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  1. #41
    Community Member Requiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Helmet View Post
    The on-hit damage guards are far too punitive to melees. Remove them or give the proc a timer to not be every hit.

    Better yet, give them a timer ONLY for melee and have them trigger off every ranged attack and spell.
    This effect is ok. Only 3/20 have this ability. Melees should also feel pain against some champions. Not only (mostly?) spell casters (death/mind blocks and True Seeing)
    What I miss is Deflect Arrow feat, that will be great against ranged characters (ranged is the only one that have no directly for them debuff on champions)
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by stoerm View Post
    Player remembers. Player never forgets.
    I'm not native speaker

  2. #42
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    @Devs: thanks for the responses. Cordovan, you're a tease. Bad Community Manager! No Cookies!

    It would be super if you could go back and put the vulnerabilities in the table though. I don't care if T3 is a mystery, as long as we can find out by mouseovering a buff icon, and the text being clear.

    In general:

    I would prefer to see fewer True Seeings and some kind of PRR penetration.

    I'm not in favour of putting in See Invisibility as well as True Seeing. True Seeing challenges a wide range of things - invisizergers and those who rely on avoidance rather than absorption. See Invisibility only affects one of those. Putting both in means you are targeting Invisizergers, and I don't think that's at all fair. I can't seem to pull off invisizerging, so props to those who can. I have no problem with them, there's plenty of mobs in the game which already defeat that tactic anyway.

    But because True Seeing affects such a wide range of commonly relied on playstyle elements, there should not be too many occurrences, especially if there is nothing in the mix that is targeting specifically the other commonly used defensive type, i.e. PRR.

    So I think reducing the instances of True Seeing by half and replace with the same number of PRR-penetration buffs in the same Tiers as were occupied by predecessors. That seems pretty fair (code-willing).


    Also: I agree that I prefer the current situation where CC options have a much stronger chance to work than instakill vs champs, and I think right now I think you could do with one or two fewer mindblocks (not necessarily more deathblocks, I just don't think mindblock belongs in Tier 1).



    Overall though, as I said: I do like the concept.
    Last edited by dunklezhan; 01-11-2017 at 12:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge
    Quote Originally Posted by Amundir View Post
    My words are great. Even out of context.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-u-r-eye View Post
    was curious, and posted here for others ( http://ddowiki.com/page/Mind_Block )
    will this block bluff?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-u-r-eye View Post
    9/20 have true seeing

    This disables invis runs.
    Does this affect sneaking toons?
    Sneaking toons use invisi while sneaking too
    Quote Originally Posted by changelingamuck View Post
    True Seeing has never affected stealthing characters. Personally, I'm happy to see invis-cheesing whittled away at in any way possible. Stealth relies upon investment in skills, gear, ability score/enhancements/whatever else. Invis-cheesing just requires a scroll.
    Quote Originally Posted by changelingamuck View Post
    It can be both.

    Displacement is in an unfortunate position. It was supposed to provide a potent defensive benefit to arcane casters since they lacked defensive capabilities possessed by other classes (which is why it was changed to self-cast-only from being capable of also targeting allies).

    The creation of displacement clickies was, IMO, the single worst decision regarding game balance in the history of DDO. Imagine if all of the mobs had displacement, characters didn't have true seeing, and character power had to be balanced around that. I can't blame them for handing out lots of True Seeing. Characters with extremely high PRR can have displacement whenever they like making it necessary to balance content against that. It's supposed to be for squishies. I'd prefer it if displacement clickies had never existed or at least if they were made exclusive, but I don't see that happening.
    The Union of Dragonmarked Elves hereby Protests this nerf to our blood heritage!

  4. #44
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Made a new thread with complete table, for anyone interested:

    HERE
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  5. #45
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post

    Sneaking toons use invisi while sneaking too
    Good point, and it reinforces mine, so I'll revise something I said:

    True Seeing challenges a wide range of things - invisizergers, many sneaking based characters, and those who rely on avoidance rather than absorption

    TS affects an even wider sets of playstyles. Including it and see invis still targets one set unfairly over another.

    Though I suppose you could argue that this means you have three "defensive" playstyles (excluding ranged): avoidance of combat, avoidance of damage and absorption of damage (I know this also includes some avoidance, but for the sake of simplicity...).

    TS affects two of those, nothing particularly affects the third except generic 'I do more damage' which affects everyone who gets hit anyway. TS and SI would affect two, and one, respectively and still nothing affecting the third.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge
    Quote Originally Posted by Amundir View Post
    My words are great. Even out of context.

  6. #46
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Sneak builds use invis as more of an extra layer of protection against mobs to not spot them. If these builds don't have the necessary skills to sneak past mobs successfully than I have no problem with a lot of Champs having True Seeing so maybe these players put more investment into those sneak skills.

    Also, there is an abundance of blur and displacement at the players disposal. I warned about giving special class abilities so freely to other classes and now here we are with the devs trying to balance it out.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  7. #47
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    Where are immunities to trip, stunning blow, dire charge, bards freeze thing etc?
    Please make that blank mind = immunity to all those things. Oh and dont forget the nerv venom thing.

    While at it, please make that deathblock prevenets all death effects, not only wizard ones (hurl e.g.)

  8. #48
    Community Member zehnvhex's Avatar
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    Yeah I'm looking through the list and Evard's and Dire Charge are just going to rip through these mobs.

    Also disappointing at the lack of rewards for killing a red crown. I think something like

    Yellow crown: 25% chance of chest, 50% chance of remnant
    Orange crown: 50% chance of chest, 100% chance of remnant
    Red crown: 100% chance of chest, 100% chance of remnant

    is long overdue.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ddo
    Building a Better DDO

  9. #49
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    looking over the list I do have to say it makes more sense now what buffs Champions get. it will be easier to spot which Champs do generally what damage. however, since I personally only really had any real issues with specific Champions it looks like I just need to worry about 2-3 of them. based on the descriptions of the plane, I wonder if this affects certain creatures like Beast Mark affecting animals only. if so, than its just that much easier to figure out.

    Beast Mark because of dodge bypass, but that's more for my ranger and barbarian to worry about despite able to get decently high PRR without trying. I could see this more of an issue maybe with monks or rogues.

    Infernal Pact because of fort bypass which is the most dangerous Champion buff for me affecting all of my characters.

    Mark of Chaos because its random. I assume its a random Champion buff which means a chance at fort bypass and dodge bypass. probably would still treat them like any other Champion until I come across one with one of the 2 buffs that I really need to look out for.

    the only thing that really worries me is the reduction in Champion damage to account for new abilities. does that mean Champions deal less damage than they do now?
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  10. #50
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    based on the descriptions of the plane, I wonder if this affects certain creatures like Beast Mark affecting animals only. if so, than its just that much easier to figure out.
    Not the case. From my runs, every champion can be everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Mark of Chaos because its random. I assume its a random Champion buff which means a chance at fort bypass and dodge bypass. probably would still treat them like any other Champion until I come across one with one of the 2 buffs that I really need to look out for.

    the only thing that really worries me is the reduction in Champion damage to account for new abilities. does that mean Champions deal less damage than they do now?
    Mark of Chaos is fun. Encountered a champion with 4 absorbs, Vulnerable to Fire, True sight and another ability.

    Champions still have the I deal more damage buff.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  11. #51
    Community Member Annex's Avatar
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    Would it be possible for us to get a new spell, perhaps called Soul Seeing or Soul Sight, that allows an affected character to see the aura of a Champion, thus illuminating the Champion with a light aura corresponding to its nature? I am thinking of something like the visual portion of the Heroic Inspiration buff in LotRO. In that game, while your character is under Heroic Inspiration, she glows with a pale, white light. In this game, while under the affects of Soul Sight, your character would see Monster Champions glow with such an aura, but the aura color would indicate the Champion's plane of attunement. This would allow our characters to immediately identify Monster Champions, their nature through the color of the glow, and perhaps their strength through the intensity of the glow.

    Perhaps we could gain access to the spell via a piece of equipment from the Mysterious Remnants trader, potions from Festivals, and so forth. Right now, having to stop and mouse over a Champion to examine buffs is often problematic, especially when the Champion spawns right on top of you. With a spell to see their auras, we could make immediate adjustments in a fight without having to stop and look, at the cost of having to memorize which auras mean what. Those of us without supercharacters would still need to think and adjust tactics, but we could do so while playing the game at a faster pace.

    Edit: If it is too hard to add a glow, maybe the interior color of a crown could change to match the plane of attunement, but only when under the influence of Soul Sight.

    Edit: You could also add an Augment of Soul Sight.
    Last edited by Annex; 01-11-2017 at 06:05 PM.

  12. #52
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Just on PRR bypass suggestions.

    I'm not sure if the people suggesting this have gone through the mechanics of the PRR formula, but a buff that says "This monsters attacks bypass 75 PRR" actually hurts lower PRR characters more than it hurts higher PRR characters.

    A 300 raw damage hit would go from 300 to 600 damage (for a player with 0 inherent PRR).

    The same hit would go from 200 to 300 damage against a player with 75 PRR.

    Finally, it would go from 100 to 120 damage against a player with 300 PRR (ridiculous example to make a point).

    ___________________________

    The thing you are looking for is:

    "This attack damages players as though their PRR is 50% lower than it actually is".

    This mechanic would have the following impact on a 300 raw damage hit:

    0 PRR: 300 damage with or without this effect

    75 PRR: 200 damage without the effect, 240 damage with it

    300 PRR: 100 damage without the effect, 150 damage with it.


    ___________________________

    On other ideas:

    These are intended to favor melee players (by endangering character archetypes that remain at range, while being relatively harmless for melees)

    "This monster is heavily resistant or immune to damage unless the source of that damage is within a Haste radius"

    "Retributive guard effect: Upon melee or ranged hit, the attacking player/creature suffers -50% move speed for 6 seconds"

    "Nova: Upon being brought to 50% of maximum HP, this monster unleashes a massive nova effect, which deals significant damage to all hostiles within 90 metres, including around corners. However, there is a safe spot - within a Haste radius of the Nova's caster."
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  13. #53
    Community Member Ballyspringer's Avatar
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    This may be wrong, but to me this really is more pigeonholing more people into even more of the same builds.

    Two examples although there are plenty of more:
    Want a faster melee toon like a elf(or wizard/lock splash) monk/ranger/fighter/rogue who uses displace to make up for getting 100-150 prr in light armor - nope TS abound
    Want to make a full necro caster reliant on insta kills and death spells (for flavor) sorry a lot of DB


    It really seems that they just want all melee running around in heavy armor with 200+ prr using dire charge and all casters to start heading back to the days when the shiradi spam was the way to go - mostly direct force/sonic/untyped dmg instead of using 90% of the abilities/spells out there like elemental dmg and CC

    I love champs in the game for the most part - I think it's an added dimension of fun (although getting a champ down in the maze in tomb of the tormented for your rats to try to kill sucks) - but why set them out to kill specific builds/features of the game instead of just being harder hitting versions of what they are?

    And to those who say invisi-runs are a huge issue now, for the life of me I don't see it.
    My reality needs imagination like a bulb needs a socket. My imagination needs reality like a blind man needs a cane. - Tom Waits

  14. #54
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballyspringer View Post
    This may be wrong, but to me this really is more pigeonholing more people into even more of the same builds.

    Two examples although there are plenty of more:
    Want a faster melee toon like a elf(or wizard/lock splash) monk/ranger/fighter/rogue who uses displace to make up for getting 100-150 prr in light armor - nope TS abound
    Want to make a full necro caster reliant on insta kills and death spells (for flavor) sorry a lot of DB


    It really seems that they just want all melee running around in heavy armor with 200+ prr using dire charge and all casters to start heading back to the days when the shiradi spam was the way to go - mostly direct force/sonic/untyped dmg instead of using 90% of the abilities/spells out there like elemental dmg and CC

    I love champs in the game for the most part - I think it's an added dimension of fun (although getting a champ down in the maze in tomb of the tormented for your rats to try to kill sucks) - but why set them out to kill specific builds/features of the game instead of just being harder hitting versions of what they are?

    And to those who say invisi-runs are a huge issue now, for the life of me I don't see it.
    Only Champions have Deathblock and Reaper T3 has only 5 out of 20 planes with Deathblock. Which means 80% of the quest can be instakilled.

    I do agree on Shiradi and True Sight.

    I also think Champions spawn rate is too wide right now. Some runs had very few, some runs had a lot of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  15. #55
    Community Member Ballyspringer's Avatar
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    I hate saying this because in general I'm absolutely against it:

    TLDR version: instead of adding to power creep and the need for more HP/abilities/damage of mobs all the time, just fix whatever is over-performing to no longer do so and don't listen to the people crying about how their favorite clearly broken OP build got nerfed. Fix the problem itself instead of reacting to them and causing more problems in the process.


    Full version: if the problem is melee's or specific caster builds are too powerful for the content or specific spells/skills are too strong for what was intended, instead of adding in things to combat that which negatively impacts everyone else in the process that aren't overpowered (or as overpowered), or buffing other things so that no one is behind - just bring what is over performing in line with the rest of the content. So instead of just creating and tweaking higher HP mobs that hit harder with special abilities lets just fix what's broken.

    Will this game ever be balanced, no - there are just too many options and ways to build a toon, which is what makes this game great IMO. And every time a change happens there will be unintended outcomes. But making sweeping changes because people who abuse specific unintended or just over performing things of the game get mad they aren't challenged to me is not the way to go, it's making what is over performing or unintended balanced. Will people complain, my god yes I'm pretty sure that's what forums are for these days, not logical discussions anymore but lets complain and whine and then call each other morons for not having the same opinions. But is it better for the game in the long run to balance anything over-performing - yes. Newer players aren't overabundant anymore and without past lives and twink gear this game is challenging still for them and hard enough for them, please don't lose focus on that as we need to keep them!

    If someone like myself who has been playing for years is upset specific builds they use aren't as OP anymore due to balance changes you make, ignore it. Lets be honest this is an entirely different game than the one we started playing anyways so we've weathered changes to basic game mechanics (like the removal of the D20, increasing the level cap, adding in things like melee power), buffs, nerfs, and we're still here. Don't listen to the criers who whine about "nerfing my build" as long as what is changed makes things perform in-line with other things at the end of the day it will just be that, whining from those who take this game way too seriously but those same people will still play and will move on like they always have.

    I play another game world of tanks, and every single update they do (which is more often than here) they nerf some tanks and buff other tanks. Sometimes in back to back updates they will buff and then nerf the same ones. Granted it is much simpler in a game like that to find the performance metrics instead of an MMO, but they just look at the raw numbers of what is overperforming and what isn't and they don't care what the player base whines about in the forums, they just make the changes if they feel it helps create a better balance because they know it will make the overall player base happy once it happens. I wish DDO would take that no apologies approach when they see something over or under performing. Don't just keep raising the bar but find that average and try to get as close to that as possible.
    Last edited by Ballyspringer; 01-13-2017 at 04:50 PM.
    My reality needs imagination like a bulb needs a socket. My imagination needs reality like a blind man needs a cane. - Tom Waits

  16. #56
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballyspringer View Post

    It really seems that they just want all melee running around in heavy armor with 200+ prr using dire charge and all casters to start heading back to the days when the shiradi spam was the way to go - mostly direct force/sonic/untyped dmg instead of using 90% of the abilities/spells out there like elemental dmg and CC
    .
    Try facing reaper champs on a dire charging melee and come back to report.

    I agree that sweeping changes are not bringing balance. Truth is that they didn't try to balance anything with reaper. It is about scaling up difficulty, and if some builds are broken in the process so be it.

    However, by turning up difficulty so much, what happens is that it becomes apparent that some builds are vastly superior to others. Hint: it is not melee.

    Reaper will be about SP efficient / shuri and other ranged builds, plus some healing capacity and a tank that will be kitting around.

  17. #57
    Community Member Ballyspringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Reaper will be about SP efficient / shuri and other ranged builds, plus some healing capacity and a tank that will be kitting around.
    Yep, that's kinda where I was going with that - in reaper melee is only there to be a high PRR tankish build to kite around mobs while having aggro being able to take a random lag induced hit, while the ranged and casters do the actual dmg. Run in with dire charge hit intimidate and run around like crazy - not actually be melee fighters

    in non-reaper modes with the champ changes it's pushing just regular fun builds like a twf rogue/ranger out in favor of that same set up as reaper ones. The diversity possible of builds is what's fun and this seems yet again (just like LE TS and LE Shroud) to say you need to be in ranged/caster builds only if you want to be really effective for the most part - the high PRR tanks can contribute to a point - but if you want to actually play a dps melee without heavy armor/adamantine good luck.
    My reality needs imagination like a bulb needs a socket. My imagination needs reality like a blind man needs a cane. - Tom Waits

  18. #58
    Community Member Mr_Helmet's Avatar
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    meh, just play warlocks and you'll be fine. it's what SSG want's anyway

  19. #59
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    First I want to say to the devs this change is seriously great. Good work.

    The most important thing is being able to quickly gauge a champion power by just looking at it, and seems they nailed it. I haven't tested it myself yet, but the crown color and text are probably going to fit. Maybe you can even add colors to the text later if necessary, like coloring all "offensive" themes in red, all "defensive" themes in blue, etc.

    And a question (sorry if already explained elsewhere):

    The difference between the tiers is just additional buffs? Or the champions will also be stronger at higher tiers (more hp and more damage)?

  20. #60
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    Someone tell me that the Styxian champions are just typo'd and they meant Stygian.

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