Battlecleric weapon question

[Shadowraven7]

I realise the Battle Cleric isn't a particularly well served class in DDO, and also that generally presets are pretty awful, but I am a flavour player and DDO is too number intensive to spend ages deliberating on how to build a character to maximise it's potential, I just want to jump in and play game my way with a pure class, even if it means losing out on benefits of splashing, call me old fashioned.

Mostly I get on good enough so thats all that matters, but occasionally something strikes me as an odd choice as far as feats/abilites are concerned.

In the case of a Cleric, traditionally I would have gone with a 2 hander, ( maul, or 2h hammer ), but DDO seems to push you towards using specific weapons because of enhancements available etc.

As a Human Cleric and Follower of the Sovereign Host you get +1 to Longswords, and in the Battle Priest tree you have 4 levels of Religious weapons that give +1 each to your favoured deity's weapon ( Longsword), and another +1 plus additional damage with Wrathful weapons.

Now the Longsword isn't that great a weapon generally, plus it's 1 handed, but with those bonuses anything else seems a waste.

Am I reading too much into the benefits of those bonuses, or should I be following another deity to gain those benefits for a more prefered weapon?

Finally, why on earth does the preset give you the Khopesh feat given the above, and not something useful like the cleave(s) for instance?

I am level 16 atm and getting on ok, it's just the weapon issue has been bugging me.

Was thinking about using the free lesser wood to correct the odd choices to make it closer to the flavour of Battle Cleric I would normally play.

[Arktanis]

Should have gone with an FR race and taken Mauls. Best deity feat so far.
Also, never use the presets. NEVER.

[Shadowraven7]

Should have gone with an FR race and taken Mauls. Best deity feat so far.
Also, never use the presets. NEVER.

I don't have much time, plus I like to play many characters and jump between them depending on mood, so the kind of preplaning and choices DDO requires is ill suited to me.

Hours ( or days ) of research and studying builds to understand choices, then manually inputing numbers/making choices at creation means I would have lost interest in playing before even getting started, given that I will also have to keep checking a spreadsheet each time I level just to see what I am supposed to be spending points on/choosing feats.

OR

Quickly clicking a preset and jumping into game, forgetting about numbers and maybe actually having some fun.

To many it may seem an awful choice, but to me as awful as the presets are it's still a better tradeoff than the grief/stress doing it the other way.


Ideally they would update the presets to actually make more sense/be more functional, for people who don't have the time for "optimisation" of characters.

[Arktanis]

I do agree on this, however, you don't need to sit there for hours and pre-plan a character.
You literally apply 30 seconds of common sense at each level up.
i.e.:
*Rolls a Human Fighter*
Stats:
I need strength for power, constitution for HP and I really hate enchantments (WIS based saves).

Comes up with 18/10/14/8/12/8.

Next screen:

I have 8 skill points to spend in stats... I hate being tripped and not being able to make that jump: +4 to balance, +4 jump.

Next Screen:

I want to be able to hit multiple enemies at once and use a greatsword! Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus: Slashing.

Done.
~~~~
Rather than lose interest in a poorly built character by the presets.

[Shadowraven7]

Rather than lose interest in a poorly built character by the presets.

I don't lose interest though, I generally still get on fine, it's just occasionally a few minor things bother me, ie like weapon choices.

I noticed that none of the other deities available if customising ( from available races to me) offer better weapon choice anyhow ( over Longsword).

You mentioned choosing an FR race and getting deity with Maul, how exactly do you do that?

[Enoach]

The FR races are Iconic Races.

The presets are not the best way to build. As the game progresses they fall behind. I recommend getting one of the planners and doing up your characters level by level. It will give you a reference so that when you do level them you not only remember your original plan (easy to forget with lots of alts) and will help it take only a matter of a few moments when you level.

Now, nothing sticks you to using the Preferred Deity weapon. Now that does mean you don't benefit from the War Priest weapons line, and a different weapon may not apply Spell Power bonus. Other features will continue to work such as the smite and healing that can be added to it.

Now the thing is while the Long Sword is not the best base weapon. The Long Sword has a lot of Named versions through out the game. But the best advice I can give when using a weapon that does not have the best base: Look at the secondary effects, such as additional damage or effects like paralyze, smite, banish, and disruption. The trick is not to depend on a single weapon but to golf bag your weapons a little something for each situation such as alignment, metal bypass and/or effects.

I've used Long Swords for a long time, sure I'm not at the top of the DPS, but I've solo'd quests and raids as well as brought support to any party I've been in. My Cleric now wields Heavy Maces, another not so good base weapon but I have lots of fun with it and for me it feels like the cleric back in my day of playing AD&D. Don't give up on what you want to play for pursuit of being the top in DPS (that will always change from time to time). The most fun characters are ones that match your playstyle.

[Shadowraven7]

The FR races are Iconic Races.

The presets are not the best way to build. As the game progresses they fall behind. I recommend getting one of the planners and doing up your characters level by level. It will give you a reference so that when you do level them you not only remember your original plan (easy to forget with lots of alts) and will help it take only a matter of a few moments when you level.

Now, nothing sticks you to using the Preferred Deity weapon. Now that does mean you don't benefit from the War Priest weapons line, and a different weapon may not apply Spell Power bonus. Other features will continue to work such as the smite and healing that can be added to it.

Now the thing is while the Long Sword is not the best base weapon. The Long Sword has a lot of Named versions through out the game. But the best advice I can give when using a weapon that does not have the best base: Look at the secondary effects, such as additional damage or effects like paralyze, smite, banish, and disruption. The trick is not to depend on a single weapon but to golf bag your weapons a little something for each situation such as alignment, metal bypass and/or effects.

I've used Long Swords for a long time, sure I'm not at the top of the DPS, but I've solo'd quests and raids as well as brought support to any party I've been in. My Cleric now wields Heavy Maces, another not so good base weapon but I have lots of fun with it and for me it feels like the cleric back in my day of playing AD&D. Don't give up on what you want to play for pursuit of being the top in DPS (that will always change from time to time). The most fun characters are ones that match your playstyle.

Thanks, I don't feel quite so bad about the Longsword now

In over two decades of playing rpg games, I pretty much always used mace or maul with cleric, as blunt weapons were what you usually were limited to, certainly in anything I ever played before, so set in my ways, using any bladed weapon at all somehow felt wrong for a cleric, but in DDO it seems you can use what you like depending on what feats etc you choose.

I read an article explaining about the whole blunt/bladed thing and why it was a thing, and why it didn't need to be, but it didn't change how I feel about it lol.

[Selvera]

Let's start this by mentioning that in most cases, a pure favored soul makes a better battle-cleric then a pure cleric, since favored souls have more mana, gain free +damage feats with their favored weapon and get some other goodies (like wings) that cleric does not get. The advantages of cleric are that they get turn undead, don't rely on charisma very much and can wear heavy armour.

As a battle cleric, I tend to like using the favored weapon, since it is the one that gets bonuses to hit, damage and spellpower. I feel this is even more important if you're not multiclassing, since you can't dump points into hit/damage enhancements from other classes.

So, if you want to be a pure cleric or favored soul battlepriest, let's go over a few (deity) choices here: Good choice Bad choice If uncolored, I'm unshure if it's good or bad, or it might be somewhere inbetween.

Lord of Blades (Greatsword): Great swords are a good weapon and have some nice named item support. I also hear that the level 6 feat is pretty good. The main problem is that this deity is warforged/bladeforged only, and I’m not too enchanted by warforged/bladeforged clerics.

Silver Flame (Longbow): Battle cleric has little synergy with ranged weapons, and the level 6 feat sucks. Even on my pure level 20 longbow cleric (who I like) I switched away from this deity because it had nothing useful to offer (I was/am radiant savant, not battle cleric however).

Sovereign Host (Longsword): Longswords aren’t the best weapon, but they do have some named item support and they’re also not the worst weapon you could be using. I used this for a sword+board battle cleric before and I was moderately happy with the results. Two weapon fighting may also work well. The level 6 is one of the better actives on the list.

Undying Court (Scimitar): Scimitar is better than longsword, but the level 6 active is pretty bad. This is a good trade off since you’re likely going to be hitting things a lot. This is elf-only however.

Vulkoor (Short Sword): Shortswords are worse than longswords and the level 6 active is worse then… pretty much every other level 6 except maybe silver flame. There is no real redeeming quality of this deity. (Drow only)

Aureon (Quarterstaff): Quarterstaffs are pretty bad if the build does not include rogue and/or monk (and you want to stay pure cleric), and the level 6 active makes you better at casting spells and turning undead, which are not the main focuses of a battle cleric. Possibly a better choice if you want to be a healing, casting and/or turning cleric, but not for one that hits things.

Vol (Dagger): Dagger is a pretty weak weapon in the hands of anyone other than a rogue or a bard. The level 6 active is a very nice defensive boost which double-scales with your cleric (or fvs or paladin) level (power and duration).

Olladra (Sickle): Sickle is a very bad weapon (worst weapon on this list?) and the level 6 active is fairly comparable to sovereign hosts’s active (which is good). The differences are that Olladra’s active cannot be cast on party members and that it gives a small stat boost instead of a removal of all bad effects, which makes it somewhat less flexible/useful.

Amaunator (Heavy mace): Heavy mace is a very bad weapon (almost as bad as sickle, but not quite). The level 6 active is ok in some situations but not so standout as to recommend using a mace.

Helm (B Sword): B-swords are a pretty good weapon, especially for sword + board or single-weapon fighting builds, since they provide glancing blows for both those fighting styles. The active is an interesting boost with truesight and some defense. However, the only races allowed to pick helm are purple dragon knight, shadarkai or deep gnome, all of which are iconics which do not start in cleric, favored soul or paladin (and thus cannot be pure, except for with a +1 heart of wood).

Silvanus (Maul): Mauls are a bad weapon usually, but the level 6 feat for Silvanus passively turns mauls into one of the best weapons in the game. This sort of means they’re missing a usual level 6 active, but that’s fine, because they have such a good weapon. A big problem with this is the same as helm, they’re only allowed for PDK, Shardarkai and deep gnome.

[unbongwah]

You mentioned choosing an FR race and getting deity with Maul, how exactly do you do that?

http://ddowiki.com/page/Deity_feats

Latest update added a bunch of new deities; one of them is Silvanus, whose favored weapon is mauls and whose lvl 6 deity feat is Blessing of Silvanus: "Mauls you wield gain +2 to their Critical Threat Range." This is a pretty big bonus to melee damage, particularly considering how weaksauce all the other deity feats are. The drawback is Silvanus is restricted to three of the Iconic races - PDK, SDK, and Deep Gnome - so it's effectively a P2P-only deity.

[Arktanis]

Amaunator (Heavy mace): Heavy mace is a very bad weapon (almost as bad as sickle, but not quite). The level 6 active is ok in some situations but not so standout as to recommend using a mace.
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For melee, yes, but there are some nice named heavy maces for smiters that are easily gotten, which is what I like. My divine caster went with this and is very happy.