No Self Healing Debuff

[Jetrule]

Why is that do you think? I posted LFMs for a half dozen or so quests with not a single taker. Almost no one else was posting lfms either. Wouldn't people who want to provide feedback on reaper want to try playing in a party if possible since Reaper is being specifically designed for parties?

I suspect many like myself were running with a guild and or static group.

[Mr_Helmet]

Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
Is there some reason why you cant leave the testing server up over the weekend for those of us with jobs?



I didn't know that the game was ran off of Government Assistance , I thought it was paying customers that kept it going.
You know the PAYING CUSTOMERS , people with JOBS that invest in the game buy making purchases .

Was my sarcasm too subtle?

[Mr_Helmet]

I suspect many like myself were running with a guild and or static group.

I will never pug Reaper. No way in hell would I trust somebody I don't know with healing me. Ever.

[Arktanis]

It seems far easier to just nerf cocoon.

I always wondered why they just never made it non-self targetable, its in a Druid Tree who has a pet, summons, etc. Would make more sense, but I guess too many people would Q.Q about it.

[Mr_Helmet]

It seems far easier to just nerf cocoon.

THIS! Please, nerf the heck out of this if this is the problem instead of breaking the whole damned game.

[Vanhooger]

THIS! Please, nerf the heck out of this if this is the problem instead of breaking the whole damned game.

If you nerf only cocoon the game will be Bladforged and unded everywhere.

[Rys]

If you nerf only cocoon the game will be Bladforged and unded everywhere.

+1 (except I can't give you any rep sigh)

[Arktanis]

If you nerf only cocoon the game will be Bladforged and unded everywhere.

Or someone might actually start playing their healer builds again that have been sitting there doing nothing since like 2012.

*Gets ready to brush off cobwebs*

[KookieKobold]

- Check combat log to confirm, regular mob hits you for 45, champion hit you for 1740.

Any chance you recall what quest you were in and what type of champion it was?


Either of those bits of information will help us track down what may have been going on there.

[Cocomajobo]

We're bringing down Lamma for a short time now in order to update the build to resolve this issue as well as a couple other things. Will let you know when we're back up. =]

[Cocomajobo]

Lammania is now back up!

[Avantasian]

If you nerf only cocoon the game will be Bladforged and unded everywhere.

+1 (except I can't give you any rep sigh)

Nerf them as well then, still far easier and better than messing up the whole balance dynamic for a huge number of classes and builds.

[zehnvhex]

Any chance you recall what quest you were in and what type of champion it was?

I was referring to this guys post:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/newreply....eply&p=5919409

He had it happen in the new ToF quest in heroic. From what I understand those orcs are kinda weird as is. Someone else stated on epic difficulty they seem to have 100+ saves.

[zehnvhex]

Nerf them as well then, still far easier and better than messing up the whole balance dynamic for a huge number of classes and builds.

Honestly? Remove healing and temp hp from the game entirely imo. Just get rid of it. Mistakes are now costly and meaningful. HP is a resource you must conserve meticulously.

There! No more whining about people healing themselves! Problem solved!

[xaul17]

These arguments around self healing are pretty pointless if you ask me. Let's simplify things a bit:

Reaper is being designed for TEAM play. The developers make it clear what their intentions are when designing this gamemode, and although their definition of what team play is may not be the same as what YOURS is, the changes being made are in fact being put in place for a reason.

Now is the reason behind this good? That is arguable. My opinion is that it is very good, because it revives the game back to what it was before they released the epics as they are now, and it puts everyone on the level where they must strategize and think again when they enter a fight, and focus on the resources they have available in order to succeed in the quest. With the changes made within recent years to DDO, the self healing nerf (among other changes) was one of the best solutions, as it applies to reaper alone, and DOES NOT AFFECT OTHER DIFFICULTY MODES. That said, those who are not willing to adapt are going to have a very hard time getting completions on reaper difficulty, thus finding the gamemode very frustrating and tiresome. Needless to say, it is not for everyone, and I advise those who are not willing to adapt to stick with elites where they are comfortable.

Arguing against it and insisting that you are not willing to adapt only emphasizes that reaper mode isn't for you. Reaper isn't being designed around the self healing soloist, but instead a balanced party of skilled players who are seeking a challenge greater than what the game provides now. The developers (hopefully) will not make any changes to benefit the self-healing style of play, as it goes against what reaper is made for - so please stop causing drama over it!

Also, despite what you may think, there are players out there who are willing to adapt and are thoroughly excited to play reaper in action. I'd suggest gathering a group of players who you know well and creating a static group with them

^Note: Nothing I said above hasn't been said already by other players in this thread and other threads around this topic, but hopefully it summarizes things a bit.

[Mr_Helmet]

Now is the reason behind this good?

This goes against EVERYTHING DDO's done since 2011.

If the self-healing debuff is good, that means everything DDO's done since 2011 is terrible.

[Tlorrd]

Self healing divine tank that uses torc/concordant opposition/etc. is now useless. Build busted. (Not saying its a build anyone plays, but some do). The healer will just have to hope his group will toss him/her a cocoon from time to time.

[zehnvhex]

Damage being scaled down to 10% of max is really what will force you to group, not any sort of self healing nerf. That's just an added FU to any build that is set to be self-reliant. It's really, from the top down, a dumb idea. Let's break it down.

1 - If the amount of damage coming in is so light that rejuv/renew is enough to beat it, then you will not suddenly see an influx of dedicated divines. What you'll see is everyone twisting renew instead of rejuv since it's a much better heal and you just all heal each other as the damage comes in. This is pretty much how it is on live anyways in regular groups. If I have rejuv/renewal I toss it on whoever is hurt.

2 - If the amount of damage is so great that rejuv/renew can't keep up then a self healing character isn't going to rely on that to begin with and will have to rely on a dedicated healer -anyways-. The important thing here to note is that it will be -regardless- of whether or not he could self heal. Self healing (or the lack thereof) does not change the dynamic at all.

3 - The source of a heal doesn't really matter anyways. What does it matter WHO cast the heal? If you really wanted to force grouping, make it so that each player cannot do more then 21% of a mobs HP in damage. If you want to kill it you have to bring at least 5 people. BAM, GROUPING FORCED! It accomplishes the exactly same goal.

Let's make it pretty clear here that if Divines brought something to the table other then the ability to spam mass heal and greater resto they wouldn't have taken a back seat. Unfortunately DDO is designed such that wizards are far greater buffers/healers/specialists. Blur, otto's, mass hold, all the insta-kills, haste, etc...all these offer groups far more then what a Cleric can bring. Those spells will prevent more damage then a divine will ever heal.

Druids have EarthQuake and....that's about it for useful divine spells to benefit the party.

You want to encourage groups to bring Divines? Don't nerf healing. Give divines some useful stuff. 20% 'divine' haste. +4 'divine' bonus to stats. A special 'divine' hold person that works even on red/purple bosses, no save/no SR (lasts 3 seconds, 1 min cooldown, puts debuff on boss so no more then 2 can be cast per minute). +25% incorp 'divine' buff that even bypasses ghost touch. +10 mp/rp 'divine' buff. Replace all those crappy low level spells that have resistance or enhancement bonuses and make it a stacking 'divine' bonus. Make a higher level version of 'find traps' that is 'suppress traps' which when cast in an area prevents traps from activating for X seconds per divine level.

And so forth.

[Natashaelle]

damage being scaled down to 10% of max is really what will force you to group, not any sort of self healing nerf. That's just an added fu to any build that is set to be self-reliant. It's really, from the top down, a dumb idea. Let's break it down.

1 - if the amount of damage coming in is so light that rejuv/renew is enough to beat it, then you will not suddenly see an influx of dedicated divines. What you'll see is everyone twisting renew instead of rejuv since it's a much better heal and you just all heal each other as the damage comes in. This is pretty much how it is on live anyways in regular groups. If i have rejuv/renewal i toss it on whoever is hurt.

2 - if the amount of damage is so great that rejuv/renew can't keep up then a self healing character isn't going to rely on that to begin with and will have to rely on a dedicated healer -anyways-. The important thing here to note is that it will be -regardless- of whether or not he could self heal. Self healing (or the lack thereof) does not change the dynamic at all.

3 - the source of a heal doesn't really matter anyways. What does it matter who cast the heal? If you really wanted to force grouping, make it so that each player cannot do more then 21% of a mobs hp in damage. If you want to kill it you have to bring at least 5 people. Bam, grouping forced! It accomplishes the exactly same goal.

Let's make it pretty clear here that if divines brought something to the table other then the ability to spam mass heal and greater resto they wouldn't have taken a back seat. Unfortunately ddo is designed such that wizards are far greater buffers/healers/specialists. Blur, otto's, mass hold, all the insta-kills, haste, etc...all these offer groups far more then what a cleric can bring. Those spells will prevent more damage then a divine will ever heal.

Druids have earthquake and....that's about it for useful divine spells to benefit the party.

You want to encourage groups to bring divines? Don't nerf healing. Give divines some useful stuff. 20% 'divine' haste. +4 'divine' bonus to stats. A special 'divine' hold person that works even on red/purple bosses, no save/no sr (lasts 3 seconds, 1 min cooldown, puts debuff on boss so no more then 2 can be cast per minute). +25% incorp 'divine' buff that even bypasses ghost touch. +10 mp/rp 'divine' buff. Replace all those crappy low level spells that have resistance or enhancement bonuses and make it a stacking 'divine' bonus. Make a higher level version of 'find traps' that is 'suppress traps' which when cast in an area prevents traps from activating for x seconds per divine level.

And so forth.

qft

[Vanhooger]

These arguments around self healing are pretty pointless if you ask me. Let's simplify things a bit:

Reaper is being designed for TEAM play. The developers make it clear what their intentions are when designing this gamemode, and although their definition of what team play is may not be the same as what YOURS is, the changes being made are in fact being put in place for a reason.

Now is the reason behind this good? That is arguable. My opinion is that it is very good, because it revives the game back to what it was before they released the epics as they are now, and it puts everyone on the level where they must strategize and think again when they enter a fight, and focus on the resources they have available in order to succeed in the quest. With the changes made within recent years to DDO, the self healing nerf (among other changes) was one of the best solutions, as it applies to reaper alone, and DOES NOT AFFECT OTHER DIFFICULTY MODES. That said, those who are not willing to adapt are going to have a very hard time getting completions on reaper difficulty, thus finding the gamemode very frustrating and tiresome. Needless to say, it is not for everyone, and I advise those who are not willing to adapt to stick with elites where they are comfortable.

Arguing against it and insisting that you are not willing to adapt only emphasizes that reaper mode isn't for you. Reaper isn't being designed around the self healing soloist, but instead a balanced party of skilled players who are seeking a challenge greater than what the game provides now. The developers (hopefully) will not make any changes to benefit the self-healing style of play, as it goes against what reaper is made for - so please stop causing drama over it!

Also, despite what you may think, there are players out there who are willing to adapt and are thoroughly excited to play reaper in action. I'd suggest gathering a group of players who you know well and creating a static group with them

^Note: Nothing I said above hasn't been said already by other players in this thread and other threads around this topic, but hopefully it summarizes things a bit.

This.

If you don't want to adapt stick to elite and stop ask for nerf.

It's hilarious for how long we asked for something difficult and now all those complaint about being difficult..lol

Reaper is designed around people who want challenge, if you don't want it stay out of it, nobody is forcing you to play it.

Some build may not work in reaper, but some build that work in reaper will not work outside of it, so where is exactly the problem?

Self healing is adding on team coordination despite whatever you guys will say and restrain people from zerg even in low skull since you're going to die if nobody is around you.

As well no self heal, no solo completion, only team effort will give you a completion.