Enhancement, 7 Insightful, 4 Quality, 1 Exceptional, 2 Profane, 2 Festive, 7 Tome, 2 Completionist, 2 Guild, 2 artifact, 2 Yugo, 6 ED, 4 Stance, 6 Primary monk enhancement tree, 2 secondary monk enhancement tree, 1 third enhancement tree, 1 human, 3 action surge, 2 acute instincts twist, 2 wisdom twist = 100 wisdom self-buffed

All that, and add 2 more base (Deep Gnome) and 2 more from Lasting Potions (from Remnants, no need to spend $$$ on Store potions unless you want) easily enough.

If really want to go crazy, you could have 2 more Twists, plus up to 4 Epic feats, and +2 Exceptional (for increase of 1) on a LGS weapon, and +2 Alchemical on an Alchemical weapon.

I'm confused as to how acute instincts is working on a monk; Barbarian past life feat?

Drink a Rage potion? Is there a reason that doesn't work on Monks? It works for a Wis-based caster.

...I am wondering has that changed with any of the updates so that stunning modifiers or combat mastery gear add? Or at he very least does fighrer past lives dc bonus work or the +6 tactics from legendary dreadnought add or even the +3 dc from the GMoF cores?

It's a fair question, and I don't know the answer.

I doubt Stun bonuses would or should help, but it seems reasonable that maybe generic tactics bonuses ought to.

[Selvera]

All that, and add 2 more base (Deep Gnome) and 2 more from Lasting Potions (from Remnants, no need to spend $$$ on Store potions unless you want) easily enough.

If really want to go crazy, you could have 2 more Twists, plus up to 4 Epic feats, and +2 Exceptional (for increase of 1) on a LGS weapon, and +2 Alchemical on an Alchemical weapon.



Drink a Rage potion? Is there a reason that doesn't work on Monks? It works for a Wis-based caster.

And now we've bought a +1 heart of wood for the pure monk deep gnome, more temporary buffs and we're a monk who doesn't have the ninja spy capstone dual wielding (probably short-swords, as the only other option is Kama's.) It's kind of impressive, but also becoming even more unreasonable for the "average" player (is there an "average" player?).

Unsure of if a rage pot would work. It didn't sound like rage pot actually sends you into a rage from the description, but if you've tested it for wis casters I'll guess it does work for EiN. As for if anything monk disables it... Not sure, certainly they have plenty of options which are and/or were mutually exclusive with abilities that were also mutually exclusive to rage, which would suggest that they might also be mutually exclusive to rage, but I'm not sure if any of them explicitly states that the monk cannot be raged... (and/or can be worked around if they are)

[Gannicus]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. And yes I am aware that a higher wisdom is possible I just meant for my theory build I would be hitting 74 wisdom capped out with gear plan. As you can not use wisdom to damage (YET, hint hint devs) it is not viable to continue past that point.

It is good to hear that general tactics boosts should help so if I grab 3 fighter pl's plus the +3 from cores and twist the +6dc from LD that brings me to a 78 DC which sounds much more reasonable. Thanks all

[Steve_Howe]

It is good to hear that general tactics boosts should help so if I grab 3 fighter pl's plus the +3 from cores and twist the +6dc from LD that brings me to a 78 DC which sounds much more reasonable. Thanks all

Yes, those would work to add to EiN DC.