U33.2 aggro mechanic

[Stev69]

My two cents this aggro is BS if you gonna do that then DA needs to go back in the bin.

[Ellihor]

For solo players the new aggro mechanic is essentially a non-issue unless they were normally addressing one mob at a time while working their way through the dungeon.

Just wrong. You can't even zone in nowadays:



Are we getting a DEV response for it? Since that patch that "reduced the range of the alert spreading" they've been dead silent, and we all know this is borken and should not be working like this.

[Cantor]

A reaper agroed? not too big of a surprise, it didn't even look like all the kobolds agroed when you fought it, clip was too short to be sure. I don't have a huge issue with this with a story point of view.(why would you expect to be safe going into a new area) It is a game play issue with load times etc, should be able to assemble your party before going against something.

Also, on an aura lock, might not have agroed someone without aura.

[nokowi]

If I have to buy a plus 5 skill tome for an off skill like charsima, raid the shroud lots on my first life rogue when I've never been on a raid yet, come up with epic past lives lives on my first life rogue at 20th just to be able to bluff, then bluff is useless, slow pulling is impossible, and I'm never going to GET to where I have any of that.

That's like saying that it's easy to ice skate all you have to do is win the olympics in figure skating and you'll have no problems. Not surprisingly, that attitude at the ice skating ring will lead many to take up baseball instead.

I actually agree with most of what you've said all through this long thread, but this one's a bit over the top for a game that wants to keep new players.

You may have missed the words "not a problem for power players", and thus misunderstood everything I said.

My point is that bluff changes don't really challenge those that need the challenge --> making them entirely pointless.

Yes, the bluff changes do affect you, while at the same time not making a difference for me.

Somebody didn't think through the design very well. One design that actually works for everyone is "partial failure", where you get some of the mobs based on how much you fail the DC. In such a design, bluff is always useful.

[KoobTheProud]

Just wrong. You can't even zone in nowadays:



Are we getting a DEV response for it? Since that patch that "reduced the range of the alert spreading" they've been dead silent, and we all know this is borken and should not be working like this.

How does your post have anything to do with soloing?

I've been playing the melee again the last couple of days and in Epic Elite there are no aggro problems that I've seen in that time period. Stealthy build, Wyoh and the Cat left at the door. Aggro working as intended and stealth working beautifully.

[Ellihor]

How does your post have anything to do with soloing?

I've been playing the melee again the last couple of days and in Epic Elite there are no aggro problems that I've seen in that time period. Stealthy build, Wyoh and the Cat left at the door. Aggro working as intended and stealth working beautifully.

Clearly aggro is not working as intended as you can see in that post. In the meanwhile, DEVs are spending their scare resources (they like to remember us from time to time how they can't spend DEV workhours with x, y and z) with things like racial past lives...

[KoobTheProud]

Clearly aggro is not working as intended as you can see in that post. In the meanwhile, DEVs are spending their scare resources (they like to remember us from time to time how they can't spend DEV workhours with x, y and z) with things like racial past lives...

I'm not soloing Reaper so I can't speak to that but solo Elite is just fine in terms of aggro. Stealth is just fine in Elite also.

I've come to the conclusion that there has to be a play style thing and a lag thing going on at this point for the people experiencing major difficulty with aggro solo in instances. I have occasional issues with over run but they are few and far between and often when I have identified a cause, like pausing for too long on one side of a door for instance, I can mitigate the aggro in future runs to avoid that particular problem.

I just did King's Forest on a level 20 melee stealther a couple of days ago and I had only one encounter where a swarmhorde spider directly alerted his drow handler. That also was the only case where I came around a corner (tree in this case) and essentially bumped into them with the drow already facing me when the spider alerted. In the other handful of cases I was able to pull multiple spiders away from their drow handlers, face-pulling some and using bluff on others, without alerting the drow in the process.

[Yamato-San]

Since i'm in an new TR cycle, some observations.
"Frame Work" is back to the original behavior, minotaurs behind the gate will raise the alert

It's simply unfair to play a ranged character with the new aggro implementation.
Mobs will rush blindly through engaging melees and auralocks to beat the poor mechanic/ranger/whatever to death, regardless any aggro.
It seems to me, that by simply equipping a repeater all mobs will hate you.
Just peek in a room (not one shot fired!) and have them coming. :-(

[KoobTheProud]

Having mobs identify high danger characters and prioritize them if possible is not a bad thing. Obviously it needs to work within a tankability scenario but players have been "killing the one in the dress first" forever.

[Aelonwy]

Having mobs identify high danger characters and prioritize them if possible is not a bad thing. Obviously it needs to work within a tankability scenario but players have been "killing the one in the dress first" forever.

It makes sense but when was the last time the devs messed with how they rank mobs priorities? I know when I'm duo-ing with my hubby, or playing with my kids it seems the mobs rank us like this:

• Hireling Cleric MUST DIE AT ALL COSTS
• Hireling Caster Must die if no hireling cleric
• PC Cleric MUST DIE AT ALL COSTS if no hirelings
• PC Rogue or Ranged Ranger/Hireling rogue
• PC Caster
• All else

I'm sorry but when I'm on my main (cleric) and haven't even came in the room yet and injured mobs are swarming past my hubby to get out the door to me, well I'm just not happy with the status quo. Likewise when I'm on my rogue helping my son through a tough dungeon by getting traps for his paladin and mobs are ignoring his cleaves to attack me when I'm not attacking anything that can be irritating. I'm starting to think the best way a melee can get aggro is take a couple of levels of rogue and pretend to sneak.

[KoobTheProud]

It makes sense but when was the last time the devs messed with how they rank mobs priorities? I know when I'm duo-ing with my hubby, or playing with my kids it seems the mobs rank us like this:

• Hireling Cleric MUST DIE AT ALL COSTS
• Hireling Caster Must die if no hireling cleric
• PC Cleric MUST DIE AT ALL COSTS if no hirelings
• PC Rogue or Ranged Ranger/Hireling rogue
• PC Caster
• All else

If this is the way it works then it's working well in my opinion. However I play to be challenged for the most part and if the mobs are ignoring the healer well that's not going to be challenging at all. Active tanking should be able to keep aggro off the healer enough to get by a tough fight but the healer *should* be the first target all the mobs go for and then the tank should be the one responsible for redirecting their attentions and the DPS should be responsible for carving them up fast enough that the group survives.

I'm sorry but when I'm on my main (cleric) and haven't even came in the room yet and injured mobs are swarming past my hubby to get out the door to me, well I'm just not happy with the status quo. Likewise when I'm on my rogue helping my son through a tough dungeon by getting traps for his paladin and mobs are ignoring his cleaves to attack me when I'm not attacking anything that can be irritating. I'm starting to think the best way a melee can get aggro is take a couple of levels of rogue and pretend to sneak.

Again, the mobs are just doing what's in their best interests in both cases. Getting them redirected onto the tank has to be an active process. In the case of Rogue and Paladin, well your Rogue is effectively a lower defense add and adds are always a priority. Kill the adds and the boss will follow. Let the adds live and you have a wipe on your hands most of the time.

[Yamato-San]

Again, the mobs are just doing what's in their best interests in both cases. Getting them redirected onto the tank has to be an active process. In the case of Rogue and Paladin, well your Rogue is effectively a lower defense add and adds are always a priority. Kill the adds and the boss will follow. Let the adds live and you have a wipe on your hands most of the time.

You describe an effective strategy for intelligent and experienced mobs, capable of logical reasoning.
For animals, oozes and vermin definitely not so.

[Ellihor]

[*] Hireling Cleric MUST DIE AT ALL COSTS

Yes, I don't understand why hireling are getting so much aggro.

[KoobTheProud]

You describe an effective strategy for intelligent and experienced mobs, capable of logical reasoning.
For animals, oozes and vermin definitely not so.

Any mob can figure out what is making it go ouch the most and head that way. Vs the healers that might well be correct but vs ranged damage and DPS casters I'd still expect virtually any mob to head for them after the first big hit.

[KoobTheProud]

Yes, I don't understand why hireling are getting so much aggro.

They're getting aggro only when you don't do effective things to prevent mobs from swarming them.

On my FvS build I can pull aggro off the Cleric/FvS hireling easily with Holy Smite or Soundburst. Often however I prefer the hireling tanking a few things while I cut down the casters, then the ranged and then the stuff glued to them. It's a benefit that aggro works this way for me. I have the choice of whether to tank most of them or not.

[Aelonwy]

If this is the way it works then it's working well in my opinion. However I play to be challenged for the most part and if the mobs are ignoring the healer well that's not going to be challenging at all. Active tanking should be able to keep aggro off the healer enough to get by a tough fight but the healer *should* be the first target all the mobs go for and then the tank should be the one responsible for redirecting their attentions and the DPS should be responsible for carving them up fast enough that the group survives.

No, I'm sorry, I disagree. That's ridiculous. My hubby goes in the room first on whatever melee he happens to want to play that day. I wait (on my cleric) until he's hurt things already. I wait down the hall, or behind the wall in the previous room, or any number of other waiting - NOT VISIBLE TO THE MOBS - scenario and as soon as they telepathically become aware of my existence in the dungeon they ignore him to come running after me. But you know what, that can be used to our advantage because I can just turn on my healing aura turtle up and let him get ALL the sneak attack damage he can shovel on to his character. Sometimes the backstabbing damage he can get on his multimutts will peel the aggro off but sometimes the mobs get the scent of cleric and they just don't want to drop the bone until their dead. It can be efficient but that doesn't mean it makes sense. Unless you're saying the mobs have learned from the previous times my hubby and I have done the dungeon that, that particular melee comes in with a cleric? You know the way we eventually learn which mobs are where in each dungeon. That was sarcasm btw.

I don't mind being a cleric and having some priority on the aggro list, what I mind is how even mobs that are already engaged with a melee will take off after my cleric once they become aware of her. WITHOUT her attacking them in any way. I'm not sure but I think it may have something to do with the healing aura. I usually have the aura on unless I know I'm going to need the burst in that dungeon.

A mob that has had more than 50% of its life cleaved away by the melee should turn to that melee not keep attacking a shield blocking healer until its dead. The thing is I know it only takes a few attacks before most mobs are dead but the aggro isn't changing or registering change swift enough to make sense to me. Now that I think of it, if guards on equipment actually worked (instead of being broken for over a year now) my cleric could be the most kickass tank ever, she would never loose aggro and the mobs would just commit suicide on her.

Also my FvS didn't get the same level of aggro my cleric does and she was more of a spell blasting caster WITH AURA OF MENACE running all the time as soon as she acquired it. Just doesn't make sense to me.

[Nonesuch2008]

Well, this is how it's supposed to work:

Loading screen tips

Tip #151: Monsters tend to attack whoever has dealt the most damage to them.

The reality is that it is much closer to the 'MUST DIE NOW' scenarios as listed above. I have seen it happen time after time, for example landing consecutive crits on a mob & taking 90% of it's health, but having that same mob ignore me & doggedly chase down a hireling, a summons, or one of the other noted priority targets which may not have even taken ANY action yet. This scenario has been discussed on the forums in this and several other threads beforehand.

[nokowi]

How does your post have anything to do with soloing?

I've been playing the melee again the last couple of days and in Epic Elite there are no aggro problems that I've seen in that time period. Stealthy build, Wyoh and the Cat left at the door. Aggro working as intended and stealth working beautifully.

And yet in the stealth thread the player response is 20:1 that stealth is not working well, with video evidence of what is not working properly. Those of us that understand how stealth words understand when our hide/move silently scores are being ignored.

You made misstatements that were proven wrong in that thread, so how can we expect you to actually understand stealth in this thread?

The proper statement would be with your limited use of stealth, you can't notice the difference. My response to that is that you don't know how to use stealth.

[KoobTheProud]

The proper statement would be with your limited use of stealth, you can't notice the difference. My response to that is that you don't know how to use stealth.

I thought the point of stealth was to move around without being detected and then figure out ways to profit from that?

This is what I'm doing.

Do you have a somehow wonderfully different definition of stealth?

[nokowi]

I thought the point of stealth was to move around without being detected and then figure out ways to profit from that?

This is what I'm doing.

Do you have a somehow wonderfully different definition of stealth?

Yes. Player skills being opposed my mob skills.

Having told everyone that things were great from the get-go, it becomes obvious you don't have a clue how stealth is played in DDO.

If your gameplay is unaffected by current implementation, you are only using a fraction of what stealth can do, or your scores are so low that you routinely fail and can't tell the difference.

We have shown video evidence of where our skills are not used. Telling everyone things are fine just reveals your lack of understanding. It may resonate well with people that also don't know about stealth, but not to anyone that plays stealth.