Adventures in Theorycrafting: Champions of Silvanus

[unbongwah]

Looks like there might be a bug with kensai weapon specialization in the planner

If you're referring to Weapon Master: tier-4 Weapon Specialization still requires Greater Weapon Focus feat, which in turn requires ftr lvl 8. So you can't take either with this level split. Highest you could climb is tier-3 Weap Spec and only if you take Weap Foc+Spec feats.

Oh right, and don't forget PDK always start out as ftr; are you really gonna pay for an LR +1 to take monk first?

[SerPounce]

If you're referring to Weapon Master: tier-4 Weapon Specialization still requires Greater Weapon Focus feat, which in turn requires ftr lvl 8. So you can't take either with this level split. Highest you could climb is tier-3 Weap Spec and only if you take Weap Foc+Spec feats.

Oh right, and don't forget PDK always start out as ftr; are you really gonna pay for an LR +1 to take monk first?

Good catches. Thanks. Fortunately I don't need the base damage increases from kensai. Just centered with mauls, +1 crit range/multiplier, and melee power.

I'll rework it with ftr first. Just losing a few skill points.

[unbongwah]

Someone asked, "Can you come up with a Steel Shrine variant using Silvanus which is first-life friendly and doesn't require an LR +1?" And I'm like "hell yeah I can do that, gimme a hard one next time!"

PDK Silvanus Shrine
15/4/1 Paladin/Favored Soul/Fighter
Lawful Good Purple Dragon Knight


Level Order

1. Fighter         6. Paladin        11. Paladin        16. Favored Soul
2. Paladin         7. Paladin        12. Paladin        17. Favored Soul
3. Paladin         8. Paladin        13. Paladin        18. Favored Soul
4. Paladin         9. Paladin        14. Paladin        19. Favored Soul
5. Paladin        10. Paladin        15. Paladin        20. Paladin


Stats
               32pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength        16       +2       4: STR
Dexterity        8       +2       8: STR
Constitution    16       +2      12: STR
Intelligence    10       +2      16: STR
Wisdom           8       +2      20: STR
Charisma        16       +2      24: STR
                                 28: STR

Skills
         Fi Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Fv Fv Fv Fv Pa
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Heal      1  2  2  2     2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Intim     4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1     1     3  23
UMD       2           1     1  1  1     1     1     1     1     1     11
Jump                                                   1  1  1  1      4
Balance                              1     1     1                     3
Tumble    1                                                            1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         12  3  3  3  3  3  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4


Feats

 1        : Two Handed Fighting
 1 PDK    : Stunning Blow
 1 Fighter: Power Attack
 3        : Cleave
 6        : Improved Two Handed Fighting
 9        : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
12        : Greater Two Handed Fighting
15        : Quicken Spell
18        : Empower Healing Spell
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Bulwark of Defense
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic   : Epic Fortitude
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea

17 FavSoul: Grace of Battle

 2 Deity  : Follower of: Silvanus
 7 Deity  : Blessing of Silvanus


Enhancements (80 AP)

Knight of the Chalice (38 AP)
Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II, Improved Courage of Heaven
Extra Remove Disease II, Extra Smite II
Exalted Cleave III, Melee Power Boost III
Improved Restoration III, Divine Sacrifice I, Vigor of Life, Exalted Smite I, Strength
Censure Demons, Passion I, Vigor of Life, Empowered Smite
Censure Outsiders, Vigor of Life, Avenging Cleave III, Sealed Life

War Soul (22 AP)
Smite Foe, Resilience of Battle
Divine Might III, Righteous Weapons
Smite Weakness, Wall of Steel III, Righteous Weapons, Inflame III
Inflame: Energy Absorption III
Ameliorating Strike

Sacred Defender (13 AP)
Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense III
Resilient Defense II
Tenacious Defense III

Kensei (4 AP)
Kensei Focus: Picks and Hammers
Haste Boost III

Purple Dragon Knight (3 AP)
Damage Boost
Improved Recovery

Leveling Guide

Knight of the Chalice: Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II, Improved Courage of Heaven
Extra Remove Disease II, Extra Smite II
Exalted Cleave III, Melee Power Boost III
Improved Restoration III, Divine Sacrifice I, Vigor of Life, Exalted Smite I, Strength
Censure Demons, Passion I, Vigor of Life, Empowered Smite
Censure Outsiders, Vigor of Life, Avenging Cleave III, Sealed Life

Sacred Defender: Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense III
Resilient Defense II
Tenacious Defense III

Kensei: Kensei Focus: Picks and Hammers
Haste Boost III

Purple Dragon Knight: Damage Boost
15. PDK1 Improved Recovery; (Bank 2 AP)
16. War0 Smite Foe; War1 Divine Might I, II, III; War1 Righteous Weapons
17. War2 Smite Weakness; War2 Righteous Weapons
18. War0 Resilience of Battle; War2 Wall of Steel I, II, III
19. War2 Inflame I, II, III; War3 Inflame: Energy Absorption I
20. War3 Inflame: Energy Absorption II, III; War4 Ameliorating Strike


Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought
Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack
Lay Waste, Critical Damage I
Anvil of Thunder
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Pulverizer

Twists of Fate (14 fate points)
Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Hail of Blows (Tier 2 Flowers)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

Listed with a +2 Supreme tome, but all it really needs is +2 INT for extra skill pts. And if you don't have even that, you can drop the extra pts from Balance or Heal; extra Positive Spellpower is nice but isn't build-breaking if you lose it. [EDIT: technically you don't need UMD either but it's much harder to boost UMD than Spellpower. And hitting UMD 39 for Greater Heroism scrolls is a nice perk for a divine, IMO.]

Since it's a first-life build, I tried to keep the Twists within reason (for a change), but there's nothing particularly necessary for this build.

And if you don't have Favored Soul, cleric works just as well. Really the only upside to FvS instead of cleric in this case is some extra SPs and the free Child of Silvanus feat, since it's not setup to take advantage of Grace of Battle (not enough FvS levels).

FYI, the Cleave feat is just there to unlock Momentum Swing in LD; you'll still use Exalted Cleave in actual combat.

[Selvera]

I'm like "hell yeah I can do that, gimme a hard one next time!"

Can you make a dex based Silvanus build that's Epic-reaper capable (solo), doesn't use PDK and doesn't require a LR+1? 36 point build; a smattering of pastlives and on average +4 tomes.

This is the main reason I haven't done a Silvanus build yet.

[unbongwah]

Can you make a dex based Silvanus build that's Epic-reaper capable (solo), doesn't use PDK and doesn't require a LR+1?

No. Next?

[The_Golden]

Well, I haven't had a chance to test it, but the following should stack: Improved Crit Blunt, Pulverizer, Blessing of Silvanus, and one of either Crit Rage, Keen Edge, or Holy Sword. You can also get either Strike w/No Thought or Holy Sword's +1 crit multiplier to apply, but not both.

So I believe you're right and a barb 6 / ftr 6 / cleric or FvS 6 build should have: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 17-20/x3 Blessing of Silvanus -> 15-20/x3 Crit Rage -> 14-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 14-20/x4 Strike w/No Thought (+2 crit range for drow maul).

There are others doing max-DPS Silvanus builds including centered monk 6 / ftr 8 / <divine class> 6 builds; I wanted to focus on battlepriest variants which had better buffs and/or heals than those builds do. The thread title is a riff on the Divine Champion PrC, which I always saw as warrior-priests.

Oh Man!! Strike with No Thought doesn't stack with Holy Sword? Are you sure? Strike with no thought doesn't say that it's a competence bonus on the Wiki..

There Goes my 14 Cleric/6 Fighter Aasimar Champion of Silvanus build. Currently at 14 Cleric/ 4 Fighter. Any suggestions on how to recover something with my last two levels? A level in Barb for run and Power attack? Two more cleric levels? Heeeelp!!!

[unbongwah]

Strike with no thought doesn't say that it's a competence bonus on the Wiki..

How recently did you check that?

"Strike With No Thought: Passive: Your weapons gain +1 competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier."

There Goes my 14 Cleric/6 Fighter Aasimar Champion of Silvanus build. Currently at 14 Cleric/ 4 Fighter. Any suggestions on how to recover something with my last two levels? A level in Barb for run and Power attack? Two more cleric levels? Heeeelp!!!

Well, if you were planning on tier-5 Kensei, you could stick with cleric 14 / ftr 6 and switch to a different domain like Strength or Destruction. Or you could do something like cleric 15 / ftr 4 / barb 1: similar to my 13/6/1 build in my OP but w/out needing SwNT anymore.

[The_Golden]

How recently did you check that?

"Strike With No Thought: Passive: Your weapons gain +1 competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier."

Oh yeah look at that - must remember to learn to read

Well, if you were planning on tier-5 Kensei, you could stick with cleric 14 / ftr 6 and switch to a different domain like Strength or Destruction. Or you could do something like cleric 15 / ftr 4 / barb 1: similar to my 13/6/1 build in my OP but w/out needing SwNT anymore.

OK thanks, I'll try one of these. Cheers Unbogwah.

[Pilgrim1]

Can you make a dex based Silvanus build that's Epic-reaper capable (solo), doesn't use PDK and doesn't require a LR+1? 36 point build; a smattering of pastlives and on average +4 tomes.

This is the main reason I haven't done a Silvanus build yet.

6 pally for silvanus, 6 monk for ninja spy dex to hit and dmg, melee power and shadow fade, 8 fighter for feets and centered mauls with kensi t5. Run cleaves in LD. With good gear and displacement clickes should be able to solo reaper 1. Mmmm sounds fun actualy. Crazy saves 15-18x4, 19-20x7.

Cheers!

Edit: nm, i see you dont want pdk, and ninja doesnt work with blunt.

[unbongwah]

Edit: nm, i see you dont want pdk, and ninja doesnt work with blunt.

FYI, Ninja cores work with any ki weapon, not just slashing & piercing melee weapons anymore. If they didn't, they wouldn't work with handwraps or staves either, and they definitely do.

However, Sting of the Ninja still only works with slashing / piercing melee weapons plus shuriken. Though I guess Poisoned Soul would work with blunt weapons? Never bothered testing that, but I don't see a prohibition against them.

So DEX-based monk / ftr Silvanus build is definitely doable. It's just not doable on a non-PDK FR race by someone unwilling to LR +1 out of their initial class.

[Anoregon]

Here's what I'm thinking about trying next life.

11 cleric/6 fighter/ 3 monk
Strength domain

Hey, just wondering if you have run this yet and how you liked it? I recently found a pretty nice starter maul (lvl 14 vorpal with the 8d6 bludg dmg on crit effect) so I have been curious about Sylvanas builds. Having a hard time picking one, but this one piqued my interest a bit.

[The_Golden]

Just hit level 25 with my Cleric 15 Fighter 4 Barb 1 and I gotta say its an absolute blast. Picked up a Drow Weaponmaster Maul and the ludicrous amounts of 1k and 2k crits is just glorious. Looking at my next build and wanted to stick with the Slyvanus to use my new maul.

I'm wondering - is it viable to do a Sylvanus Bard using Warchanter T5's freezing? I'd like to be able to be effective in Epic R1 - 3's.

[unbongwah]

I'm wondering - is it viable to do a Sylvanus Bard using Warchanter T5's freezing? I'd like to be able to be effective in Epic R1 - 3's.

No idea: if you find a build which works, you let me know.

[SpartanKiller13]

So my latest idea has been to take advantage of Animal Domain's 15% Fortification bypass (along with Wild Charge) which is super useful on a crit-focused build. Since I still want +1/+1 crits, Kensei is the obvious choice.

I ended up with two spare feats, and hate to waste them on Toughness/Epic Toughness (but it seems better than like +2 MP?). For reference I have +6 tomes and like 8 PL's. 15 starting Con (to get 21 in epics) shouldn't be too hard, given that I won't need to invest in Wis (8 base +6 tome +2 ship, can use Owl's Wisdom or Well Rounded gear to cast 7th level spells).



Thoughts? Especially on replacements for those feats. I'm rather liking the 140 hp (+10 per epic level) from Animal adding to the +20% from Defender stance and the ability to use a Turn for +7 Con as an AoE. Almost makes me feel like Toughness+EToughness (+82 hp) wouldn't be terrible.

Alternatively I've been considering Extend (and maybe Quicken?) but like I only have two or three buffs that aren't 1 min/CL which is plenty long for most things. Divine Power (for +4 BAB, bumping AS at certain levels), Divine Favor (+3 luck to hit/damage) and maybe Prayer (+1 luck to hit/damage/skill check AoE buff).

Also not sure about AP, I have 22 in Warpriest right now and it's a pretty terrible tree. Just not sure where else to put them. Thanks in advance!

[unbongwah]

I ended up with two spare feats, and hate to waste them on Toughness/Epic Toughness (but it seems better than like +2 MP?).

Shouldn't you take Quicken somewhere? Stunning Blow or Empower Heal would be nice, too.

[SpartanKiller13]

Shouldn't you take Quicken somewhere? Stunning Blow or Empower Heal would be nice, too.

I've always jumpcasted and had very few issues, so like I've never prioritized it unless I have a lot of SLA's (the cost seems too high for the benefits). Do you find Quicken that important?

I don't have a huge stack of PL's or a lot of gear, so I've always understood that it would be hard to hit useful DC's for Stunning Blow. Is that not the case?

Empower Heal could be useful, but like the Heal etc is usually plenty big for me, so I haven't found a lot of usage for it these days. Bumping Heal from 40 to 50 spell points is a 25% cost increase, and especially with the 50% spellpower efficiency it seems hard-pressed to be cost-effective. Have you found otherwise, or is it just for bigger burst healing or?

[snoopy]

10 bard / 7 cleric / 3 ftr. PDK. WC freezing build /cleric domain str or destruction./ stalwart or Kensi. Maul build. Thoughts on viability or is it more flavor. Thoughts. Pro/cons

[unbongwah]

10 bard / 7 cleric / 3 ftr. PDK. WC freezing build /cleric domain str or destruction./ stalwart or Kensi. Maul build. Thoughts on viability or is it more flavor. Thoughts. Pro/cons

Warchanter DCs are based on CHA; so FvS w/Divine Presence would result in higher DCs than cleric which only gets Divine Might.

Drawback to this split is you don't get extra crit bonuses besides Blessing of Silvanus (+2 crit range) and Howl of the North (+1x crit on 19-20). Ideally you would also add at least Strike w/No Thought for +1 crit multiplier; except bard 8 / FvS 6 / ftr 6 has only 4-second freeze durations.

I can't come up with a Silvanus Warchanter build which I'm really happy with. If I focus on melee DPS like that 6/6/8 split, I'm gimping WC abilities; but if I focus on WC abilities, I'm losing one or more of the stacking crit bonuses which makes Silvanus attractive in the first place.

[snoopy]

Thanks for your thoughts and time. Was wishful thinking

[snoopy]

Do you have a forest master build you tinkered around with.? PDK. Mauls with at least 6 cleric