U33.2 aggro mechanic

[Ellihor]

So it seems if a single monster is alerted, the whole room will do the same. So if you are invising and there is one champ with true seeing, it's like if the whole room had true seeing for spot purposes. It never made much sense to me the old mechanic that a monster would be alerted while his buddies not, but I just wanted to know if this is WAI. But if the idea was to make real world sense, get rid of dungeon alert, because it doesn't have any.

This is also causing alert on almost every single room you go in, even if you are clearing everything. Maybe with this new mechanic if you're not going to remove the alert, at least you may want to change the number of enemies that need to be alerted to cause green/yellow/orange/red alert.

[zehnvhex]

I think that's why they reverted the change last time they tried to 'fix it'. You'd agro 90% of the dungeon in some quests.

[Wizza]

Pulling mobs one at the time has always been one of the working strats of this game, and now they called it a bug.

And if what you say is true (which I don't doubt), this game really doesn't need more Dungeon Alert. We need less.

[Ellihor]

Pulling mobs one at the time has always been one of the working strats of this game, and now they called it a bug.

And if what you say is true (which I don't doubt), this game really doesn't need more Dungeon Alert. We need less.

Invis too, has been a part of DDO and one of the unique things about it. I'm all for not being able to invis on Legendary, but they should remove true seeing and see invisibility from champions on heroic and epic content, and put an ignore concealment buff instead. Not being able to invis does not make things harder, only slower and grindier, and the builds who suffer most are the ones without good AoE.

RIP invis. Thank god I don't need many heroic PLs on my mains.

[Isolani]

Yep, just did The Riddle on elite, one champion mob saw me and I went to orange alert immediately...stupid. Ended up doing the whole quest in a red alert pretty much, took 3 times as long as usual. I hope this isn't the future of DDO.

Edit: If invis is going to work this way, then remove dungeon alert at least.

[MacDubh]

It is a bit daft when you can shoot enemies one at a time, kill them, without their mates noticing. Melees can't do that, so it is a bit of a bug that ranged can.

As for 'if one spots you, then so do his pals' that's ok, but it shouldn't be beyond the immediate group.

Unfortunately, newer dungeons have been designed with huge groups hanging around together - and this doesn't work with the change to the aggro mechanic.

[SpartanKiller13]

I think that's why they reverted the change last time they tried to 'fix it'. You'd aggro 90% of the dungeon in some quests.

See, if it didn't chain beyond the initial group, this would be fine.

Pulling mobs one at the time has always been one of the working strats of this game, and now they called it a bug.

And if what you say is true (which I don't doubt), this game really doesn't need more Dungeon Alert. We need less.

Not always, if you read above in the post. Also, "it's always been that way" is a rather poor argument in favor of something. Basically you were cheesing the AI mechanics so you can waltz through a dungeon with literally no effort, and you're sad that you can't anymore. Does that seem right?

Invis too, has been a part of DDO and one of the unique things about it. I'm all for not being able to invis on Legendary, but they should remove true seeing and see invisibility from champions on heroic and epic content, and put an ignore concealment buff instead. Not being able to invis does not make things harder, only slower and grindier, and the builds who suffer most are the ones without good AoE.

RIP invis. Thank god I don't need many heroic PLs on my mains.

In your view invis should be a free pass for xp/favor, limited only by runspeed and levers? Because that's seriously boring if all the BB groups will just invisi run for 2min completion which is what would happen without any checks.

It is a bit daft when you can shoot enemies one at a time, kill them, without their mates noticing. Melees can't do that, so it is a bit of a bug that ranged can.

As for 'if one spots you, then so do his pals' that's ok, but it shouldn't be beyond the immediate group.

Unfortunately, newer dungeons have been designed with huge groups hanging around together - and this doesn't work with the change to the aggro mechanic.

I would say it's just a bug in general, regardless of who is doing it. I'd be against it just as fervently if melees could walk up and kill someone without aggroing the nearby enemies.
If the aggro didn't spread beyond those immediately next to the one with reason to be aggroed (dead/seeing you etc) I think it'd be fine.
New dungeons designed with various group sizes based on difficulty; if you can't run Elite, run Hard. Like every melee ever; if you can't kill a whole group in one go, figure out how to fix that or run on Hard instead.

Considering you can run backwards at full speed while shooting, let alone IPS, I really can't see the problem with the theory here. Bluff is the new pull mechanic.

IMO fix the aggro spread mechanic (no full dungeon aggro) and it'll be perfect.

[changelingamuck]

Haven't played since this patch. But if this change kills invis-zerging, then there's one thing that I like about it.

[Ellihor]

It is a bit daft when you can shoot enemies one at a time, kill them, without their mates noticing. Melees can't do that, so it is a bit of a bug that ranged can.

Sure, but that's not what I'm talking about on this thread.

Unfortunately, newer dungeons have been designed with huge groups hanging around together - and this doesn't work with the change to the aggro mechanic.

That's the problem. Also they're bugged and aggro you through doors and walls.

[JOTMON]

It is a bit daft when you can shoot enemies one at a time, kill them, without their mates noticing. Melees can't do that, so it is a bit of a bug that ranged can.

As for 'if one spots you, then so do his pals' that's ok, but it shouldn't be beyond the immediate group.

Unfortunately, newer dungeons have been designed with huge groups hanging around together - and this doesn't work with the change to the aggro mechanic.

Melee's could do it just as well with any easily found throwing or ranged item.
The DPS didn't matter, its just about clipping the closest mob to draw his attention and bring him to you out of range of the range of the others.

Having the entire room aggro when you plink the outer edge mob is too extreme..
There does need to be a balance of recognition to not noticing...

aggro the guy on the far side of the room and yeah that should raise some eyebrows... as the axe goes whoosh whoosh past 20 mobs to hit the one on the far wall...
but any sneak attack tactic where you take the outer edge of enemies out of notice of the others has been a tried tested and true sneak assault system. Snipers taking out perimeter guards..
To screw with that and eliminate that factor will definitely change the game dynamic..

There should be a limited AOE range on the neighboring mob being alerted and perhaps some sort of a d20 roll vs the neighboring mobs spot reduced by distance from the initial mob..
weigh in the hide/move silently to not take away from sneak factor..
generally the mobs go down quietly.. but theres a chance he will cry out.. was that a death gurgle or was he passing gas...

A blanket aoe aggro everything mechanic will be detrimental to the game theme.

[Ellihor]

Compare this:

U33.2 -> https://youtu.be/SXnN7v9q8o0?t=20s

with this

U33.1 -> https://youtu.be/msNde6po1z8?t=1m6s

Look how the gnoll after the first door used to aggro you, and now he aggro and pulls the whole room to you, even the mobs that are not seeing you because they are behind the wall. Continuing, the hallway with archers: one mob, probably the champion with TS spotted, and this caused all mobs on the hallway to be alerted, although they still couldn't see where I was.

The mobs also seem to pack more, so that's good for AoE builds and bad for single target ones.

That's silly when gnoll seers are seeing you through multiple walls.

This is all fine and make logical sense. But, if logic was the thing, then remove dungeon alert because it doesn't make any sense and there is no such mechanic on pnp.

[Gremmlynn]

Invis too, has been a part of DDO and one of the unique things about it. I'm all for not being able to invis on Legendary, but they should remove true seeing and see invisibility from champions on heroic and epic content, and put an ignore concealment buff instead. Not being able to invis does not make things harder, only slower and grindier, and the builds who suffer most are the ones without good AoE.

RIP invis. Thank god I don't need many heroic PLs on my mains.

Slower and thus grindier is probably the point. Else why even bother with having to level past lives if all they entail is invisa-sprinting through quests?

Also, if actually having to play one's build is considerate to "suffer" why play them at all? But then, that's coming from someone who feels they don't need any heroic past lives on their mains.

[Ellihor]

Slower and thus grindier is probably the point. Else why even bother with having to level past lives if all they entail is invisa-sprinting through quests?

It's a playstyle I love. I think it's hella fun to invis. Now it's ruined. You get it? One less way of doing things.

Also, if actually having to play one's build is considerate to "suffer" why play them at all? But then, that's coming from someone who feels they don't need any heroic past lives on their mains.

Invising stuff is also playing. What you are suggesting is that your way of doing things is the only way of playing the game. Go **** yourself

[Gremmlynn]

It's a playstyle I love. I think it's hella fun to invis. Now it's ruined. You get it? One less way of doing things.

Also a bigger time sink, which is the whole point of developing the TR system in the first place. Keeping players busy playing the same old content over and over, the longer it takes the better it's working from a development standpoint as less new things need to be developed.

Invising stuff is also playing. What you are suggesting is that your way of doing things is the only way of playing the game. Go **** yourself

No, I'm just commenting on a complaint that was made about being thankful one was almost done with heroic TRs, as it would take way to long to do them if one couldn't invisicheese past the mobs rather than actually playing the content. The way I see it the mobs may as well not even be there if that's how the games going to be played.

[Tscheuss]

It's a playstyle I love. I think it's hella fun to invis. Now it's ruined. You get it? One less way of doing things.



Invising stuff is also playing. What you are suggesting is that your way of doing things is the only way of playing the game. Go love yourself

ftfy

[Baktiotha]

Invis too, has been a part of DDO and one of the unique things about it.

The AI checks things in sequence and that sometimes gives skewed results. True seeing reveals invisible and ticks the alert flag but without checking the hide or move silently attributes. The AI should check all of the values and if the character passes the hide/move silently check it ought to go unnoticed -- but it does not and actually has never done so.

Try it in Gianthold. You can easily sneak around the giants using basic hide/move silent but throw an invisibility on the character and mobs with true seeing will notice you. This has been like this forever with DDO and isn't anything new at all.

As to the whole room alerting if one notices you, that makes sense for intelligent monsters who would be smart enough to alert their fellows that something is amiss.

[SirValentine]

This is also causing alert on almost every single room you go in, even if you are clearing everything. Maybe with this new mechanic if you're not going to remove the alert, at least you may want to change the number of enemies that need to be alerted to cause green/yellow/orange/red alert.

Well, the patch seems to have broken my game completely, so I can't log in to check, but that can't be right, can it? I mean, the devs have said:

"...we don't intend for a single spawn area to cause any dungeon alert..."

[Ellihor]

Well, the patch seems to have broken my game completely, so I can't log in to check, but that can't be right, can it? I mean, the devs have said:

"...we don't intend for a single spawn area to cause any dungeon alert..."

They are obviously wrong because even with the old mechanic it already happened.

[Blastyswa]

, get rid of dungeon alert,

/Signed. Preferably get rid of dungeon alert completely; if they keep it, I hope either A. The number of enemies required to activate different tiers of it is increased, so that it punishes extreme zergers and not everyone or B. The slow debuff is changed to something like a healing debuff or a damage buff for enemies, because it's frankly silly to have to bounce away from a single archer in coalescence chamber because the group is rocking that perma-red DA.

[janave]

@Cordovan & Devs

Can we please have some insight if this is here to stay?

A) Yes
B) No
C) We are looking into this
D) There will be middle ground solutions, somedaysoon™
E) Any combination of the above
F) Something else
G) Buwhaha!, deal with it!


Thanks.