U33.2 aggro mechanic

[KoobTheProud]

Yes. Player skills being opposed my mob skills.

Having told everyone that things were great from the get-go, it becomes obvious you don't have a clue how stealth is played in DDO.

If your gameplay is unaffected by current implementation, you are only using a fraction of what stealth can do, or your scores are so low that you routinely fail and can't tell the difference.

We have shown video evidence of where our skills are not used. Telling everyone things are fine just reveals your lack of understanding. It may resonate well with people that also don't know about stealth, but not to anyone that plays stealth.

Again, this is just pure BS as near as I can tell. The video you posted had you getting busted at one of three spawns and then proudly pointing at a "break" in the stealth mechanics that nobody else could reproduce without blundering into the spawn.

My stealther is working just fine. He rarely gets busted and when he does get busted I always have that uh oh feeling in close proximity as it is happening, meaning I recognized what was going to bust me as it was happening. You seem to not have this sense of what will get you busted or not busted in a given situation.

I don't know what your stealth scores are but I'm running around high 50's low 60's depending on whether I popped a clicky or not and the fact that I'm not getting busted in places you are getting busted again suggests this is a skill issue.

[Yamato-San]

Any mob can figure out what is making it go ouch the most and head that way. Vs the healers that might well be correct but vs ranged damage and DPS casters I'd still expect virtually any mob to head for them after the first big hit.

You just confirmed the bug. :-)
AFTER a big hit is not the reality, that would be ok.
The mobs will rush ranged characters and healers BEFORE any action was taken and that's simply stupid, unfair and broken.

[KoobTheProud]

You just confirmed the bug. :-)
AFTER a big hit is not the reality, that would be ok.
The mobs will rush ranged characters and healers BEFORE any action was taken and that's simply stupid, unfair and broken.

Well the question is what is the mob's priority before anybody has done damage?

Do they default to closest player?
Do they default to auto-attacking the players in the back of the group? The ones who need defending and by extension are probably priority targets?

I don't group in DDO. So my experience is with healing hirelings and with Pallies and Barbarians when I am playing a low DPS healing toon. My experience is that when I have a hireling that heals he is the target and when I am the healer I am the target. It's not hard to get mobs off of a healing hireling just by doing an AoE ability that hits most of the mobs. They peel off pretty easily. It's harder to get mobs off of me when I am in Cleric mode and the hireling is in DPS mode but that's because hireling AI generally blows chunks in real-time.

In every other MMO I've played healers were priority targets for the mobs and until the rest of the group acted in ways to get them off the healer that's where they were going to be.

DDO is such a strange MMO. So many players with deep experience in this game who apparently have never played another MMO and don't know how the genre works. I'm guessing that's because D&D hooks people in directly instead of the normal flow back and forth between MMO's that happens everywhere else. That may also be why it is so hard to attract new players.

[Yamato-San]

Well the question is what is the mob's priority before anybody has done damage?
...

Sorry, no that's not the question.
The mobs will rush ranged characters and healers AFTER active melees have done a lot of damage.
The mobs will rush totally passive ranged characters and healers in the background.
The mobs will completely ignore the hacking and slashing and bashing berserkers in front of them trying to kill them to run to the neutral observer who just looked around the corner.
Stupid, unfair and broken aggro mechanic.

[KoobTheProud]

The mobs will rush ranged characters and healers AFTER active melees have done a lot of damage.

If ranged damage and healing exceeds active melee damage that will happen.

The mobs will rush totally passive ranged characters and healers in the background.

As the encounter is opening this may be the default behavior.

The mobs will completely ignore the hacking and slashing and bashing berserkers in front of them trying to kill them to run to the neutral observer who just looked around the corner.

This I have not seen but I'm soloing with a hireling so maybe I wouldn't see it. If I'm active in a DPS role and trying to get mobs on me it's not hard to do that. One good Holy Smite will pull everybody off of the healing hireling no problem. Of course they're mostly blind at that point but when the blindness wears off I'm the one they're on not the hireling.

I just don't believe most of the aggro complaints I see. It's really hard to reconcile, they're always on the healer/ranged but my melee keeps dying right away in Reaper. That just doesn't sound right. It sounds like people complaining for the sake of complaining.

[Yamato-San]

@KoobTheProud
Lol, my last 3 points were including each other, not 3 separate situations.
Please group with ranged or cleric characters in your melee role before you continue to defend the current aggro system.
If you base your discussion on solo reaper mode with a hireling, you sadly and completely unaware of the flaws of the aggro system.

(... and it's absolute normal that a DPS melee character dies like a fly in reaper)

[nokowi]

Again, this is just pure BS as near as I can tell. The video you posted had you getting busted at one of three spawns and then proudly pointing at a "break" in the stealth mechanics that nobody else could reproduce without blundering into the spawn.

My stealther is working just fine. He rarely gets busted and when he does get busted I always have that uh oh feeling in close proximity as it is happening, meaning I recognized what was going to bust me as it was happening. You seem to not have this sense of what will get you busted or not busted in a given situation.

I don't know what your stealth scores are but I'm running around high 50's low 60's depending on whether I popped a clicky or not and the fact that I'm not getting busted in places you are getting busted again suggests this is a skill issue.

No what you are arguing is that 20+ players that routinely provide the best stealth builds, and play the top content suddenly have a skill problem.

You can try to say it's just me, but that is ignoring reality.

My stealth scores are about 100 at level 20 without any clicky (Dex Build), and somewhere between 130 and 150 at cap (no clicky), depending on gear set up. I can obtain best-in-game scores, unlike your 50 hide and 50 move silently.

I won every "last toon standing" contest my level 200 guild ever ran simply because I know how to control agro, on a stealth toon or on a toon without stealth.

To suggest I don't know how to control agro is as ridiculous as to suggest the top stealth players don't know how to use stealth.

To suggest you couldn't sneak past mobs in the past, but can now is ridiculous. (You could sneak by stuff just fine since I started 2010.)

To suggest spider-drow are linked, when drow just stand there as you bluff another drow is ridiculous.

All your statements combined show you lack basic understanding. All you are left with is personal statements, because your statements about how the game works show you don't even have a rudimentary understanding of stealth.

Another player tested what happens when you move after tremorsense detection - the non tremorsense mobs still track you for 5-6 seconds, knowing your exact location, exactly as I stated in that thread. This doesn't work for assassin, because it ignores your hide and move silently scores in a way that prevents you from assassinating a mob that has not defeated your stealth scores. So yes, you are wrong once again that it was because "I just stood there". You felt the need to leave that thread after several misstatements. I expect the same here.

[EllisDee37]

You just confirmed the bug. :-)
AFTER a big hit is not the reality, that would be ok.
The mobs will rush ranged characters and healers BEFORE any action was taken and that's simply stupid, unfair and broken.

In some instance, broken in the player's favor.

Just yesterday I dualboxed Prison of the Planes, and oh what a relaxing jaunt that was. No hires, just the main character I'm leveling and a dualbox to pull the levers. Very quickly I discovered that if I pull the lever with the dualbox then quickly side-step to be in full view of the room, the trash and boss rush the barrier and mean-mug the lever puller in a very intense manner.

Meanwhile, my main character -- the one that's actually in the room with them -- then safely and easily cuts them to ribbons from behind. Neither the marilith nor the beholder ever even turned around to look at me before I killed them, so focused on my lever puller they were.

[Baka_Ni_Naru]

I can see where they were trying to eliminate solo pulling from range, but even after the last patch it is still entirely broken.

Someone slowly solo-killing things is not a problem. Broken aggro that negatively affects everyone's play is a problem.

This is something that should have never made it off of the test server and should stay there until and unless they can get it right.

There are those that have pointed out that just because it has worked that way does not make it right. However, the problem is that it has worked a certain way for so long that so many instances have been built around how it used to work. At this point I think it is so broken that it should first be removed entirely, then fixed on the test server, then tested with every existing instance to make sure it works correctly from start to finish. If they cannot get it to work correctly, then keep it off of the live servers entirely.


Here are a few examples of how I have seen it break down very badly:

I had Misery's Peak go from no aggro to red alert in one of the rooms. I find it hard to believe that would be intended for a Korthos Island quest (unless I had been deliberately zerging it).

I had Inferno of the Damned repeatedly go to red alert. It was a combination of enemies coming from everywhere to get to me and probably a handful that could not make it to me (sometimes I could not completely get rid of the alert).

I also had a Catacombs quest where a reaper aggroed that I could not find. My best guess is that it may have spawned in the ceiling with one of the bats. The problem was that it was one of the reapers that put the increasing fear DoT on everything. It did not take long before the party wiped. A bugged spawn may have been fine if it was not able to get aggro (and start the fear DoT).