Bard with thrower?

[kmoustakas]

Trying for some weird reason to figure out what feats I'd have to take on a bard throwing things but I have never ever played a 'thrower' at all of whatever weapon. Let's assume swashbuckling and pure bard (toon is on the etr train right now).

I would guess precise shot, improved precise shot and improved critical ranged but I'm obviously missing tons?

Any help appreciated

[katz]

potentially interesting idea... i just plugged feats into the lite-builder... it's pretty feat intense... pretty much all the feats are related to ranged.. casting/melee would be a bit weak as a result... but doable i suppose. and could get evasion as a pure bard, too. left a few feats/APs off. like i said, was just plugging things in to see what fit, not doing a full planned out build

throwing bard
Bard 20
True Neutral Human


Stats (assuming no tomes. this section is easier to deal with if you have tomes)
. . . . . . . .34pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . .8. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 17. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 13. . . 12: CHA
Intelligence. . .8. . . 16: CHA
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . 20: CHA
Charisma. . . . 18. . . 24: CHA
. . . . . . . . . . . . 28: CHA

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Perform . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Balance . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . 8. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2
. . . . .24. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6


Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.1 Human. : Rapid Shot
.3. . . . : Quick Draw
.6. . . . : Precise Shot
.9. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Thrown
15. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
18. . . . : Extend Spell
21 Epic . : Inspire Excellence
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Lasting Inspiration
27 Epic . : Precision
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny:
30 Epic . :
30 Legend :


Enhancements (75 of 80 AP)

Swashbuckler (47 AP)

• Confidence, Swashbuckling, Uncanny Dodge, Panache, Roll with the Punches, Evasive Maneuvers
  
  1. On Your Toes I, Tavern Shanties III
  2. Fast Movement, Sword Dance III
  3. Resonant Arms III, Smooth Flourishes
  4. Battering Barrage II, Wind at my Back III
  5. Thread the Needle, Second Skin III, Exploit Weakness, Coup de Grace: Range

Spellsinger (17 AP)

• Spellsinger
  
  1. Studies: Magical III, Lingering Songs III
  2. Wand and Scroll Mastery III
  3. Enthrallment, Shout III, Spell Song Trance

Warchanter (11 AP)

• Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism
  
  1. Poetic Edda III, Enchant Weapon
  2. Sprint Boost III

load it up with doubleshot. could be shiny. it would squeeze the feats a bit more, but could go halfling instead for racial throwing bonus

[unbongwah]

Breakdown of feats:

• Affects any ranged or thrown weapon: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precision, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Shot on the Run
• Affects only thrown weapons: Brutal Throw, Improved Crit:Thrown, Quick Draw (also reduces delay on weapon swaps & action boosts)
• Affects only shuriken: Shuriken Expertise
• Affects only missile weapons (i.e., bows & xbows): Improved Crit:Ranged, Zen Archery (but only bows become ki weapons)
• Affects only crossbows: Rapid Reload
• Affects only short- & longbows: Bow Strength, Manyshot
• Affects only shuriken (or bows w/Zen Archery): 10 Thousand Stars (req's monk 6 so not relevant to bard - just being thorough)

Note that the Ranged Power from the Weapon Focus & Specialization Ranged / Thrown feats are static bonuses which apply regardless of which weapon type you use.

So for a thrower bard, you want everything on the first two lists except Brutal Throw and SotR (not worth the 3-feat cost, IMO); if making a shuriken bard, you also need shuriken prof + Shuriken Expertise (drow get both feats free). Note that Swift Strikes does NOT apply to thrown weapons, so if you want DEX to dmg, you need to be a halfling with Skillful Thrower or you need a rgr 2 splash for DWS Imp Weapon Finesse (I think this is now WAI w/thrown weapons). Whereas for INT to dmg you need Harper; Insightful Damage doesn't work with thrown weapons.

I wouldn't do pure bard thrower: partly because you need extra feats and partly because higher bard lvls don't add much to your DPS. Bard 5 / rgr 6 is a good baseline, IMO; there's synergies between DWS and Swashbuckler for throwers, particularly if going DEX-based. I had been working on a SWF+thrower build which was supposed to use handaxes + throwing axes: bard 5 (T5 SB) / ftr 6 (SwNT) / rgr 9 (Evasion) running in LD so handaxes become 15-18/x4 19-20/x7. Unfortunately, IPS has been bugged for a long time - doesn't work with throwing axes for some reason - so I shelved that build months ago.

[Jetrule]

I would recommend drow for free shuriken expertise and proficiency stick with shuriken. Other throwing weapons dont seem to work with improved precise shot. I would also do a ranger multiclass and sticking with dex for damage instead of charisma. Rely on songs for cc mostly and multi class with ranger getting free rapid shot and precise shot from 6 ranger and a very important extended range on point blank shot and 3d6 sneak attack dice. Picking up extra elemental and/or force damage in aa, and sniper shot from deepwood stalker. This will also give you a burst option with many shot and a bow. 14 bard would let you buff and heal and fascinate and get swasbuckler goodies. My points would all go to the swashie tree and the aa tree and the dws tree.

The big choice for me would be 12 bard 6 ranger 2 rogue for evasion, or 14 bard 6 ranger for level 5 spells better duration's and spell points. The second big choice would be tier 5 in swash or arcane archer or maybe even deepwood stalker. I would play around with enhancement points deciding what works best. I would definitely want at least tier 4 aa elemental imbue damage.

Heroic Feats,
Point blank shot
Precision
Quickdraw
Improved crit thrown
Improved crit ranged
Improved precise shot
Quicken spell.

Bonus free feats of note,
shuriken proficiency
shuriken expertise.. Percent chance to throw a extra shuriken per throw chance=Dexterity
rapid shot
precise shot
manyshot.

Skills max spellcraft, perform, heal, and hide. others are up to you. The Hide is for scion of the ethreal plane. If you wont be playing at cap dont worry about hide unless you take move silent too and want to be sneaky. Spell craft is for the elemental imbues from arcane archer.

Stats to worry about, Dexterity Constitution Intelligence Charisma.

Epic destiny Shiradi.or Shadowdancer(with scion of the ethreal plane) major twists sense weakness or whirling wrists.

[C-Dog]

throwing bard
...
Skills
Perform
Balance

Does a Throwing Character have such a shorter range that they don't need to worry about (maxing) Spot?


While we're here, what is the relative range for Throw v. Bows/Crossbows (generally speaking, unless someone happens to know specifics)? Significant diff?

[katz]

i didn't fill out all the feats, nor did i fill out all the APs. so i also didn't fill out all the skills... i just clicked perform for max perform, and balance for SWF prereq...

all ranged weapons have the same effective range in DDO, which is "as far as you can see". and that range is governed by how good your computer is... your max draw distance. spot has no bearing.

[Chimmy]

Halfing has some nice racial buffs to throwing too that you might want to consider.

Either way I think it is entirely doable, depending on how much you commit into your main stat and feats.

[Wonedream]

I made a level 12 bard, level 6 ranger, level 2 rogue thrower Dark Elf. It works... exposing strike is a must!

I have ultimately decided to TR that toon, since her name is Sonika... want her to focus on Sonic damage instead.

Also, I discovered the best thrower in the game is a halfling ninja, and it just so happens that I have one. It still have a druidic heart too, so I am going to alter my little Kleea into a Shuricannon build. The increase to to crits from ninja top tier is double crit range. You can't ignore that if you want to optimalize throwing power, and another +1 crit for Ninja capstone along with all shurikens becoming vorpal weaponed. Tossing in 10 thousand stars is a must. All the good thrower feats... even after update weakened it a bit it remains an EE dominator when prepared correctly.

I agree with Teachersyn. You can watch his videos for further proof. After seeing them, yeah, nothing beats Shuricannon halfling thrower. Oh, and those extra heals on a pure monk are quite nice

[C-Dog]

...all ranged weapons have the same effective range in DDO, which is "as far as you can see". and that range is governed by how good your computer is... your max draw distance. spot has no bearing.

I've never run a Thrower, so good to know about the ranges being the same.

But I understood the exact opposite about Spot - that it DID limit the distance that enemies were rendered. Bad computer graphics would do the same, but afaik high-powered graphics do not make up for low Spot skill. This seems true with every non-Spot character I've run, who can't see the enemy archers pewpewing him, while in the same quest my high-spot Rangers seem to be able to without problem. (And Wiki supports this, for what that's worth - http://ddowiki.com/page/Spot )

[C-Dog]

...all ranged weapons have the same effective range in DDO, which is "as far as you can see". and that range is governed by how good your computer is... your max draw distance. spot has no bearing.

... I understood the exact opposite about Spot - that it DID limit the distance that enemies were rendered...

This bothered me enough to actually run a test - turns out Katz is entirely correct about basic range, but not entirely accurate about Spot and the (lack of?) need for it on a ranged character; full comments here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...31#post5915431

Short answer is that Spot is useful on any character who wants to see hidden or concealed targets at a greater range. If you don't care until you're right next to them (most melee types?), Spot isn't necessary, but if you want to see hiding enemies and open fire at range before they shoot at you, Spot becomes all-important.

(Edit - and changed Wiki to read as such)