Current undetermined stuff in DDO: need some dev input

[Helmer]

In those case are they using any questionable mechanics?

No they are not, and still they perform as good or even better then many non WAI builds like wolf, shuriken, shiradi zombies ect. But lets kill diversity and all play the next class they buff through the roof, seen the latest monk dps vid on youtube? Doing 16k crits after they gave them 3 more W lol imho that is not WAI xD

[Mr_Helmet]

No they are not, and still they perform as good or even better then many non WAI builds like wolf, shuriken, shiradi zombies ect. But lets kill diversity and all play the next class they buff through the roof, seen the latest monk dps vid on youtube? Doing 16k crits after they gave them 3 more W lol imho that is not WAI xD

I think I get your point . . . the WAI stuff is so ridiculous so why care about the non-WAI stuff.

Right?

[Vint]

Can we just go back to complaining about WL's ruining the game please? We don't need the devs messing around with my wolf build and another little project.

[Helmer]

I think I get your point . . . the WAI stuff is so ridiculous so why care about the non-WAI stuff.

Right?

Exactly =D the non WAI stuff was OP, but now every class they buff is just as OP or worse!

[BigErkyKid]

Exactly =D the non WAI stuff was OP, but now every class they buff is just as OP or worse!

I am afraid you have fallen prey to your evil twin Mr Helmet.

[Helmer]

I mean who will be playing in AON ED if tree build gets nerfed? Who will make a melee druid if they nerf wolf? Why is no one playing an EK mage build at cap? Cus it sucks! Instead of nerfing fun and unorthodox builds, i say we buff the rest of the stuff to the same OP levels as everything else xD

[Sam-u-r-eye]

+1 op

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I mean who will be playing in AON ED if tree build gets nerfed? Who will make a melee druid if they nerf wolf? Why is no one playing an EK mage build at cap? Cus it sucks! Instead of nerfing fun and unorthodox builds, i say we buff the rest of the stuff to the same OP levels as everything else xD

+1 vet from 09 who has posted little

[Mr_Helmet]

I am afraid you have fallen prey to your evil twin Mr Helmet.

I am my own evil twin.

[LavidDynch]

No they are not, and still they perform as good or even better then many non WAI builds like wolf, shuriken, shiradi zombies ect. But lets kill diversity and all play the next class they buff through the roof, seen the latest monk dps vid on youtube? Doing 16k crits after they gave them 3 more W lol imho that is not WAI xD

Your examples are wrong.

Monk would be going windstance and not fire for DPS vs a static kobold, no "juicy crits" in windstance.

Best Wolf I tried was 26.8 (~18k DPS) on the dummy.
Best Monk was 35.8 (~14k DPS)

Broken wolf is clearly a head using just these numbers.

[Coyopa]

Thanks for reporting this. However, this is a prime example of the kind of communication style I dislike. Shuri AA builds are super prevalent and yet we must find out whether they are wai on a side conversation in an event that only a few hundred people ever watch?

This kind of information should be posted somewhere very visible. I am not talking about obscure builds and minor things. All what I have listed in the op is extremely powerful and completely game changing. No one should have to wonder whether it is wai or not.

You're welcome. I agree that this should be easily discovered by the players as something known by the developers as not WAI. I can't tell you the number of times I've seen the exact same question you posed in this thread posted on the forums in other threads. And I end up finding them and responding with most of the information I provided this time, and much of the time other players choose not to believe me. The whole reason I even asked in DDOChat about it was because I was actually using the bug on a thrower life and I wanted to know for certain whether it was WAI or a bug. And that was prompted because I noticed the secondary imbues (the ones from the AA cores) don't apply to thrown weapons. I've also brought it up in the past as a "Hey, just so you know" kind of thing so that people aren't blind-sided if a fix comes in unannounced. I'm not against anyone doing this and it makes the build kind of fun. I just like people to know that this isn't WAI so that they aren't surprised too badly if they suddenly have to change their AP spend (and potentially their entire build).

[BigErkyKid]

You're welcome. I agree that this should be easily discovered by the players as something known by the developers as not WAI. [...] I'm not against anyone doing this and it makes the build kind of fun. I just like people to know that this isn't WAI so that they aren't surprised too badly if they suddenly have to change their AP spend (and potentially their entire build).

There! It is just natural to want to know whether one can rely on our build working long term. Maybe someone can regear in a couple weeks, but for most of us it takes months to reacquire the necessary stuff (LGS, slavers, etc.).

Also, some more added to OP.

[Helmer]

Your examples are wrong.

Monk would be going windstance and not fire for DPS vs a static kobold, no "juicy crits" in windstance.

Best Wolf I tried was 26.8 (~18k DPS) on the dummy.
Best Monk was 35.8 (~14k DPS)

Broken wolf is clearly a head using just these numbers.

Its not even my exambles, its the same person who made the shiradi video, a simple search on youtube will do, and he is indeed in fire stance, pretty sure he testet both before posing final results..maybe your monk sucks? XD he kills the kobold in 20.3 sec iirc dont make me log on to gland to spank you in game with one of my old EU toons xD

[LavidDynch]

Its not even my exambles, its the same person who made the shiradi video, a simple search on youtube will do, and he is indeed in fire stance, pretty sure he testet both before posing final results..maybe your monk sucks? XD he kills the kobold in 20.3 sec iirc dont make me log on to gland to spank you in game with one of my old EU toons xD

his monk was 50ish. for the record. (Boss DPS-kobold) .. wolf has twice his DPS.

[BigErkyKid]

Common sense? In DDO?

Adrenaline works with crossbows and according to the devs is WAI.

I'm sorry, making sense doesn't rationalize anything in this game anymore.

C'mon man, don't you get it? You don't shoot an adrenaline bolt WITH the crossbow. That would be extremely stupid since it is a mechanical device and as such the strength comes from the mechanism and not from the creatures that yield it.

For you dummies who do not get it: you pick the freaking bolt and you through it like a dart.

Now please stop ruining the fantasy of the game with your silly logic. We get it, you are dumb enough to think that the game should remain coherent within its own set of fantasy rules. But don't inflict that pain on us.

/runs off to spam level 1 spells against the most powerful enemies in the game.

[Kebtid]

C'mon man, don't you get it? You don't shoot an adrenaline bolt WITH the crossbow. That would be extremely stupid since it is a mechanical device and as such the strength comes from the mechanism and not from the creatures that yield it.

For you dummies who do not get it: you pick the freaking bolt and you through it like a dart.

Now please stop ruining the fantasy of the game with your silly logic. We get it, you are dumb enough to think that the game should remain coherent within its own set of fantasy rules. But don't inflict that pain on us.

/runs off to spam level 1 spells against the most powerful enemies in the game.

Shuriken adrenaline makes more sense since you throw it and can put your force behind it, i always imagined the silly bow and repeat adrenaline to be like this:
I go fully raged with my full streng put a bolt onto my xbow and i scream like a lunatic while i press the trigger and my enraged scream fills the bolt with unimaginable force to crush any foe, and 3 times in row on a repeteater!
With bows i always thought if you pull the it that hard with adrenaline force it would snip and i wouldnt fire but have a broken bow in my hands. Because you know, rage and bow never go together.

[Helmer]

his monk was 50ish. for the record. (Boss DPS-kobold) .. wolf has twice his DPS.

Haha ok, yeah he did write not proper geared, so lets just take you times as exambles, the wolf is 4k dps ahead of the monk then, not twice the DPS..did you try a ranger? Im not trying to say it not OP since most things is atm in ddo, but just because something is not WAI does not automatically make it better then stuff working as intended.. hes shiradi might not be that well geared compared to others, but most melee destroy hes DPS kobold time.. even thou some will argue the shiradi procs might not be WAI.. and then there is a tree build vid doing around 14k DPS, is it WAI? No prob not, but we have rangers doing exactly the same kind of DPS.. we could nerf All these build options, and all play pure warlocks,rangers and monks! Or they could try make rest of the really bad stuff as good as the most OP builds, so we might see even more build diversity.? To WAI or not to WAI, that is the question xD

[Kebtid]

Haha ok, yeah he did write not proper geared, so lets just take you times as exambles, the wolf is 4k dps ahead of the monk then, not twice the DPS..did you try a ranger? Im not trying to say it not OP since most things is atm in ddo, but just because something is not WAI does not automatically make it better then stuff working as intended.. hes shiradi might not be that well geared compared to others, but most melee destroy hes DPS kobold time.. even thou some will argue the shiradi procs might not be WAI.. and then there is a tree build vid doing around 14k DPS, is it WAI? No prob not, but we have rangers doing exactly the same kind of DPS.. we could nerf All these build options, and all play pure warlocks,rangers and monks! Or they could try make rest of the really bad stuff as good as the most OP builds, so we might see even more build diversity.? To WAI or not to WAI, that is the question xD

Lavid did some optimization mistakes when he tested wolf /like for example using kta that doesnt work at all for wolf/ and he got a subpar time.
A properly geared wolf, properly played on a proper split is highest single target melle dps atm in ddo.
Didnt make a video myself but i can vouch for that from some tests on lama.
Thing is he did say "Best he tried" but not the best that can be built.
Best wraps monk you can build (even with some resets) isnt nearly close to best wolf atm.


Issue is that on said max dps split, your survival is utter garbage compared to other builds so its not really viable unless you slot in threat reduction gear or have a great tank.

[Helmer]

Lavid did some optimization mistakes when he tested wolf /like for example using kta that doesnt work at all for wolf/ and he got a subpar time.
A properly geared wolf, properly played on a proper split is highest single target melle dps atm in ddo.
Didnt make a video myself but i can vouch for that from some tests on lama.
Thing is he did say "Best he tried" but not the best that can be built.
Best wraps monk you can build (even with some resets) isnt nearly close to best wolf atm.


Issue is that on said max dps split, your survival is utter garbage compared to other builds so its not really viable unless you slot in threat reduction gear or have a great tank.

Sure im not here to discuss who can make the biggest and baddest wolf build =p does the dps needs to be toned down? Yeah think we can All agree, not just wolf builds. That is what they are doing in reaper any way, my issue is if they kill different builds/gameplay to make us all run the same build, in the same ED doing the same amount of damage.. Its the players who invented theese abominations, with the tools given by the devs to begin with! Would be a shame to kill them imho ????

[PermaBanned]

Common sense? In DDO?

Adrenaline works with crossbows and according to the devs is WAI.

I'm sorry, making sense doesn't rationalize anything in this game anymore.

Interesting, that you chose my example of a known-not-to-be-WAI functionality and used that as your example of "WAI." It isn't WAI for Ranged effects to proc Adrenaline, and it never was. Doing so was always a bug, but its one they let languish for soooooooo long that instead of "breaking builds" by fixing it they chose to "legitimize" the bug. Stating they will not fix a particular bug is not the same as saying "here's how we intended it to work."

For reference:

~ With the bug in certain Fury of the Wild enhancements, Manyshot and Ten Thousand Stars can be used to get back uses of Adrenaline. With the new reduced rate of fire of Manyshot and Ten Thousand Stars, utilizing this bug will be slightly less effective. We understand and have designed around this. We want to either legitimize this build by changing the wording on Fury Eternal so it officially supports ranged attacks or fix the bug, and we are looking forward to feedback on this from Lamannia.

It's precidant such as that which also leads me to wanting some clarification from the Devs as to which bugs will be fixed and which will be legitimized. Still, it's fairly easy to spot a functionality that is not intended (like things not titled Arcane Bolt or Arcane Blast charging MoK).