HIt Box Size Fixed, But Missing When Chasing

[Paisheng]

Since the U33 patch 2 the hitbox size was restored according to release note and I am experiencing a better contact on objects and opponents when standing still and a greater distance, but when running at objects/monsters or chasing them I seem to almost always miss them. Is anyone else still experiencing this difficulty?

[CThruTheEgo]

Since the U33 patch 2 the hitbox size was restored according to release note and I am experiencing a better contact on objects and opponents when standing still and a greater distance, but when running at objects/monsters or chasing them I seem to almost always miss them. Is anyone else still experiencing this difficulty?

By "miss them" do you mean you are getting the miss message scrolling over their head? Or do you mean you are simply not rolling an attack against mobs when chasing them? If it's the latter, then this is standard for twf:

The problem is that you don't even roll an attack while TWF when chasing a moving mob. So it's not that you are missing, it's that the dice don't even roll. Even though you can be literally bumping into the enemy, it's as though there is no mob there. It's like the TWF hit box distance is reduced to zero when you are chasing a moving mob.

It's been this way forever and I've just gotten used to it. I just don't chase. Or I try to maneuver around in front of them, block them, and hit them as they try to pass me. It never made sense to me why it is this way.

When TWF with any kind of weapon (I don't know about handwraps because I don't have a handwrap user, but I can confirm this with daggers, khopeshes, maces, etc.), you can hit mobs that are moving if they are moving toward you or to the side of you, but not if they are moving away from you, even if you are chasing so close to them that you are literally bumping into their backs. This is how it has been for as long as I can remember.

Hitting mobs moving toward you or to the side of you is subject to latency issues, which you sometimes need to take into account to actually land the hit, but it is possible. Hitting mobs running away from you when TWF, however, is simply an impossibility.

[Paisheng]

By "miss them" do you mean you are getting the miss message scrolling over their head? Or do you mean you are simply not rolling an attack against mobs when chasing them? If it's the latter, then this is standard for twf:





Hitting mobs moving toward you or to the side of you is subject to latency issues, which you sometimes need to take into account to actually land the hit, but it is possible. Hitting mobs running away from you when TWF, however, is simply an impossibility.

Thanks for your feedback.

I am not missing them because I'm rolling "low." I am not seeing any "miss" messages scrolling over their head. I'm even missing boxes running to them if I'm almost right on top of them. I have to slow/stop or be literally right on top of them for it to apparently proc a hit/miss.

I don't know anyway to statistically demonstrate this and I don't even know how to record/save while playing ddo (is there a user friendly guide to this btw?) so I could post it. But when chasing a creature and catching up to it, and I feel I'm close enough to hit it/stun it whatever I seem to inevitably miss though the graphics show me swing at it (with handwraps /twf). I have never heard that hitting mobs running away is an impossibility -- is that working as intended? Even if so it does not explain why I'm missing the standing still boxes/creatures.

I know this is subjective at this point, but I guess that is why I'm looking to the community to see if they are experiencing this too.

[Wh070aa]

Just get some free screen recording software ( I use Hypercam by hyperionics, the free version, not the weird pay version by that other company), but fraps, camstudio or bandicam also work), set it up (basically go over options and decide where you put the video file that you are recording, make sure you have free disk for it (Video gets large quick). You might have to choose screen spot you want to film too (preferably have your desktop resolution be same as ddo resolution, that might create problems otherwise). Record short test video, so you know it works, and you know how to start/stop video. Also set up your microphone, if needed. Also remove any stuff you don't want people to see from your desktop/start menu,personal information or 18+ game shortcuts or whateverso you don't have to cut of start/end of video if your desktop is showing.
Look for tutorial on youtube if there are any specific problems, or just for how to tutorial (just look for how to record with (insert software you use here)).

After that start up ddo, get ready to reproduce your bug, minimize it, start recording maximize it, do whatever, then stop it(or minimize and then stop it, if you are having hard time with hot keys and stuff).

After that upload it to youtube (that's pretty straight forward).

[DownClan]

It's almost certainly a latency issue. If a mob is running towards me, I can pre-attack before it actually should be in range, and I will hit because the attack isn't calculated at the moment I press the key, it is calculated when the server actually receives the key press.

And the MOB's location on your screen is actually delayed a little behind where the server has calculated the MOB's location, again due to latency.

So you are always viewing and reacting to "the past" on your screen. You have to anticipate. And if you are chasing a MOB, the client won't actually let you step inside the MOB, and that is a client check, not a server check, so the client is not letting you step into a position where the MOB used to be.

Add it all up: If you are chasing a MOB, you can never catch up because the client prevents you from moving through the MOB's old position, so you can never reach the MOB's current position, so your swings are always out of range.

[Paisheng]

Just get some free screen recording software ( I use Hypercam by hyperionics, the free version, not the weird pay version by that other company), but fraps, camstudio or bandicam also work), set it up (basically go over options and decide where you put the video file that you are recording, make sure you have free disk for it (Video gets large quick). You might have to choose screen spot you want to film too (preferably have your desktop resolution be same as ddo resolution, that might create problems otherwise). Record short test video, so you know it works, and you know how to start/stop video. Also set up your microphone, if needed. Also remove any stuff you don't want people to see from your desktop/start menu,personal information or 18+ game shortcuts or whateverso you don't have to cut of start/end of video if your desktop is showing.
Look for tutorial on youtube if there are any specific problems, or just for how to tutorial (just look for how to record with (insert software you use here)).

After that start up ddo, get ready to reproduce your bug, minimize it, start recording maximize it, do whatever, then stop it(or minimize and then stop it, if you are having hard time with hot keys and stuff).

After that upload it to youtube (that's pretty straight forward).

Hey Thanks. Maybe I can do it.... but did I mention I need user friendly?

[Paisheng]

It's almost certainly a latency issue. If a mob is running towards me, I can pre-attack before it actually should be in range, and I will hit because the attack isn't calculated at the moment I press the key, it is calculated when the server actually receives the key press.

And the MOB's location on your screen is actually delayed a little behind where the server has calculated the MOB's location, again due to latency.

So you are always viewing and reacting to "the past" on your screen. You have to anticipate. And if you are chasing a MOB, the client won't actually let you step inside the MOB, and that is a client check, not a server check, so the client is not letting you step into a position where the MOB used to be.

Add it all up: If you are chasing a MOB, you can never catch up because the client prevents you from moving through the MOB's old position, so you can never reach the MOB's current position, so your swings are always out of range.

This could well be. Anything that can be done about latency on my end?

[CThruTheEgo]

It's almost certainly a latency issue. If a mob is running towards me, I can pre-attack before it actually should be in range, and I will hit because the attack isn't calculated at the moment I press the key, it is calculated when the server actually receives the key press.

And the MOB's location on your screen is actually delayed a little behind where the server has calculated the MOB's location, again due to latency.

So you are always viewing and reacting to "the past" on your screen. You have to anticipate.

This is what I meant when I said you have to take the latency into account. This is also one of the reasons I love playing an assassin so much. It's fun to hit assassinate on a mob that is running toward you but hasn't visually reached you yet, only to see it die after it has already run past you lol.

And if you are chasing a MOB, the client won't actually let you step inside the MOB, and that is a client check, not a server check, so the client is not letting you step into a position where the MOB used to be.

Add it all up: If you are chasing a MOB, you can never catch up because the client prevents you from moving through the MOB's old position, so you can never reach the MOB's current position, so your swings are always out of range.

I've never heard this explanation before, but it makes perfect sense. If this is the case, then something should be done to try to account for this, such as extending the hit box behind a mob, or maybe extending it only when the mob is moving. I don't know how complicated something like that is to program. Probably a much simpler solution is to simply extend the TWF hit box to the THF range since this doesn't seem to be a problem with THF.

[LavidDynch]

It looks something like this... (I see the same patterns using TWF or THF -- the remedy is using cleaves)

[Paisheng]

It looks something like this... (I see the same patterns using TWF or THF -- the remedy is using cleaves)

Thanks for the video -- yup that is what my monk looks like chasing down folks and missing (without misses) even though you are almost on top of them. If they stop or if my character can stop for a split sec and I am still caught up with them, then I may get the "hit" opportunity.

Help us devs! Someone send up the Dev bat signal!

[CThruTheEgo]

I see the same patterns using TWF or THF -- the remedy is using cleaves

I haven't noticed this problem with THF, but then I also haven't played THF builds nearly as much. I'll have to look for this the next time I'm on.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Probably a much simpler solution is to simply extend the TWF hit box to the THF range since this doesn't seem to be a problem with THF.

no. never. terrible idea. honestly. sorry, but thats just irritatingly unpleasantly awful and stupid to even read as something in an obscure thread that probably wont be read by devs or ever considered by them. at that point thf weapons may as well not exist imo.

[CThruTheEgo]

no. never. terrible idea. honestly. sorry, but thats just irritatingly unpleasantly awful and stupid to even read as something in an obscure thread that probably wont be read by devs or ever considered by them. at that point thf weapons may as well not exist imo.

Well, the primary, and much more significant, difference between TWF and THF is the kind of damage they do, that is, single target and AoE, which wouldn't change at all.

If LavidDynch is correct, and hitting mobs moving away from you is also an impossibility with THF, then it is a problem for both styles and the solution you quoted is irrelevant. But if this is not true for THF, then it is "irritatingly unpleasantly awful and stupid" to not be able to also hit mobs moving away from you while TWF.

[Shall]

I'll post this here since it's somewhat related, but has anyone else been having problems when attacking with handwraps while stealthed? I just reincarnated into a shintao and whenever I try sneaking up to a mob to stun a target it doesn't seem to register as hitting it, even when attacking stationary mobs or breakables. Things seems to work fine with a staff equipped or even completely unarmed with no weapon at all, but wraps never seem to work with either autoattacks or monk abilities.

[Irongutz2000]

Well, the primary, and much more significant, difference between TWF and THF is the kind of damage they do, that is, single target and AoE, which wouldn't change at all.

If LavidDynch is correct, and hitting mobs moving away from you is also an impossibility with THF, then it is a problem for both styles and the solution you quoted is irrelevant. But if this is not true for THF, then it is "irritatingly unpleasantly awful and stupid" to not be able to also hit mobs moving away from you while TWF.

I play 2 thfing builds one axe and one maul . Don't have issues at all chasing down mobs and hitting while moving. That said i also play a handwrap monk and its really hard to hit stuff moving . However instead of chasing them ku kundo them or whirlwind them ....problem solved.

[CThruTheEgo]

I play 2 thfing builds one axe and one maul . Don't have issues at all chasing down mobs and hitting while moving.

Good to know. Thanks for the info.

That said i also play a handwrap monk and its really hard to hit stuff moving . However instead of chasing them ku kundo them or whirlwind them ....problem solved.

That's fine for handwrap monk builds, but doesn't solve the problem for so many other twf builds. As mentioned previously, cleaves (including whirlwind attack) do allow you to hit moving mobs. But many (I would even say most) twf builds do not take cleaves because you basically lose all benefit of the offhand weapon when using a cleave attack, which negates the whole point of being a twf build.

[GeoffWatson]

It's still missing when Sneaking as well.