Thoughts on a Ravenloft Expansion

[Krell]

Content wise, I'm hoping for something more than Shadowfell Conspiracy and closer to Menace of the Underdark. I feel like we have lots of classes and races. I'd mainly like to see more content, items, raids, and in particular, new art. The typical series of 3 quests and a series cap quest seems a bit long per sitting. Maybe have more series of 3 quests.

I do like the idea some others have mentioned where we would get some new series, and some older series would be updated. I think many of the original low level quests make the game look bad to new players. If it was up to me I would either update them or replace them over time.

One item I would really like to see is avatar updates. Better art and animation would put a fresher face on the game. It would also be nice to have some limited control on height and width. I can imagine there are many challenges with making existing items fit, but maybe some smart people there can figure out a method to auto-scale. Maybe that could tie into a better overall armor look, instead of having pieces attached to a skin. Also give us more color. Almost all armor has drab, faded, and dingy colors.

Adding some new weapon types could be nice too. That is one thing we really haven't seen changed since the game started.

Wilderness areas - I don't feel like we get the right bang for the development buck with them currently. Except for some areas that scale mobs with party size, slayer XP isn't great. I don't see many slayer LFMs except for the scaling areas and we know that is a laggy mechanic. Explorers are interesting once but XP isn't great and the map benefit is lost with a TR/IR, so the incentive for the time seems low. Same with rares. Most the time they are pretty backgrounds used to run to a quest, that you hope you can eventually teleport to. Think of some ways to make wilderness areas more desirable. Maybe a method to collect crafting materials in rare chests? The named items in 3BC made that area popular for a while. Explorers give access to teleport points or shortcuts? Favor for slayers?

[Chimmy]

I feel what should be top priority for them is really a matter of what their cash flow situation is, which we really don't know.

True but considering this is hardly a question they would ever seek to publicly answer, I am going to come at it from the position they aren't scraping the bottom of the barrel, with the knowledge that they could potentially be (notice I did argue for new content, just not as the #1 priority).

What I mean is, if they can get by and keep the player base interested while polishing the existing game that would be great. But if financial realities dictate they concentrate on new saleable product to keep the lights on, that's what we'll see.

Well this is where we get into the argument about what actually attracts new players or retains old players or brings back retired players.

Frankly, I feel their likely best plan would to concentrate on expanding the player base if that's feasible for a game at this stage in it's "life". A bigger customer base would give them much more flexibility in whatever they decide to do with the game.

Sure more players is something they definitely want. I would argue that to a new player, more content like adventures is just more cash that needs to be put on for something they might not experience for months or may never need to unlock to play through the game, the amount of pre-existing content is more than enough to keep a new player interested in the game (if the pricing doesn't turn them off), I have seen this personally from experience. In that same frame, the bugs and persistent problems are what tend to annoy newer players, the things we have come to accept as problematic as veterans, and just play around, can stop players from getting into the game at all.

New content is one of the main purposes of continued development and it gives reason to subscribe and news to get excited about etc, I did also say stopping making new content would be silly, and is not something I would advocate ever, a priority shift though, I think would be very healthy for the immediate future.

[Gremmlynn]

True but considering this is hardly a question they would ever seek to publicly answer, I am going to come at it from the position they aren't scraping the bottom of the barrel, with the knowledge that they could potentially be (notice I did argue for new content, just not as the #1 priority).



Well this is where we get into the argument about what actually attracts new players or retains old players or brings back retired players.



Sure more players is something they definitely want. I would argue that to a new player, more content like adventures is just more cash that needs to be put on for something they might not experience for months or may never need to unlock to play through the game, the amount of pre-existing content is more than enough to keep a new player interested in the game (if the pricing doesn't turn them off), I have seen this personally from experience. In that same frame, the bugs and persistent problems are what tend to annoy newer players, the things we have come to accept as problematic as veterans, and just play around, can stop players from getting into the game at all.

New content is one of the main purposes of continued development and it gives reason to subscribe and news to get excited about etc, I did also say stopping making new content would be silly, and is not something I would advocate ever, a priority shift though, I think would be very healthy for the immediate future.

My issue with QOL fixes probably is that they tend to be things that one only notices because the issues are there. So the fixes really don't make the game more attractive as less annoying.

I also just don't see a huge potential to bring in new players to a game they've had the opportunity to try, but haven't, for almost eleven years now. While there will be a trickle, there really isn't much chance of a big enough influx to change the games fortunes without something major and widely talked about happening to cause it. Something on the order of a well advertised and reported relaunch, for instance.

[Chimmy]

My issue with QOL fixes probably is that they tend to be things that one only notices because the issues are there. So the fixes really don't make the game more attractive as less annoying.

I also just don't see a huge potential to bring in new players to a game they've had the opportunity to try, but haven't, for almost eleven years now. While there will be a trickle, there really isn't much chance of a big enough influx to change the games fortunes without something major and widely talked about happening to cause it. Something on the order of a well advertised and reported relaunch, for instance.

Well the level to which they are noticeable is circumstantial, UI updates and general functionality/maintenance work generally make for very noticeable changes initially, even though that novelty wears off and goes unnoticed for a new player, it is still well worth it.

As an older player if I heard they had spent a large portion of time revamping old and buggy quests/chains, it would excite me as much as new content, as I know I can access it and there are several chains I tend to just avoid due to past issues even though I own them. It would be great to know they are viable to run properly again.

And I agree there isn't a HUGE market for flow of new players, but I'd think there would be a flow at least (it is a very good version of dnd online), with that in mind the current playerbase and older players who are living with the problems or have stopped playing due to certain issues could easily get enthused by the idea that old systems or persistent issues were being focused on, breathing new life into the old as it were.

[Hazelnut]

I didn't bother to read any of your suggestions. I just like the title. So, instead I'm going to offer my totally crazy suggestion...

During one of the upcoming updates, a new npc shows up. If a player talk to him, he offers to let them into a part of the city that has been closed off for a while (say Summerfield after the Attack on Stormreach). If you say yes, you can go through a swirly door (like opening a quest, complete with choosing a difficulty).

Once inside you find yourself inside a large abandoned suburb like place with a park in the middle and a spooky mansion on the top of a hill in the park. There are no mobs, no chests, and no quest goals. You can walk into the houses and explore. They all look long abandoned. You can walk into the mansion. Likewise it looks long abandoned.

There is a door in the basement of the mansion that is locked and not pickable by rogues (may the rogues guild forgive me).

An update or two later, another NPC shows up inside the area. Clicking on him you find that he is offering to sell you the deed to one of the houses (for Astral Shards). If you buy it, you get a scroll with an address on it. When you walk into the house at that address, you find that there is now a butler in the house and you can rent amenities and staff (the old ship buffs). Without the deed, you walk into the abandoned type buildings unless you are in a party with someone who has a deed, then you go into their house). Welcome to player housing!

Deeds are not bound in any way (so people can give them as gifts or trade them).
The player housing works pretty much like a small airship but for individuals. (basically re-skinned hold of an airship).

An update or two later, an undead mob occasionally shows up when someone is at home (say a 1% chance on entering). The mobs start at CR 1 and gain a single challenge rating value each time a new one spawns (up to say character-level +10 of the PC with the deed).

On the following halloween undead start coming out of the mansion (and a bunch of spawn points throughout the suburb area) on the hill and attacking anyone in the suburb area (like the event from oh so long ago in the marketplace). A party going into the mansion on the hill will find secreted somewhere a red-named necromancer. If they kill him, they get a key that unlocks that door in the basement. Then the hard part begins.

Welcome to Ravenloft and Player housing all in one place.

[zehnvhex]

- I want a bunch of new raid/dungeon specific crafting that will fill up my bag with junk that I throw out years later when it gets obsoleted by even newer raid/dungeon specific crafting.

- I want a bunch of dungeons that are just single corridors with large packs of 20+ mobs and the occasional boss fight and maybe one phoned in puzzle.

- Please have a really annoying graphic effect that makes it impossible to see what you're doing. Maybe have the entire world occasionally turn yellow?

- I want some ML 29 loot that I'll never actually use because there's no substantial end game content. So it'll just sit in my bags except for the 2 hours it takes me to hit 30 and TR again.

- Make sure there's an explorer area that's needlessly tedious to get through with extremely sparse mob population with 2 missing rares that 3 years later still don't get added to the game

- Be sure to not QA the experience values for the quests at all. It should take 40+ minutes to complete some of them but only grant 23k xp on completion.

- Throw in some basic grammar/spelling mistakes just for kicks and grins. Those are always a treat.

- Don't forget one quest to have a ton of kobolds because we aren't sick of those yet.

- Some new challenge missions for rewards that were bad 2 years before they were released that don't reset their XP values like normal quest ransack making them only worth doing once per TR would be nice

- Give me a ton of new BoA items that I can force into my TR cache. That thing isn't big enough yet.

- Put spell wards everywhere! No, we don't want new or interesting traps, you know, that thing that is unique to DDO and adds greatly to its charm. Naaaw. I want more glowing red and green runes because those are fun!

There we go.

[mikarddo]

1. at least 1 class;
2. finish 3rd enhancement trees
3. add 7-9 quests with at least 1 Raid
4. a revamp of 2 game areas (a low and a mid/high - Catacombs and Threnal?)
5. bring at least 1 new explorer zone
6. bring something to the game such as new spells, skills
7. A new quality of life improvement to get us away from 2006 such as a new character sheet (show me EVERYTHING that stacks and where it is coming from) or a new quest log.

Imho, your 2,4, 7 and possibly 6 have no real place in a paid expansion - as everyone would likely have to be getting those even if not buying the xpac.

7-9 quests and 1 raid sounds low to me. I am definitely hoping for 12-15 quests and 2-3 large raids.
MotU had 15 quests, 3 wilderness areas, 1 raid and 6 challenges not to mention epic destinies - thats what we should be comparing to.

[HastyPudding]

Hmmmmmmmm

1. The expansion must contain Count Strahd. Otherwise it's just not Ravenloft. He doesn't have to be the 'big bad' but he must at least be present.
2. New independent enhancement tree: Hunter of the Dead. I know it was formerly a paladin PrE, but that was taken over and absorbed by KoTC, and it fits in with Ravenloft perfectly.
3. Two new races: Aasimar and Tiefling. Probably not the best fit for Ravenloft, but they do represent a lawful/good vs chaos/evil element.
4. 4-6 new dungeons
5. 1 new wilderness area
6. 1 new raid

[Aelonwy]

*snip* Welcome to Ravenloft and Player housing all in one place.

Creative, interesting, and sounds like fun. Devs, please take note.

[Ganak]

I, Strahd.

[Annex]

1) Include lots of quests!
2) Add more quests to use as Epic dalies!
3) Add some quests that require brain operation!
4) Add a couple sprawling quests with lots of places to discover and explore!
5) Resist the urge to tinker with game mechanics and add some quick quests!
6) Forget about new races and add more quests!
7) Don't stop now! Add more quests!
8) Finish what you started and add more quests!
9) You are almost there! Add more quests!
10) Celebrate all those new quests you created by adding more quests!
11) Add some witchy cosmetic outfits and congratulate yourself for making a wonderful expansion! Woo hoo!

[Full_Bleed]

Hmmm... so people really think that what DDO is missing is... "more undead"?

[changelingamuck]

Hmmm... so people really think that what DDO is missing is... "more undead"?

That's not what Ravenloft is any more than "Fantasy Horror" can be reduced to 'the undead'. Google around.

[Gremmlynn]

Well the level to which they are noticeable is circumstantial, UI updates and general functionality/maintenance work generally make for very noticeable changes initially, even though that novelty wears off and goes unnoticed for a new player, it is still well worth it.

As an older player if I heard they had spent a large portion of time revamping old and buggy quests/chains, it would excite me as much as new content, as I know I can access it and there are several chains I tend to just avoid due to past issues even though I own them. It would be great to know they are viable to run properly again.

And I agree there isn't a HUGE market for flow of new players, but I'd think there would be a flow at least (it is a very good version of dnd online), with that in mind the current playerbase and older players who are living with the problems or have stopped playing due to certain issues could easily get enthused by the idea that old systems or persistent issues were being focused on, breathing new life into the old as it were.

I actually agree that QOL type things should be done. It's just that I'm not going to say it should be their first priority or biggest budget item. Their first priority should be to keep the financial hamster wheel turning to pay for everything they do. Without knowing how much of their budget that takes it's hard for me to suggest they should focus on anything else.

I'm a huge fan of SSG putting what recourse they can into fixing bugs, or updating old content (or even polishing newer things like the still incomplete item pass) and the like. But not at the cost of bankrupting themselves in the process. So that's got to be more of a "as time and resources permit" activity, rather than a primary focus which always has to be those things that keep the bills paid.

The thing is, for all I know the bring in enough from subscriptions to keep the wheels turning and are able to focus primarily on polish and infrastructure. But that's just not something I'm willing to assume, but seems to me you are.
(primarily fixing, updating existing systems and content before new things like the proposed quest nexus and such) they can fit in.


So basically I agree with you on the condition that it is feasible to do that. If not I'm willing to get whatever QOL changes they can fit in.

Personally I'd rather they focus this on polishing older systems and content before adding new things like the proposed quest nexus.

[Full_Bleed]

That's not what Ravenloft is any more than "Fantasy Horror" can be reduced to 'the undead'. Google around.

Undead and other gothic horror themes anchor the setting (gargoyles and wolves and witches, oh My!)

I'm quite familiar with it.

Ravenloft in DDO will be thick with the undead.

[Nandos]

I can see a small village with a big giant castle to explore. At least one explorer area (castle grounds/graveyard) and one raid. Also a new universal enhancement tree "Monster Hunter" or something that maybe has WIS to hit and damage as a feature.

[TDarkchylde]

I didn't bother to read any of your suggestions. I just like the title. So, instead I'm going to offer my totally crazy suggestion...

During one of the upcoming updates, a new npc shows up. If a player talk to him, he offers to let them into a part of the city that has been closed off for a while (say Summerfield after the Attack on Stormreach). If you say yes, you can go through a swirly door (like opening a quest, complete with choosing a difficulty).

Once inside you find yourself inside a large abandoned suburb like place with a park in the middle and a spooky mansion on the top of a hill in the park. There are no mobs, no chests, and no quest goals. You can walk into the houses and explore. They all look long abandoned. You can walk into the mansion. Likewise it looks long abandoned.

There is a door in the basement of the mansion that is locked and not pickable by rogues (may the rogues guild forgive me).

An update or two later, another NPC shows up inside the area. Clicking on him you find that he is offering to sell you the deed to one of the houses (for Astral Shards). If you buy it, you get a scroll with an address on it. When you walk into the house at that address, you find that there is now a butler in the house and you can rent amenities and staff (the old ship buffs). Without the deed, you walk into the abandoned type buildings unless you are in a party with someone who has a deed, then you go into their house). Welcome to player housing!

Deeds are not bound in any way (so people can give them as gifts or trade them).
The player housing works pretty much like a small airship but for individuals. (basically re-skinned hold of an airship).

An update or two later, an undead mob occasionally shows up when someone is at home (say a 1% chance on entering). The mobs start at CR 1 and gain a single challenge rating value each time a new one spawns (up to say character-level +10 of the PC with the deed).

On the following halloween undead start coming out of the mansion (and a bunch of spawn points throughout the suburb area) on the hill and attacking anyone in the suburb area (like the event from oh so long ago in the marketplace). A party going into the mansion on the hill will find secreted somewhere a red-named necromancer. If they kill him, they get a key that unlocks that door in the basement. Then the hard part begins.

Welcome to Ravenloft and Player housing all in one place.

"You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, please try again later."

I love this idea. Even if it costs Shards. (Why do you even exist, Shards?)

Hmmmmmmmm

1. The expansion must contain Count Strahd. Otherwise it's just not Ravenloft. He doesn't have to be the 'big bad' but he must at least be present.

Oh, absolutely. He's gotta be present if it's Ravenloft-related at all.

[GeoffWatson]

I'd like to see the original Ravenloft adventure, with the fortune telling hints and Strahd as recurring enemy.

The Ravenloft setting, as Horror, wouldn't work at all for DDO, and is a pretty bad fit for D&D in general.

So a whole Expansion would be too much. One big adventure like Haunted Halls would work.

[NaturalHazard]

- I want a bunch of new raid/dungeon specific crafting that will fill up my bag with junk that I throw out years later when it gets obsoleted by even newer raid/dungeon specific crafting.

- I want a bunch of dungeons that are just single corridors with large packs of 20+ mobs and the occasional boss fight and maybe one phoned in puzzle.

- Please have a really annoying graphic effect that makes it impossible to see what you're doing. Maybe have the entire world occasionally turn yellow?

- I want some ML 29 loot that I'll never actually use because there's no substantial end game content. So it'll just sit in my bags except for the 2 hours it takes me to hit 30 and TR again.

- Make sure there's an explorer area that's needlessly tedious to get through with extremely sparse mob population with 2 missing rares that 3 years later still don't get added to the game

- Be sure to not QA the experience values for the quests at all. It should take 40+ minutes to complete some of them but only grant 23k xp on completion.

- Throw in some basic grammar/spelling mistakes just for kicks and grins. Those are always a treat.

- Don't forget one quest to have a ton of kobolds because we aren't sick of those yet.

- Some new challenge missions for rewards that were bad 2 years before they were released that don't reset their XP values like normal quest ransack making them only worth doing once per TR would be nice

- Give me a ton of new BoA items that I can force into my TR cache. That thing isn't big enough yet.

- Put spell wards everywhere! No, we don't want new or interesting traps, you know, that thing that is unique to DDO and adds greatly to its charm. Naaaw. I want more glowing red and green runes because those are fun!

There we go.

well im betting you wont be disappointed

[Chimmy]

Well keeping your expectations low can be healthy but if that is his actual wishlist I fear for his sanity.