10 Skull Mask of Deception Completion: Review of Reaper, Dec14th-16th, Captain's Crew

[Sam-u-r-eye]

What the heck is this "reaper XP" people keep talking about?

There was a "120% bonus" or something to base XP.

[cru121]

here's what I found in my screen shots about reaper XP


ooh here's another one, and this one is somewhat buggy:
XP log says Status: Underway
Objectives list says Status: Completed
There might be some work to do here...

[Knight_slayer]

Seems you have a minute or more timer on death
And that really underscored one mob at a time engagement
If that's the case that there is a substantial timer
It needs to be bypass able by divines
Otherwise again, clerics are just placeholders
They need to bring something to reaper that will cement them a place

I like this idea. Could be that high level raise spells like true resurrection can bypass the death timer. +1 your idea.

[Rys]

Reaper XP

Don't do it T.T

[nokowi]

Don't do it T.T

EE actually worked great when the rewards were power based (Epic Gianthold) and it had difficulty to keep some players out- special item - yes please! Market based economy! Yes please!

Once EE switched to XP (and demand for nothing else), the game quickly devolved, and players lost interest.

History repeats itself? Let's hope not.

[Wizza]

EE actually worked great when the rewards were power based (Epic Gianthold) and it had difficulty to keep some players out- special item - yes please! Market based economy! Yes please!

Once EE switched to XP (and demand for nothing else), the game quickly devolved, and players lost interest.

History repeats itself? Let's hope not.

Well some of us have been asking to the Devs to bring back a market basically every update, but it falls on deaf ears. A mmo with no trading is missing an essential piece, imho.

[nokowi]

Well some of us have been asking to the Devs to bring back a market basically every update, but it falls on deaf ears. A mmo with no trading is missing an essential piece, imho.

There can't be anything in reaper because those who won't play it will quit the game if anyone gets anything they don't.

Like I said, DDO quickly devolved when the entitled crowd was allowed to take over. Their reach extends beyond things they will ever play.

The EE versions of GH gear certainly didn't cause problems with power creep - the EH versions even had lower min lvl making them more attractive to some. This didn't stop people from complaining --> and they will stick to their power creep argument despite all rational thought. Power creep happened without any special gear on challenging content.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I think its funny how often the entitled discussion gets paired with "there is no skill in DDO."

[Pyed-Pyper]

....

3. A lot of the power creep will have a positive effect on new players in reaper. ... The power creep has been a good thing for the game.

I am really curious as to how you reached that conclusion.

[nokowi]

I think its funny how often the entitled discussion gets paired with "there is no skill in DDO."

You're the one that paired them here.

I find that funny given your statement.

[Wizza]

There can't be anything in reaper because those who won't play it will quit the game if anyone gets anything they don't.

Like I said, DDO quickly devolved when the entitled crowd was allowed to take over. Their reach extends beyond things they will ever play.

The EE versions of GH gear certainly didn't cause problems with power creep - the EH versions even had lower min lvl making them more attractive to some. This didn't stop people from complaining --> and they will stick to their power creep argument despite all rational thought. Power creep happened without any special gear on challenging content.

That is not our problem, nor it should be Devs's problem. If you are entitled to something that is not for you, then problem is within you and nothing will make you change your mind. I already see it in the forum with feedback from people that have no intention to even run Reaper (or haven't even tried it once), and that feedback should just be ignored, completely.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I am really curious as to how you reached that conclusion.

The relative value of past lives increases as the value of gear increases. The gear is much easier to obtain than the past lives. Therefore the recent Cannith and Slave Lords Heroic gear (paired with heroic temple weapons) make any past grinding of heroic gear obsolete and partially compensate for a potentially large past life advantage of an older player---should a new player farm the stuff.

In order for new players to be on the same footing as vets, the value of past lives need to diminish over time. They have been, and this is good.

Epic passive and active PLs should never have applied in heroics. The martial passives in particular completely throw the balance, as your toon reaches AC values that make it invincible.

I know past lives are a holy cow for some but they really need to get proxy nerfed even more. Maybe the 50 PRR reaper pot would help with that.

[FranOhmsford]

That is not our problem, nor it should be Devs's problem. If you are entitled to something that is not for you, then problem is within you and nothing will make you change your mind. I already see it in the forum with feedback from people that have no intention to even run Reaper (or haven't even tried it once), and that feedback should just be ignored, completely.

I'm getting really fed up of this ludicrous argument!

Do you also think politicians should have to have done something before they can talk about it?
How about Journalists?

I CANNOT GET ON LAMANNIA!
My Laptop for some reason does not like it!
If I could I would have tried Reaper {at least Reaper 1}.

I am seriously worried that the way things are going Reaper 1 will become the default or even worse higher levels of Reaper!
If that happens I will have no choice but to run Reaper or Quit DDO {And I'm not quitting DDO!}.

I have every right as a player of DDO to state my views!

Now yes I haven't played Reaper yet BUT SEV HAS SPECIFICALLY STATED WHAT REAPER SHOULD LOOK LIKE!
And from what I can see from other people who have played it {incl. video} Reaper is in need of buffing up to be what Sev wants it to be!

Reaper 10 should be literally impossible right now with today's best build, best gear. Players {even the best players} should be required to work their way up to it - OTHERWISE the Challenge disappears once players get used to what they need to do to beat it!
NO-ONE should be completing Reaper 10 right now {Sev has also stated that maybe Mask of Deception will have to be set aside and not have Reaper difficulty!}.




Most importantly I do not want to HAVE to play Reaper - I want it to be a CHOICE, maybe once a month or so I'll get together with friends and have a go at it, I just won't be running it every day!
I feel that even Reaper 1 should be difficult enough that the vast majority {75% +} of players puts Reaper aside for that special occasion and it doesn't become the new Default.

NOTE:
Gear will continue to get stronger.
The Devs will continue to buff Classes.
Chances are we're getting a new Race next year.
Don't make Reaper just for today, Make it future proof!


Right now if I want to run one of my alt accounts I have to Dual-box because groups for anything other than E-BB IP are virtually non-existent {I literally have to log on a main account opener to open the quest before anyone will join! And in on case got one person join instantly and 1 minute later after logging the opener off I've got a full group!}.

If I wasn't VIP I'd have to Solo or Rely on getting openers/join whichever groups were up possibly putting myself at a huge disadvantage at Lvl 17/18 because of having had to run Vale at 15 and LoD at 16.

I've also been running non-vip alts through second lives and Hard BB is very tight with second life xp requirements.
Not having all packs on those accounts makes it worse.

This is an MMO and though it's very nice that we're allowed to Solo it should never become a necessity! Just as grouping should never be a necessity {because either way that alienates part of your player base!}.
Unfortunately for new f2players and even many new VIPs it HAS BECOME A NECESSITY! We're hearing more and more newbies stating they solo the game before ever joining a group because grouping is so scary!
We've got people who literally never join any groups because they got used to soloing - They will be fine but what of the people who are trying to join groups who don't want to permanently solo when all the groups have moved up 1,2,3 or more difficulty ratings into Reaper?


DDO is not dead, DDO is not in maintenance mode YET!
Standing Stone are sure to want to build up the Player Base - They should be looking at ways to bring the player base together not further apart!
Reaper should be a specific "Challenge" difficulty setting {or multiple settings} which players test themselves on - It should NEVER be the Default!

[FranOhmsford]

The relative value of past lives increases as the value of gear increases. The gear is much easier to obtain than the past lives. Therefore the recent Cannith and Slave Lords Heroic gear (paired with heroic temple weapons) make any past grinding of heroic gear obsolete and partially compensate for a potentially large past life advantage of an older player---should a new player farm the stuff.

In order for new players to be on the same footing as vets, the value of past lives need to diminish over time. They have been, and this is good.

Epic passive and active PLs should never have applied in heroics. The martial passives in particular completely throw the balance, as your toon reaches AC values that make it invincible.

I know past lives are a holy cow for some but they really need to get proxy nerfed even more. Maybe the 50 PRR reaper pot would help with that.

Reaper will only make Past Lives more of a Requirement not less!
Because gear alone won't be enough, gear+past lives will be needed.

Going from first to second life is HUGE! {Yes mechanically it doesn't seem like it should be but it is!}.

Player Skill is a thing - Some players are better than others, Some players have physical or mental or even social issues that cause them to not be good at the game and need every benefit they can get.
Of course there will be players out there who can take a naked 1st life character and get it to 20 or even 30 {some may even do so without having to pike . Especially if that Character is a Warlock designed specifically and knowingly by the Devs to be easy to build + play and basically foolproof.


There are VAST differences in the power of base classes {never mind multi-classing} - Wizard still needs every past life it can get {new loot has helped here but we do not have the space in our inventories and banks "yet" to have a perfect gear set up at every level!}.

Past Lives aren't in a vacuum - Take each one by itself and it doesn't seem much but it's the cumulative benefits that add up!
At the very least just look at the additional survivability 3x Paladin, 3 Barb, 3x Warlock, 3x PDK and 3x Svirf give when put together {and let's not ignore Epic Past Lives either!}.


And Epic Past Lives DO apply in Heroics - Maybe they shouldn't have done but that ship has sailed, nerfing them now would not be a good idea {especially with Reaper being added}.

[Wizza]

I'm getting really fed up of this ludicrous argument!

Do you also think politicians should have to have done something before they can talk about it?
How about Journalists?

I CANNOT GET ON LAMANNIA!
My Laptop for some reason does not like it!
If I could I would have tried Reaper {at least Reaper 1}.

I am seriously worried that the way things are going Reaper 1 will become the default or even worse higher levels of Reaper!
If that happens I will have no choice but to run Reaper or Quit DDO {And I'm not quitting DDO!}.

I have every right as a player of DDO to state my views!

Now yes I haven't played Reaper yet BUT SEV HAS SPECIFICALLY STATED WHAT REAPER SHOULD LOOK LIKE!
And from what I can see from other people who have played it {incl. video} Reaper is in need of buffing up to be what Sev wants it to be!

Reaper 10 should be literally impossible right now with today's best build, best gear. Players {even the best players} should be required to work their way up to it - OTHERWISE the Challenge disappears once players get used to what they need to do to beat it!
NO-ONE should be completing Reaper 10 right now {Sev has also stated that maybe Mask of Deception will have to be set aside and not have Reaper difficulty!}.




Most importantly I do not want to HAVE to play Reaper - I want it to be a CHOICE, maybe once a month or so I'll get together with friends and have a go at it, I just won't be running it every day!
I feel that even Reaper 1 should be difficult enough that the vast majority {75% +} of players puts Reaper aside for that special occasion and it doesn't become the new Default.

NOTE:
Gear will continue to get stronger.
The Devs will continue to buff Classes.
Chances are we're getting a new Race next year.
Don't make Reaper just for today, Make it future proof!


Right now if I want to run one of my alt accounts I have to Dual-box because groups for anything other than E-BB IP are virtually non-existent {I literally have to log on a main account opener to open the quest before anyone will join! And in on case got one person join instantly and 1 minute later after logging the opener off I've got a full group!}.

If I wasn't VIP I'd have to Solo or Rely on getting openers/join whichever groups were up possibly putting myself at a huge disadvantage at Lvl 17/18 because of having had to run Vale at 15 and LoD at 16.

I've also been running non-vip alts through second lives and Hard BB is very tight with second life xp requirements.
Not having all packs on those accounts makes it worse.

This is an MMO and though it's very nice that we're allowed to Solo it should never become a necessity! Just as grouping should never be a necessity {because either way that alienates part of your player base!}.
Unfortunately for new f2players and even many new VIPs it HAS BECOME A NECESSITY! We're hearing more and more newbies stating they solo the game before ever joining a group because grouping is so scary!
We've got people who literally never join any groups because they got used to soloing - They will be fine but what of the people who are trying to join groups who don't want to permanently solo when all the groups have moved up 1,2,3 or more difficulty ratings into Reaper?


DDO is not dead, DDO is not in maintenance mode YET!
Standing Stone are sure to want to build up the Player Base - They should be looking at ways to bring the player base together not further apart!
Reaper should be a specific "Challenge" difficulty setting {or multiple settings} which players test themselves on - It should NEVER be the Default!

I do not care about journalism and politics in this contest. This is a videogame forum, and they are asking you to try things before leaving any kind of feedback. You know it, but you still keep doing it.

You said it yourself: they completed a quest that is 1) bugged, as Sev stated; 2) is easy even on EE on live. This proves my point even more that you don't know exactly how harder or easier the other quests are (neither do I in fact, because I have barely tested any R10 quest).

The rest of the game will be the same. You do have a choice, just like you already have now. You can choose to run Reaper (or EE, or EH, or whatever you want). Noone is forcing you, which is what you cannot understand. You have to solo because you WANT to run EE BB, when you could lower to hard and group.

[slarden]

I don't see the rewards being the main driver for reaper myself. It will be bragging rights and xp as was introduction of other diffs, bravery bonus, etc.... that drive people to it first.

Bravery bonus has been bad for the game and over-rewarding chests on elite has been bad for the game. This is coming from a person that isn't struggling in difficult content. If people want a challenge they will accept the challenge as it is. If people make choices they don't enjoy because they are driven by loot that is entirely a personal problem and not something Turbine needs to deal with. The devs put alot of effort into this and it's turning out nicely. The only complaints the devs should really be focusing on our complaints that reaper is too easy. I've seen some valid concerns in that regard.

This next part doesn't apply to reaper which is intended for vets, but is related to the overall topic of difficulty/rewards. The devs also need to look at the casual player's experience in more detail - taking twice as long to run normal as a vet runs elite and getting 1/3 to 1/4 the rewards on normal. I think the biggest problem with the reward system isn't vets not getting enough - it's casual players finding it necessary to join elite groups to make progress on crafting systems like slavers. If unique reaper rewards add to player power and people start seeing reaper items on build threads in the forums then this problem becomes greater. It's much better if casual players have no interest in reaper because there is nothing they need rather than feeling compelled to run it because there is a good item there. Keep reaper as the difficulty for people that want a challenge without strings/rewards that add to player power attached to it. Cosmetics, minor things people can flash in party chat to brag like mythic +4 bonus instead of mythic +3 are fine.

[Mr_Helmet]

Don't do it T.T

Agreed, too much of this game now is the pursuit of XP. Do something different.

[FranOhmsford]

I do not care about journalism and politics in this contest. This is a videogame forum, and they are asking you to try things before leaving any kind of feedback. You know it, but you still keep doing it.

No - The Devs have NOT stated that people can't leave feedback if they haven't tried Reaper {It is YOU saying that!}.

You said it yourself: they completed a quest that is 1) bugged, as Sev stated; 2) is easy even on EE on live. This proves my point even more that you don't know exactly how harder or easier the other quests are (neither do I in fact, because I have barely tested any R10 quest).

Sev has stated that that particular bug could end up with Mask of Deception not having Reaper status at all EVER!

Seems a pretty big bug to me!

Yes Mask is a short quest and therefore easier than average. But Reaper isn't about any single quest - It is a difficulty for ALL Quests and therefore it's the easier quests that need to be looked at NOT The really tough ones!
People can't complete HH Reaper 10 np those people will just run Tavern Brawl Reaper 10 instead!

With Reaper it's the easiest quests that need to be targeted for difficulty - the tougher quests will be that much more difficulty anyway!

The rest of the game will be the same. You do have a choice, just like you already have now. You can choose to run Reaper (or EE, or EH, or whatever you want). Noone is forcing you, which is what you cannot understand. You have to solo because you WANT to run EE BB, when you could lower to hard and group.

Now you're taking the mick!

I've tried running Hard.

I had an LFM up Hard until Elite Opener for 3 or 4 Quests before ANYONE joined! {Not just an opener - ANYONE! And guess what, Once that Opener joined I had a full group within the same quest!}.

A couple days later the same thing with Normal until Elite Opener LFM!

And no I'm not going to not put Until Elite Opener on the LFM because that cuts my chances down even further! {And I really don't want to have to repeat quests as many people don't so the more that can be done on Elite the better and I'm not going to turn down the chance to run Elite if it comes up!}.

I also don't want to have to have the same conversation with everyone who joins and then immediately asks if we can do Elite instead!

[Hoglum]

Tank Perspective
(UserChat3): [devchat] Seagryn: 'id like a feat/destiny/enhancement that makes intim work on mindless things'
That was after Haunted Halls. The zombies are mindless. There are many mindless things in the game. A tank can do nothing to help you in that situation. A little grease would be lovely.

This is exactly what they shouldn't do. We've seen way too many D&D traits wiped out by these types of requests (sneak attacks on skeletons/oozes anyone?). Encounters are supposed to have different challenges with a variety of ways to deal with them.

When this gets done, all we have left is tank/healer/dps one size fits all (which I know some folks actually want). Monsters like undead lose the traits that make them what they are you're left with vanilla everything. This is where dumb terminology like "mobs" comes from. This game has made too many steps in that direction & they should, if anything, go back to the books and reinforce some things like undead traits, not wipe them out further.

Why on earth would a "mindless thing" give a crud about someone trying to intimidate it? That makes zero sense.

[Vanhooger]

This is exactly what they shouldn't do. We've seen way too many D&D traits wiped out by these types of requests (sneak attacks on skeletons/oozes anyone?). Encounters are supposed to have different challenges with a variety of ways to deal with them.

When this gets done, all we have left is tank/healer/dps one size fits all (which I know some folks actually want). Monsters like undead lose the traits that make them what they are you're left with vanilla everything. This is where dumb terminology like "mobs" comes from. This game has made too many steps in that direction & they should, if anything, go back to the books and reinforce some things like undead traits, not wipe them out further.

Why on earth would a "mindless thing" give a crud about someone trying to intimidate it? That makes zero sense.

It's like asking to make reaper easier instead of the opposite. No, undead should stay as they are and as you said they should be immune to sneak attack and crit immunities. DDO made everything easier than it should be.