Some Info from todays tests

[Kebtid]

Will update once i do more content tomorrow.

Soloed low level epics on 10 skull, lod fathom, on a full time melee
Joined group for hh, finished 4 (or was it 3 skull?) and we wiped in 10 skull attempt at zombie spot (could had finished but we had no reliable cc which is prolly needed for it), did other random 10 skulls (some motus), will test more.

So to sum up some experience has been collected in this round.
Cannot test on raids/cannot test on higher tier content like slavers (my group of friends arent ingame atm so i have to join pugs and imho they arent optimal for such content thus why i soloed).


Anyways lets put the introduction behind.
The champ system is in its current form fun, random crowns that offer random amount of challenge force you to pick priority targets and tactically decide who to "stun" and kill first.
Question: Reaper 10 skull is intended to provide bosses and all red named as higher tier crown enemies at all times?
( i dont dislike that but randomizer can be a pita)
Some added buffs and some removed buffs put enemies in a state of unpredictability, enchancment ward, quake ward specific make some enemies quite intresting for cc players.

Question: Is the fom that some enemies spawn with in any way dispellable?

Issue 1:
I saw no enemy that is immune to tacticals, my dire charge was pretty much a no fail clutch save move vs fleshie targets.

Issue nm2:
Is there no enemy that spawns with nerve venom immunity?
I checkd thro many sorts of champ buffs from safe spots to see what was added and i didnt see that yet (maybe i didnt check enough?)

Issue nm3: This one is quite crucial, i do understand that reaper should be hard, but can you change how guards function on enemies?
Particulary i met enemies with force and light guard buffs, on every time i managed to land a hit on those mobs they would retalitate with 250 average force or light damage to me, there was no internal cd but on every hit so this heavily punishes melee builds, make that guard affect spells and ranged as well.

Issue nm4: Xp is same as on regular epic, will this be adjusted or is the xp going toward that reaper xp thing you have mentioned, any reveal on that feature?

Issue nm 5: As i have said, i have pulled mythic bonused items (specific is the armor in lod) and the bonus will not remain once the item is epicd. That whole system is rather pointless imho. Do something about it if you want to rejuvenate old gear.

Issue nm 6: Lays, enough said, in last previ and now (yes healing debuff is turned off, but lays shouldnt be able to heal yourself, i rely on them alot but i am not sure if its viable)


So far, overall it is alot of fun, you need to think tactically if you play on your build that is based on a specific flavor.
Issue i have with current system is that it doesnt punish ranged builds as much as it does for melees.
I Had a blast soloing 10 skulls, but from every quest i had always the same thought.
If i was ranged i could had avoided this death, or this death, or this death is pretty much a no escape as melee.
Imho atm in current form kiting is heavily promoted.
Change it, i like the spot melees are at, heavy dange with each encounter (dodge bypass mobs are fun, and when they have fortification bypass, dodge bypass and tseing you are dead no matter how much prr you got or hp)

I dislike the favor for ranged atm, current form is pretty much a shiradi fest for throwers or shiradi gibersh + maybe possibly 1 tank for red/bosses.
Keep the danger for melees but add some more for ranged and il say reaper is good.

[Jasparion]

Issue nm3: This one is quite crucial, i do understand that reaper should be hard, but can you change how guards function on enemies?
Particulary i met enemies with force and light guard buffs, on every time i managed to land a hit on those mobs they would retalitate with 250 average force or light damage to me, there was no internal cd but on every hit so this heavily punishes melee builds

Goodbye TWF builds.

[LavidDynch]

Agree with OP.

Was way more fun than I expected it to be, but why does DDO hate melee?

The guard thing that makes your toon to commit suicide is fun and games, but of course this only applies to melee.

edit.
Black Drow Guard hit me for 8k dmg on 10 skull TS. Anyone who was worried about power creep....

[Vanhooger]

Well if you already soloed many r10 quest I don't see this as something that will entertain me for long time. Really sad ??

[Kebtid]

Well if you already soloed many r10 quest I don't see this as something that will entertain me for long time. Really sad ??

Mutiple res-s with monk phoenix active some jibbers and couple cakes abuse vahno, and the most efficient melee build you can create atm (overvaan).
Also max fully buffed with close to maxed gear (some mythic items lacking)on a build that is purely defense focused with dps as byproduct and using all items at my disposal (cookies i gatherd over the years, temp buffs etc), most players would not be able to do it solo as a melee (in all honesty some hits are really brutal up to 2 -3 k thro 250 prr, i did complete some quests with 1-2 deaths but some had 6-7, it really isnt as easy as i make it sound as a melee, as a ranged i feel i would have a much easier time and proly be able to complete some content without a death).
Also i dont complain about ranged vs melee, just in current form i see absolutely no reason (esp with guards) to play a melee in reaper, this serves as a prewarning for people who plan to play that content or as a warning for devs to make the guard work on spells and ranged (honestly that is the only fair solution).
Lets assume a example in practical gameplay.
Lets say i run a unarmed monk, i attack with ww in a pack that someone ccd, one of those champ crown tier 3 mobs in that pack had that guard, lets say my ww procs 4 times, that is 4 hits and average 250 damage, i recieve 1000 force damage, even if we assume that i equip the cloack from thslayer and reduce that damage by 10% it is still 900 incoming damage that i need to somewhat handle.
Even if i stun or render that enemy helpless with jade prison the guard seems to still be active.
And dont let me started when a boss spawns with that guard.

ITs much easier to kite around as multiple ranged then to relly on a tank that can die anytime if a reaper puts debuffs on him and a champ passes by with fortification bypass.
Now if the guard was active on ranged as well, then i can imagine the need to drop shuri/shiradi builds since the guard also punishes current fotm melle builds since it could directly negate shuri toss and shiradi mm spam.
Equality for all in the fear from reaper xD

(some reapers have a debuff that makes you take 20% more damage per stack which can stack up to 100 times and stacks with vulnerability, some have dots that can tick up to 400 damage per tick //cant really mitigate it and i assume it goes higher but i would be either dead or have killed it before further stacks stacked, and if you add the overall damage income you get it really turns into a mess, some have tseing some have conceal bypass as a perma buff, some have dodge bypass as perma buff, so you cannot rely on a tank to survive hits, a fully dedicated tank can die in 2 hits like anyone else if unlucky with champ buffs or 1 hit if really unlucky).

There are couple abuse mechanics you can do, like oozes for example, a tosser build with lege ooze might be the best tank you can get in reaper atm since oozes scale and actually can tank more then any melee.
I like the iteration of reaper, but some changes need to be done, it should not promote ranged again.
Old epics were just like that (premotu), all blue bar raids(epics and everything actually).
We are running in circles as it is now.

I can adapt and play a ranged np, but im sure many players around here wont like that

[Vanhooger]

Mutiple res-s with monk phoenix active some jibbers and couple cakes abuse vahno, and the most efficient melee build you can create atm (overvaan).
Also max fully buffed with close to maxed gear (some mythic items lacking)on a build that is purely defense focused with dps as byproduct and using all items at my disposal (cookies i gatherd over the years, temp buffs etc), most players would not be able to do it solo as a melee (in all honesty some hits are really brutal up to 2 -3 k thro 250 prr, i did complete some quests with 1-2 deaths but some had 6-7, it really isnt as easy as i make it sound as a melee, as a ranged i feel i would have a much easier time and proly be able to complete some content without a death).
Also i dont complain about ranged vs melee, just in current form i see absolutely no reason (esp with guards) to play a melee in reaper, this serves as a prewarning for people who plan to play that content or as a warning for devs to make the guard work on spells and ranged (honestly that is the only fair solution).
Lets assume a example in practical gameplay.
Lets say i run a unarmed monk, i attack with ww in a pack that someone ccd, one of those champ crown tier 3 mobs in that pack had that guard, lets say my ww procs 4 times, that is 4 hits and average 250 damage, i recieve 1000 force damage, even if we assume that i equip the cloack from thslayer and reduce that damage by 10% it is still 900 incoming damage that i need to somewhat handle.
Even if i stun or render that enemy helpless with jade prison the guard seems to still be active.
And dont let me started when a boss spawns with that guard.

ITs much easier to kite around as multiple ranged then to relly on a tank that can die anytime if a reaper puts debuffs on him and a champ passes by with fortification bypass.
Now if the guard was active on ranged as well, then i can imagine the need to drop shuri/shiradi builds since the guard also punishes current fotm melle builds since it could directly negate shuri toss and shiradi mm spam.
Equality for all in the fear from reaper xD

(some reapers have a debuff that makes you take 20% more damage per stack which can stack up to 100 times and stacks with vulnerability, some have dots that can tick up to 400 damage per tick //cant really mitigate it and i assume it goes higher but i would be either dead or have killed it before further stacks stacked, and if you add the overall damage income you get it really turns into a mess, some have tseing some have conceal bypass as a perma buff, some have dodge bypass as perma buff, so you cannot rely on a tank to survive hits, a fully dedicated tank can die in 2 hits like anyone else if unlucky with champ buffs or 1 hit if really unlucky).

There are couple abuse mechanics you can do, like oozes for example, a tosser build with lege ooze might be the best tank you can get in reaper atm since oozes scale and actually can tank more then any melee.
I like the iteration of reaper, but some changes need to be done, it should not promote ranged again.
Old epics were just like that (premotu), all blue bar raids(epics and everything actually).
We are running in circles as it is now.

I can adapt and play a ranged np, but im sure many players around here wont like that

Now I feel bit better after your reply. I haven't had chance to try it myself, logged into lammania but was already 1am and had to go bed as I am working till late today, so I guess tonight will do some quest.

One question I have, a friend of mine told me that he was healing himself 1.1k with a single tick of consecration in r10 slavers part1..did they remove healing debuff or is it a bug?

[Kebtid]

Now I feel bit better after your reply. I haven't had chance to try it myself, logged into lammania but was already 1am and had to go bed as I am working till late today, so I guess tonight will do some quest.

One question I have, a friend of mine told me that he was healing himself 1.1k with a single tick of consecration in r10 slavers part1..did they remove healing debuff or is it a bug?

Coco said its a bug, think they reported it here as well and someone mentioned its a bug.
My selfheals are from lays and those should work even with heal debuf (should be nerfed and i asked devs that on lama).
I am not sure how potion selfhealing works, i think its unaffected even with heal change since its static values (i assume they changed positive spellpower formula, but if they changed amp formula as well then silver flame idea bye bye )

[FranOhmsford]

Mutiple res-s with monk phoenix active some jibbers and couple cakes abuse

OK Shouldn't cakes be disabled on Reaper? Like they are on Raids!

Players wanted REAL difficulty not just DDOStore difficulty!

[Vanhooger]

OK Shouldn't cakes be disabled on Reaper? Like they are on Raids!

Players wanted REAL difficulty not just DDOStore difficulty!

they shouldn't I agree, but I guess they want to make money out of it and oneshot kill is the best to sell that stuff.

In reality I don't know anyone in my guild who is willing to buy powerup from store just to do some reaper quest.

He was using a bunch of em just cos on lama are for free.

[Kebtid]

OK Shouldn't cakes be disabled on Reaper? Like they are on Raids!

Players wanted REAL difficulty not just DDOStore difficulty!

Without rushing and once you know mechanics you wont need em.
Esp if you use the tempbuff reaper only potions (i didnt use them, might try out today)
Keep in mind it was first timing on 10 skull as melee with no idea what to expect so deaths had to happen.
The selfres from monk and jibers both work in raids tho fran.
No idea if its viable but is a lifesaver when shortmaning raids or soloing.

Most important is to keep a eye on champ buffs and stun/cc threats (if for example some has forti or dodge bypass, those with reapers are top priority)

[Mr_Helmet]

. . . but why does DDO hate melee?

Because Sev wants everyone to play a warlock, he's almost there.

[FranOhmsford]

Without rushing and once you know mechanics you wont need em.
Esp if you use the tempbuff reaper only potions (i didnt use them, might try out today)
Keep in mind it was first timing on 10 skull as melee with no idea what to expect so deaths had to happen.

How does cheating on the testing help the Devs work on getting the difficulty right?

And sorry but bulldozing through with multiple cakes is not testing the content!

The selfres from monk and jibers both work in raids tho fran.

I didn't say they didn't, In fact I didn't say anything about either ability.

Jibbers however only brings you back for 1 minute after which you're dead again. {I don't see how this is helpful while soloing except in allowing you to reach a shrine}.

And frankly I'd consider a guaranteed 2 deaths a quest to be way too hard for my liking and wouldn't run that quest under those circumstances so OK Reaper 10 sounds like it;s getting there.
The only problem is - Getting there should be around Reaper 5/6 not Reaper 10 - Reaper 10 shouldn't be possible to Solo even for the best of the best player with the best of the best current gear {top build too of course but that should go without saying}.

Cakes should be disabled in Reaper Content - Anyone running Reaper should not want to be seen as having to use a Cake in the first place because Reaper is supposed to be about the challenge.

Most important is to keep a eye on champ buffs and stun/cc threats (if for example some has forti or dodge bypass, those with reapers are top priority)

Reaper 10 is I'm pretty certain going to be way beyond me.

But my point is that Reaper 10 should be way beyond everybody to solo - There should be no Bulldozing through it! - And beyond all but the very best groups in full Party too with current Gear.
Remember that Reaper 10 has to be Future Proof not just good for today and frankly that should go for Reaper 1-9 too unless you want 75% of the population ignoring Elite as well as N/H within 6 months!

[Vanhooger]

They said there would be some mechanic against ranged too, but so far I fail to see one.

[Kebtid]

How does cheating on the testing help the Devs work on getting the difficulty right?

And sorry but bulldozing through with multiple cakes is not testing the content!



I didn't say they didn't, In fact I didn't say anything about either ability.

Jibbers however only brings you back for 1 minute after which you're dead again. {I don't see how this is helpful while soloing except in allowing you to reach a shrine}.

And frankly I'd consider a guaranteed 2 deaths a quest to be way too hard for my liking and wouldn't run that quest under those circumstances so OK Reaper 10 sounds like it;s getting there.
The only problem is - Getting there should be around Reaper 5/6 not Reaper 10 - Reaper 10 shouldn't be possible to Solo even for the best of the best player with the best of the best current gear {top build too of course but that should go without saying}.

Cakes should be disabled in Reaper Content - Anyone running Reaper should not want to be seen as having to use a Cake in the first place because Reaper is supposed to be about the challenge.




Reaper 10 is I'm pretty certain going to be way beyond me.

But my point is that Reaper 10 should be way beyond everybody to solo - There should be no Bulldozing through it! - And beyond all but the very best groups in full Party too with current Gear.
Remember that Reaper 10 has to be Future Proof not just good for today and frankly that should go for Reaper 1-9 too unless you want 75% of the population ignoring Elite as well as N/H within 6 months!

I agree that the difficulty is fun at first but lacks impact.
It punishes specific builds, promotes others, in its current form i am not happy with it.
It should be a difficult task for any build, you do have a 60 seconds timer for ress and when you move from stone to far away and reset the timer resets to 60 seconds again /a bug? no idea.
I wouldnt say it was trivial fran, it was hard, i am mostly sure that most people wont be capable to do it on a melee, on a ranged i can see at least the top 15% playerbase being able to solo 10 skulls now (not all but some, better players can do harder content).
It is possible to do some raids as well imo as pure ranged group (i assume omni should be capable with healing debuff gone to complete tspine on 10 skull with 10 shiradi somethings).
Keep in mind that due to gear optimization we wont get much gear upgrade with reaper so what we have now is what is top and should be able to compete in reaper.

I put this in ctrade a estimate but let me showcase it here.
From random pulls for mythic items on live i estimate that you get the most bonus item with best mythic addition in around 1/200 chance.
I go from chest pulls average for me guildie and friend who each farmed for specific items with a bot army.

So lets assume that drop rate of mythic bonus on reaper 10 skull is higher, lets say that the max bonus you can get is 1/100 chest pulls, you need to roll after that bonus is achieved for a reaper bonus, il assume that at reaper 10 that bonus as well is 1/200 since otherwise it would be easy to get, but lets be generous and go with 1/150 chest pulls.
So you first need to (keep in mind i use numbers from average 1000 pulls for random loot and i doubt they tweaked it for each piece of gear but used a general formula), to roll the mythic bonus then the reaper bonus.

That makes it 1/100 x 1/200 to get a item with max potential that upgrades your prr mrr by 3 or melle power ranged power by 3 or gives you 2 stats (if helm).

Would be 0.00005 or 0,005% (just averaging) to get the item you really want.
Now if we are generous with pulls and say that the mythic is 1/50 and the reaper is 1/100 you still need to pass 2 rolls,
1 being 0,02 and 2nd being 0,01 which is 0,0002 and a well lets say 0.02% drop chance. (and this is me being ultra generous) since they say you make 2 seperate rolls, 1 for mythic 1 for reaper.
(i dont mind it, the grindier something the longer it lives but powercreep wont happen with reaper)

[Xaxx]

Couple things relating to guards and casters at least....

I can think of atleast 15 spells that would pretty much auto kill the caster if thrown against one of those gaurds if you got your wish.

If you wish gaurds to work against caster and ranged then we need the enchantment ward and mind blank to work against mele also.... how about enchantment ward also function as a dispelling guard to or better yet a mordenkeins guard to. Come on if you MUST have something work against ranged then the things designed against ranged MUST work on mele to.... come on guys you need to throw ideas out to make that a reality also.

If guards are changed to work on ranged and casting.... this would be a fundamental coding change that would cascade to who knows where.... also should guards be changed like that... I can already see a lock/cleric/monk combo that could abuse the ever loving hell out of most quests with a scaling guard setup. Then when people we're complaining about that new cheese setup I do hope that you guys specifically are raising your hands as the targets for the piles of stuff that will be thrown by the forumites over those builds.... as they will be directly linked to your wishes for guard changes.

Just thought that you should be aware of the other side of the coin you wish to flip.... not everyone wants to look at tails when they start to talk.

[Mr_Helmet]

I can think of atleast 15 spells that would pretty much auto kill the caster if thrown against one of those gaurds if you got your wish.
.

I fail to see an issue.

[Kebtid]

Couple things relating to guards and casters at least....

I can think of atleast 15 spells that would pretty much auto kill the caster if thrown against one of those gaurds if you got your wish.

If you wish gaurds to work against caster and ranged then we need the enchantment ward and mind blank to work against mele also.... how about enchantment ward also function as a dispelling guard to or better yet a mordenkeins guard to. Come on if you MUST have something work against ranged then the things designed against ranged MUST work on mele to.... come on guys you need to throw ideas out to make that a reality also.

If guards are changed to work on ranged and casting.... this would be a fundamental coding change that would cascade to who knows where.... also should guards be changed like that... I can already see a lock/cleric/monk combo that could abuse the ever loving hell out of most quests with a scaling guard setup. Then when people we're complaining about that new cheese setup I do hope that you guys specifically are raising your hands as the targets for the piles of stuff that will be thrown by the forumites over those builds.... as they will be directly linked to your wishes for guard changes.

Just thought that you should be aware of the other side of the coin you wish to flip.... not everyone wants to look at tails when they start to talk.

I suggested a tactical ward alrdy, dire charge is to strong, that ability alone was the main reason why i completed some 10 skulls, but thing is everything hits you in melee, you are in a higher risk spot atm as melee.
As said, im a min/maxer i do not mind that at all, i will adapt and change to a ranged build.
But my idea of reaper was not 6 ranged kiting around but the trinity of heal tank dps.
Current guards and lama iteration promotes and will make every min/max player reconsider if he plays a melee character.
Ranged can avoid most if not all damage and stay out of harms way.
You name spells that can auto kill a caster, but imagine a ranger that used haste boost and meld /because lets say he thinks he needs dodge and wanted to be smart, uses 10 thousand cuts and attacks, forgot to check champ status, he is dead from that guard in 2 seconds /and as said i had bosses spawn with that thing, it was a painful experience .
Most melles cannot selfheal and cd timers on heals from supports wont be able to support a melle hiting a boss, you will be better off to pull out your throwing axe as a barb then to swing those 2 leg hpicks on a boss with guard buff.
A caster or tosser or any kind ranged does not face that risk.
The guards on mobs if possible should be made mobs only guards that inflict damage to whoever hits the mob.
(if they coded reaper aura im pretty sure they can adjust the guard as well, no need to overhaul player guards)

I am thinking about both sides, that is the thing, currently it is a ranged fest, anyone who plays or tried reaper im pretty sure can agree with me on that.
(and yet again, i do not mind that, i just want both parties to experience high risk gameplay, i want to group with people, i want to be a team player, i played support in many other mmorpgs in high end content and i want to play one in ddo, it feels better to be a op healer/support then a soloer and the current reaper is not what it should be, if everyone is equally punished and our flavor cheesy builds nerfed to the ground then we have a new standpoint where we can relearn game and adapt to a higher level of skill and roles specialization)

Not willing to argue but objectively presenting my view on reaper as a lets call it "elitist" and what i would like to be changed.
Sorry if i worded it incorrectly, hope you get what i am aiming for. (trinity fun and ultimate challenge, not just a kite/ress fest)

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Will update once i ...

+1 Keb. Great feedback. Good dude.

Issue nm3: This one is quite crucial, i do understand that reaper should be hard, but can you change how guards function on enemies?
Particulary i met enemies with force and light guard buffs, on every time i managed to land a hit on those mobs they would retalitate with 250 average force or light damage to me, there was no internal cd but on every hit so this heavily punishes melee builds, make that guard affect spells and ranged as well.

Those guards should stop scaling or be removed. It seems like the best solution given your discussion here.

There are couple abuse mechanics you can do, like oozes for example, a tosser build with lege ooze might be the best tank you can get in reaper atm since oozes scale and actually can tank more then any melee.

The oozes summoned by friendly players are scaling. My Ooze was hitting things for 6-10 k on 10 skull. It had more kills than everyone else in party.

OK Shouldn't cakes be disabled on Reaper? Like they are on Raids!

Players wanted REAL difficulty not just DDOStore difficulty!

+1. I agree.
There should also be a lockout on the quests.

[Loromir]

But my point is that Reaper 10 should be way beyond everybody to solo - There should be no Bulldozing through it! - And beyond all but the very best groups in full Party too with current Gear.
Remember that Reaper 10 has to be Future Proof not just good for today

I absolutely agree with this sentiment.

If anyone is soloing 10 skull Reaper....it's too easy. I don't care how many cakes and jibbers you use. 10 skull reapers should be impossible to solo...unless they plan to scale bast 10 skulls in the future (I pray not).

[Wizza]

There is only one guard champion buff, and it's the Mark of Law Tier 3. It is not the end of TWF, and Melees aren't gonna die if they don't hit this kind of Champion.

List of all the buffs available to Champions, including Tier 3 and Vulnerabilities