Warlock NERF Again

[slarden]

I think you are making a different point than Asylumist.

Asylumist seems to be saying "ONLY Warlock can craft a set of gear they can use every life and that's what makes Warlock so easy to get past lives with" (but I've asked for clarification).

I'm saying that there are many builds that can burn through Racial lives/Heroic class lives in 1-3 days. and they call can be made with the single sets of crafted gear as they go through each life.


It sounds like you are saying: "Now that warlock is nerfed, people are going to have to pick a new class to do their hamster wheel and will need to craft new gear"... and then you extend it to include levels 21-30 to help your argument regarding rare ingredients. This is a different debate point than what I was discussing.

And Warlock is still going to be one of the better classes for doing racial past lives after the nerfs. The only thing affecting the REALLY good warlocks is the loss of 3d6 damage at the top levels. The big nerf is with the EASIEST BUTTON aura/burst/blast builds.

The EASY button "Cone/Necrolock" is still going to be as formidable as it is now (it is only losing the 3d6 at higher levels). It's not as easy as the Auralock... but it's still a big easy button.

Not going to discuss levels 20-30 because I wouldn't use a warlock for getting epic past lives... there are better builds for that.

I think he was talking about having to re-gear for a different build as I've seen that point come up other times following nerfs. It could be meant something else by the comment. And I don't think people will have to switch from warlock, but they feel it's necessary due to the power loss. My opinion is that warlock will still be the easiest casting class for reapers because of the free dps, but wizard in my opinion will be stronger in the hands of some players.

I include level 21-30 because for the people wanting rxp in addition to racial lifes it's a no-brainer to run epic content for rxp even if you already maxed out your epic past lifes.

There are many variations of warlock builds and all are easy to play. To the extent charming, necromancy, enchantment and illusion is added the builds benefit from past lifes/gear much more than a simple blasting/Tentacles build and that is true whether they use cone/wave or burst/blast. ES is the most popular because of the defenses and self healing, but SE/TS has always been popular as more of a glass cannon blasting build maxing crit chance and damage.

Casting other DC spells besides eld blast related shapes and slas isn't really all that hard to play, it just benefits alot more from investment compared to a straight up blasting build.

[Asylumist]

The only thing warlock does is make it easy for the "lower-skilled-at-the-game" people to burn through the lives as well.

^ That is my point. Unlike the other builds warlocks are nowhere near as gear dependent as the other builds you listed simple because of the nature of how warlock is played. The powers of a warlock provide(d) sustain/damage output to multiple enemies simultaneously making the speed by which people could solo the heroic content for RPL's. The classes inherent abilities put it on par if not above the builds you mentioned without a fraction of the amount of worl and gear grinding necessary to meet the needs of zerfing heroics. As a single class it is the most effective.

The devs have little control over splashes and the different means by which a player can get power, but gear was one of them. Warlocks, becausr of how they work can ignore twink gear throughout heroics very often.

[Asylumist]

And how is that different if you roll Monk thru every racial life. or rogue mechanic, or repeater build, or...

Speed and gear. Repeaters, Monks, and Mechanics all require gear that can utilize their ranged type of dps (assumning you are referring to a thrower monk) Moreover, the classes have weaknesses warlocks don't. Mechs are probably the weakest on that list for zerging content alone since much of their dps is tied to sneak attacks. Repeaters still can't self heal after an unlucky hit and keep going like the common warlock can, nor can they hit multiple targets for the same amount of dps with specific feats that take time to get through the life. I can't speak too much about monk since I have never looked into them, but ive seen enough monk throwers ro know that they can't kill a room of enemies as fast as a warlock can with their inherent skills.

[Jasparion]

And how is that different if you roll Monk thru every racial life. or rogue mechanic, or repeater build, or...

While these have great survivability, their speed to complete dungeons is simply nowhere near as good because they cant AOE the way Warlocks can.

[Phoenicis]

Yeah but RTR is the newest hamsterwheel and most importantly you don't have to change any of your gesr at all throughout the life if you are a lock. Once you get a good set of gear for the progression its essentially just roll and re roll through each race.

And how is that different if you roll Monk thru every racial life. or rogue mechanic, or repeater build, or...

Speed and gear. Repeaters, Monks, and Mechanics all require gear that can utilize their ranged type of dps (assumning you are referring to a thrower monk) Moreover, the classes have weaknesses warlocks don't. Mechs are probably the weakest on that list for zerging content alone since much of their dps is tied to sneak attacks. Repeaters still can't self heal after an unlucky hit and keep going like the common warlock can, nor can they hit multiple targets for the same amount of dps with specific feats that take time to get through the life. I can't speak too much about monk since I have never looked into them, but ive seen enough monk throwers ro know that they can't kill a room of enemies as fast as a warlock can with their inherent skills.

None of what you mentioned in your second post addressed the point I was talking about.

[AzureDragonas]

None of what you mentioned in your second post addressed the point I was talking about.

If you still fail logic check let me split it to you the "most" basic argument you seem to fail to remember. None of those builds technicly does aoe damage till they get imp. precise shoot, which pure rangers gets at lvl 11 while most others get 15+. And now let's take into account that by picking chain, warlock from lvl 1 have aoe cleave and from lvl 2 chain meaning hes already doing AOE and have temp hp to ignore need of healing that much, if it's still not enough to shatter your argument where you compare orange to watermelon and claim both are equally big, how about that none of ranged can focus only on HP and still do no fail damage?

[Arctigis]

If you still fail logic check let me split it to you the "most" basic argument you seem to fail to remember. None of those builds technicly does aoe damage till they get imp. precise shoot, which pure rangers gets at lvl 11 while most others get 15+. And now let's take into account that by picking chain, warlock from lvl 1 have aoe cleave and from lvl 2 chain meaning hes already doing AOE and have temp hp to ignore need of healing that much, if it's still not enough to shatter your argument where you compare orange to watermelon and claim both are equally big, how about that none of ranged can focus only on HP and still do no fail damage?

Not sure what your point is? the poster was pointing out that the gear argument is a false
one as every class can RTR with the same gearset.

I guess your other point is that no build other than Warlock can do AOE?

[CaptainPurge]

Warlocks kill the fun for everybody else in the group.

Maybe after more 5 nerfs they can solve it.

[AzureDragonas]

Not sure what your point is? the poster was pointing out that the gear argument is a false
one as every class can RTR with the same gearset.

I guess your other point is that no build other than Warlock can do AOE?

Indeed it is unless you can prove otherwise a build which can from lvl 1 do aoe damage without carrying about chance to miss|monsters making saves|running our of sp while also reducing need to heal himself

[AzureDragonas]

Not sure what your point is? the poster was pointing out that the gear argument is a false
one as every class can RTR with the same gearset.

I guess your other point is that no build other than Warlock can do AOE?

And for first part, i claim is that gearset to run warlock is so dump comapared to others that you could run with trash loot you get on way and still succeed while others would have first to get good gearset to begin with. Thats why argument for gear is true.

[Arctigis]

Indeed it is unless you can prove otherwise a build which can from lvl 1 do aoe damage without carrying about chance to miss|monsters making saves|running our of sp while also reducing need to heal himself

Can you give me the specific L1 Warlock build you're talking about?. I can't debate this with
you without knowing that. Thanks in advance.

[Arctigis]

And for first part, i claim is that gearset to run warlock is so dump comapared to others that you could run with trash loot you get on way and still succeed while others would have first to get good gearset to begin with. Thats why argument for gear is true.

Yes, I think there is some truth in that. Though if you want to do more challenging content
then gear becomes just as important for Warlock as for any other class.

I know we are never going to agree. My opinion is that it's good to have a class which is
easy to play, gear and which is not as PL dependant as virtually any other pure class (although
there are pretty good first life builds available such as Strimtom's AA Ranger build). Otherwise
we end up with the situation where you need to have already spent literally years playing the
game to participate fully. I think the performance baseline is very high for virtually any Warlock
build - especially in the current meta. Again, a good thing. There are many builds with the
requisite PL, gear and player skill which are as effective as Warlocks in heroic and then outstrip
them in Epic levels.

[AzureDragonas]

Yes, I think there is some truth in that. Though if you want to do more challenging content
then gear becomes just as important for Warlock as for any other class.

I know we are never going to agree. My opinion is that it's good to have a class which is
easy to play, gear and which is not as PL dependant as virtually any other pure class (although
there are pretty good first life builds available such as Strimtom's AA Ranger build). Otherwise
we end up with the situation where you need to have already spent literally years playing the
game to participate fully. I think the performance baseline is very high for virtually any Warlock
build - especially in the current meta. Again, a good thing. There are many builds with the
requisite PL, gear and player skill which are as effective as Warlocks in heroic and then outstrip
them in Epic levels.

Here i don't agree with you. What you describe is a class "easy to play out of bat capable of fully participate", meaning you say its ok to have class which can solo harder content, while other classes will struggle more even in more experienced player hands. Any class is easy to play if you play in setting you belong. Even if we took in account harder content like reaper, even first time healer who can stay behind and heal will be valued way more than hire. In time i saw many examples where new players and adventurers playing less than month did well or even better than those playing years and having legend status. Warlocks are game issue where experience in nullified by easy button choice anyone can make and leaving option like this don't do any good to anyone, neither those warlock players will actually learn to play and always rage on nerfs who affects their "easy button" neither ppl will like to group with them meaning that more warlock players end up soloing stuff.

[AzureDragonas]

Can you give me the specific L1 Warlock build you're talking about?. I can't debate this with
you without knowing that. Thanks in advance.

pick 1 warlock level pick ES aura, and from tained temp hp. Now pick single spell you can as False life and enjoy your
11(false life) + 13(aid potion) + 13(Feigned Health [let's assume you got 16 cha base + 4 pot and using 66% cha score]) = 37 temp hp as shield from lvl 1

So its a class which from level 1 can refresh 37+ hp offen, and have aoe which don't have restrictions to miss chance|saves|spell points

and to make it more clear on higher levels it gets worse. It's just exampe if you can provide who gets even better bonuses from lvl 1 without drawback feel free to share.

[Arctigis]

pick 1 warlock level pick ES aura, and from tained temp hp. Now pick single spell you can as False life and enjoy your
11(false life) + 13(aid potion) + 13(Feigned Health [let's assume you got 16 cha base + 4 pot and using 66% cha score]) = 37 temp hp as shield from lvl 1

So its a class which from level 1 can refresh 37+ hp offen, and have aoe which don't have restrictions to miss chance|saves|spell points

and to make it more clear on higher levels it gets worse. It's just exampe if you can provide who gets even better bonuses from lvl 1 without drawback feel free to share.

That's good defence, not so good offence. The drawback is you get one aura tick every 5s and would have to swing a weapon
- that's a reasonable trade off IMO.

L1 is over pretty quickly. You're also talking about an L1 build which has all of it's AP
invested - not a useful comparison IMO.

[CaptainPurge]

pick 1 warlock level pick ES aura, and from tained temp hp. Now pick single spell you can as False life and enjoy your
11(false life) + 13(aid potion) + 13(Feigned Health [let's assume you got 16 cha base + 4 pot and using 66% cha score]) = 37 temp hp as shield from lvl 1

So its a class which from level 1 can refresh 37+ hp offen, and have aoe which don't have restrictions to miss chance|saves|spell points

and to make it more clear on higher levels it gets worse. It's just exampe if you can provide who gets even better bonuses from lvl 1 without drawback feel free to share.

You and your sock furyexploiter really need to get back on your meds bro. Anyone who's ever played a warlock is laughing at this build concept. Why u hate bro? Why hate?

[CaptainPurge]

That's good defence, not so good offence. The drawback is you get one aura tick every 5s and would have to swing a weapon
- that's a reasonable trade off IMO.

L1 is over pretty quickly. You're also talking about an L1 build which has all of it's AP
invested - not a useful comparison IMO.

It is obvious troll garbage. Troll trying to bring up trash builds that sane people don't play.

[AzureDragonas]

That's good defence, not so good offence. The drawback is you get one aura tick every 5s and would have to swing a weapon
- that's a reasonable trade off IMO.

L1 is over pretty quickly. You're also talking about an L1 build which has all of it's AP
invested - not a useful comparison IMO.

I do agree on that level 1 ends quick, but now compare to other casters. They are in same boat without having temp hp, and wasting sp to do damage before meele.
Let's take ranged they miss most of hits and are better on melee than ranged in first levels

Point is its just simple examle of level 1 comparison i do agree that by level 2 without ES you have chain which makes faster AOE dps and even more temp hp, remaining levels only scales up combo warlock have which is better than any other options available to pick.

[AzureDragonas]

You and your sock furyexploiter really need to get back on your meds bro. Anyone who's ever played a warlock is laughing at this build concept. Why u hate bro? Why hate?

Anyone who played warlocks knows how broken they are, if you claim you played and feel opposite prob you need meds to fix that head of yours.

[slarden]

pick 1 warlock level pick ES aura, and from tained temp hp. Now pick single spell you can as False life and enjoy your
11(false life) + 13(aid potion) + 13(Feigned Health [let's assume you got 16 cha base + 4 pot and using 66% cha score]) = 37 temp hp as shield from lvl 1

So its a class which from level 1 can refresh 37+ hp offen, and have aoe which don't have restrictions to miss chance|saves|spell points

and to make it more clear on higher levels it gets worse. It's just exampe if you can provide who gets even better bonuses from lvl 1 without drawback feel free to share.

I know people are concerned about the dps loss warlocks are facing and I am not sure any dps loss was needed for epic levels, but the other benefits a warlock has are tremendous.

Achieving DCs is not hard to do in this game at the moment. You can go into ES focusing on enchant, necro, illusion, whatever and still hit your DCs while having the best self-healing in the game - temp hp shining through, brilliance, feigned health. The 2 SLAs are weaker, but still really solid free dps at heroic levels on top of great self healing, perma shield and some outstanding instakill, cc and charm spells.